Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Daoist Xu Shan of Qingcheng - the most powerful Jinyong expert no one knows about!

  1. #1
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,630

    Default Daoist Xu Shan of Qingcheng - the most powerful Jinyong expert no one knows about!

    Daoist Xu Shan is a minor character that appears in Ode to Gallantry. He was a master of Qingcheng Sect and said to be very famous, but in the context of the story he is mainly relevant for the manner in which he was died - insta-killed by the teenage Zhang San and Li Si after he declined their invitation to the Xiake Island. What makes him really impressive, however, is the way he declined the invitation - he took the two copper medallions, and in the space of a long laugh, melted the two copper medallions into scrap metal with his internal energy.

    最先接到铜牌请柬的,是川西青城派掌门人旭山道长。他长笑之下,将两块铜牌抓在手中,运用内力,将两块铜牌 熔成了两团废铜。这原是震烁当时的独步内功,原盼这两个狂妄少年知难而退。

    The first to receive the copper medallions of invitation was Daoist Xu Shan, the headmaster of Sichuan's Qingcheng Sect. He let out a long laugh, grabbed the two copper medallions, then activated his internal energy and melted the two copper medallions into two lumps of scrap metal. This was an awesome display of his outstanding internal energy, with the intention of letting these two unbridled youths know that it would be best for them to retreat.
    This is farkin' incredible. He didn't just break apart a copper item or even cut out a piece of copper/bronze from a cauldron like Jiumozhi - all very impressive feats in their own right - he freaking melted it!

    Ode to Gallantry/Xia Ke Xing is often viewed as an outlier in Jinyong novels in terms of its martial arts, and the more I re-read the Chinese the more I feel this is with good reason. Some of the feats in this novel are just absolutely stupendous and incongruous with the rest of the Jinyong canon. Someone as powerful as Xu Shan was killed by the teenage Zhang San and Li Si - who many years later were still just middling in terms of the Xiake Island disciples - who were far inferior to the two Island Lords - who were basically exhausted to death by trance-state Shi Potian.

    This novel is crazy.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    75

    Default

    The craziest part of the novel without doubt is the ending.
    I mean how is this even possible?
    I think SPW is also an outlier but its madness is not comparable to OTG

  3. #3
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Mount Olympus, sipping nectar and eating ambrosia
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    In the third edition he was the leader of Kongtong school instead of Qingcheng.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  4. #4
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    In the third edition he was the leader of Kongtong school instead of Qingcheng.
    I wonder why JY made that change. Too powerful for Qingcheng, which historically has had fairly scrub fighters? At least Kong Tong had the Seven Damages Fist...
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Mount Olympus, sipping nectar and eating ambrosia
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    I wonder why JY made that change. Too powerful for Qingcheng, which historically has had fairly scrub fighters? At least Kong Tong had the Seven Damages Fist...
    I agree with you, Ren Wo Xing.I think Jin Yong wanted to make Kongtong a more prominent and established martial arts school. In the second edition of DGSD, Murong Fu used hook techniques of the Tuoba Family when he fought Duan YU. In the third edition, he changed it to the hook techniques of Kongtong School. The change made sense with DGSD, not a lot of people got the Tuoba reference, and those who did thought it was pushing it. The mortal enemies of the Murongs, the Tuobas, became a martial arts family too. Really?

    Edition2: 慕容復左手鋼鉤疾鉤他後腦,這一招「大海撈針」,乃是北海拓跋氏「漁叟鉤法」中的一招厲害招數,系從深海鉤 魚的鉤法之中變化而來,的是既准且狠。

    However, I have a fan theory why Jin Yong changed Reverend Xushan’s affiliation. Apparently, Jin Yong was denied to enter the temple at Mount Qingcheng twice. So, I think this was his way of telling those stuck-up Taoist priests at Qingcheng:” It was just a novel. If you are going to be this way, I am going take away the only good thing I gave you ‘Reverend Xushan’. He is now Kongtong’s.”

    https://kknews.cc/zh-hk/culture/9zl6gbb.html
    Last edited by Athena; 08-01-21 at 06:59 AM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  6. #6
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,404

    Default

    Considering how XF's master needed to chop like a loser for dozens of strokes to even set wood alight (with a signature skill named after its ability to set wood alight!), melting copper with inner force is indeed at Sweeper Monk levels of supremacy.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    608

    Default

    I'm more curious to know what heinous crimes he committed. Contrary to popular Wulin belief, refusing the invitation to Xiake island wasn't an instant death penalty, but instead the messengers took the opportunity to 'reward the kindly, punish the wicked'. What we hear of is extreme 'punishing the wicked' for large swathes of Wulin, but very little in the way of 'reward the kindly' - the Wulin of the time must have been a moral cesspit (assuming that all the judgements were fair and accurate).

