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Thread: I just found out Canhe Zhi was named after。。。。

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Default I just found out Canhe Zhi was named after。。。。

    The Battle of Canhe Slope

    Well, I am assuming it is. Since the Murongs were involved and its the exact same characters for the skill and the battlefield.

    But it was a defeat for Later Yan, naming their skill after a defeat? Was there any backstory to this skill that I missed?
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    The Battle of Canhe Slope

    Well, I am assuming it is. Since the Murongs were involved and its the exact same characters for the skill and the battlefield.

    But it was a defeat for Later Yan, naming their skill after a defeat? Was there any backstory to this skill that I missed?
    It wouldn't be the only time that a defeat is held up as iconic for a faction. Spartans looked to Leonidas and Thermopylae. The French Foreign Legion celebrates Camerone day every year. Texans celebrate Alamo.

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    The Battle of Canhe Slope

    Well, I am assuming it is. Since the Murongs were involved and its the exact same characters for the skill and the battlefield.

    But it was a defeat for Later Yan, naming their skill after a defeat? Was there any backstory to this skill that I missed?

    That was the battle that led to demise of Murongs politically and militarily. They were defeated by the Tuoba clan [拓跋氏]. In Jin Yongs 2nd edition of DGSD, Murong Fu used a hook method from the Tuoba clan; however, in edition three he changed that to the Kongtong School. Most likely, because the reference to historical feud between the Murong clan and Tuoba clan was too obscure, and one sentence doesnt give it enough interest for people to look up. For those who look it up find it underwhelming and pushing the boundaries of believability. One clan of the Xianbei tribe turns from military power to a martial arts family, and the rival clan does it as well? Really? Furthermore, is Murong Fu knowing the hook technique vindication that in the end the Murongs prevailed over the Tuobas? Again, it was just too obscure.

    Edition2: 慕容復左手鋼鉤疾鉤他後腦,這一招「大海撈針」,乃是北海拓跋氏「漁叟鉤法」中的一招厲害招數 ,系從深海鉤 魚的鉤法之中變化而來,的是既准且狠。

    With that being said, the triumph of this feud still is in favour of the Tuobas in the Jin Yong universe, because after establishing the Northern Wei dynasty, the Tuobas renamed their family name to Yuan [元] to give them a more sophisticated and educated look. Why is the feud in favour of the Tuobas? Well, an obscure poet in the Jin Dynasty (金国)called Yuan Haowen 【元好问】a descendant of the renamed Tuobas wrote a poem, and this poem became a favorite for a particular character in ROCH, a particular bitter woman from the Ancient Tomb: Li Mochou. Indeed, it is that poem. So, the point still goes to the Tuobas/Yuans for being more famous in the Jin Yong universe.


    This post of mine is sooo geeky and nerdy.
    Last edited by Athena; 08-02-21 at 06:54 AM.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I need to ask (since DGSD '81 did not mention this martial art at all): how does one pronounce "Canhe" in Cantonese?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I need to ask (since DGSD '81 did not mention this martial art at all): how does one pronounce "Canhe" in Cantonese?
    I think it should be Chum/Cham Hup.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    It wouldn't be the only time that a defeat is held up as iconic for a faction. Spartans looked to Leonidas and Thermopylae. The French Foreign Legion celebrates Camerone day every year. Texans celebrate Alamo.
    Those defeats were a pyrrhic victories for the other side and arguably great strategic victories for the hugely outnumbered Spartans/French/Texans.

    The battle of Canhe was a total stomping of the Later Yan by the Tuoba Wei. And the Murong forces apparently outnumbered the Tuoba.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post

    With that being said, the triumph of this feud still is in favour of the Tuobas in the Jin Yong universe, because after establishing the Northern Wei dynasty, the Tuobas renamed their family name to Yuan [元] to give them a more sophisticated and educated look. Why is the feud in favour of the Tuobas? Well, an obscure poet in the Jin Dynasty (金国)called Yuan Haowen 【元好问】a descendant of the renamed Tuobas wrote a poem, and this poem became a favorite for a particular character in ROCH, a particular bitter woman from the Ancient Tomb: Li Mochou. Indeed, it is that poem. So, the point still goes to the Tuobas/Yuans for being more famous in the Jin Yong universe.


    This post of mine is sooo geeky and nerdy.
    Even without that reference to Yuan Haowen, I think the Tuoba's still win given how JY made Murong Fu such a loser.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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