    How would the Shangqing temple have fared if they refused the invitation? Although their crude responses to Shi Potian after accidentally poisoning them indicates that they were not nearly as enlightened as they might think they were, they seemed decent enough as an organisation. The Xiake messengers were very polite when talking to Shi Qing (in contrast to those they wanted to punish), which seems to indicate that they thought well of him.

    What about the Xueshan sect? Bai Zizai (with his recent massacre of innocent students and doctors) would almost certainly be punished, but what about the rest of the organisation? Would their recent infighting be considered a mark against them? Li4 was contrite to Shi Xiaocui when she confronted him after badmouthing Xueshan sect, so it seems that she was in their good books at least.

  8. #8
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    However, I have a fan theory why Jin Yong changed Reverend Xushan’s affiliation. Apparently, Jin Yong was denied to enter the temple at Mount Qingcheng twice. So, I think this was his way of telling those stuck-up Taoist priests at Qingcheng:” It was just a novel. If you are going to be this way, I am going take away the only good thing I gave you ‘Reverend Xushan’. He is now Kongtong’s.”

    https://kknews.cc/zh-hk/culture/9zl6gbb.html
    Sadly, cannot access that link for some reason. However, for some anecdotes - my aunt's husband is a very prominent martial arts grandmaster figure in Sichuan, and he told us a story that supposedly when Jinyong visited Sichuan all those years ago, when he met privately with the local Sichuan wushu experts and masters, he privately apologized and said that he was a 'sinner to Sichuan' (四川的武术罪人) because of how negatively he portrayed Sichuanese experts throughout his canon; none of them were prominent save the infamous Yu Canghai. So it's also possible that he changed Reverend Xushan because the man died like a punk to a pair of teenagers, despite the insane internal energy prowess he displayed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    I'm more curious to know what heinous crimes he committed. Contrary to popular Wulin belief, refusing the invitation to Xiake island wasn't an instant death penalty, but instead the messengers took the opportunity to 'reward the kindly, punish the wicked'. What we hear of is extreme 'punishing the wicked' for large swathes of Wulin, but very little in the way of 'reward the kindly' - the Wulin of the time must have been a moral cesspit (assuming that all the judgements were fair and accurate).

    How would the Shangqing temple have fared if they refused the invitation? Although their crude responses to Shi Potian after accidentally poisoning them indicates that they were not nearly as enlightened as they might think they were, they seemed decent enough as an organisation. The Xiake messengers were very polite when talking to Shi Qing (in contrast to those they wanted to punish), which seems to indicate that they thought well of him.

    What about the Xueshan sect? Bai Zizai (with his recent massacre of innocent students and doctors) would almost certainly be punished, but what about the rest of the organisation? Would their recent infighting be considered a mark against them? Li4 was contrite to Shi Xiaocui when she confronted him after badmouthing Xueshan sect, so it seems that she was in their good books at least.
    My impression was that the disrespect shown to the Xiake Island WAS the sin that had to be punished; after all, he didn't just refuse, he actually destroyed the invitation medallions. The feeling I got was that this was their way of showing people, 'yeah, you do NOT do that shit'.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    My impression was that the disrespect shown to the Xiake Island WAS the sin that had to be punished; after all, he didn't just refuse, he actually destroyed the invitation medallions. The feeling I got was that this was their way of showing people, 'yeah, you do NOT do that shit'.
    That is certainly the impression that Shi Qing's telling of events gave. However, when they arrived at Xiake island, Island master Long asked:

    各位請仔細想一想,有那一個名門正派或是行俠仗義的幫會,是因為不接邀請銅牌而給俠客島誅滅了 的?

    Everyone think carefully for a moment, which virtuous sect or righteous association, was destroyed by Xiake island for refusing the invitation medallions?

    No one had an answer. Therefore:

    因此上,我們所殺之人,其實無一不是罪有應得

    Because of this, those people we killed, there was not one that did not deserve it.

    Somehow, for decades, everyone missed the fact that all those who were killed were complete scum!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-17-21, 05:20 PM
  2. How powerful was the martial arts expert...
    By tape in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 06-19-10, 10:35 AM
  3. Real Qingcheng paai
    By CFT in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-09, 09:39 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-27-06, 01:06 AM
  5. Most embarrassing entry by a powerful expert
    By PJ in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-11-06, 10:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •