Dugu Qiubai vs. Wang Chongyang+Lin Chaoying

[FeilongZ]

Wudang inner strength also not raw YD too HYS too yet HYS could match YG Sad Palm with his Finger Snap so not raw/abundant doesn't mean your power not good as your opponent in terms of quality and quantity since it's only different type of inner strength not about profoundly..

HYS's finger flick only temporary neutralized YG's powerful palms.

If YG decided to press on and keep sending wave after wave of the overbearing Sad Palms, most likely HYS would be in a huge disadvantage and would be defeated in a relatively short time.

[FeilongZ]

I think isn't strange at all since in terms of pureness and refinement his inner strength is really not pure and refine like GJ or YD and at that time LMC..

Same with Wuji.
Energy cultivation takes a lot of time (many years).

[Western Eccentric]

HYS's finger flick only temporary neutralized YG's powerful palms.

If YG decided to press on and keep sending wave after wave of the overbearing Sad Palms, most likely HYS would be in a huge disadvantage and would be defeated in a relatively short time.

Well I am not sure about it HYS might be lose but not by "power" just like JLFW but by "technique" of Sad Palm and his old age..

[Western Eccentric]

Same with Wuji.
Energy cultivation takes a lot of time (many years).

Is not about time to refine and purify your inner strength but mostly about the method of cultivate especially 9 Yin or 9 Yang or Yijin Jing you could cultivate as well as refine your inner strength in short time if you smart enough and learn the manual properly..

[Ken Cheng]

Same with Wuji.
Energy cultivation takes a lot of time (many years).

Unless one is the beneficiary of weird shortcuts.

[Western Eccentric]

Yeeep I think is normally to cultivate and refine advance inner power for at least 10-20 years from special manual like 9 Yin or 9 Yang..

[Ken Cheng]

Yeeep I think is normally to cultivate and refine advance inner power for at least 10-20 years from special manual like 9 Yin or 9 Yang..

Plus weird doodas such as the snake organs (that Yeung Gor consumed) and the Can't Say Monk's bag (that greatly amplified Cheung Mo Gei's 9 Yeung power).

[Western Eccentric]

Plus weird doodas such as the snake organs (that Yeung Gor consumed) and the Can't Say Monk's bag (that greatly amplified Cheung Mo Gei's 9 Yeung power).

I mean for normal people like Jueyuan is not strange at all for him to cultivate his profound inner strength from advance manual skill (9 Yang) for more than 20 years it's different with YG and Wuji though their inner strength comparable with Jueyuan but in terms of pureness and refinement Jueyuan much better than them since he learn the manual and cultivate his power "properly" (by meditation) that why when YD heard YG roar he thought that though YG roar was very robust and powerful but is not "orthodox"/pure yang..

[FeilongZ]

Plus weird doodas such as the snake organs (that Yeung Gor consumed) and the Can't Say Monk's bag (that greatly amplified Cheung Mo Gei's 9 Yeung power).

These shortcuts are like cheat codes or extremely rare items that you would find in RPG games.
Jinyong sure could make things exciting and at times surprising during the novel's storyline like a twist of events that dramatically improves a protagonist's martial arts.

[Western Eccentric]

In fact YG super-human strength not only come from snake organ but also by DGQB training method in the other word the combination of snake organ and DGQB method allowed YG to rapidly improve his internal strength until almost no equal under heaven..

[FeilongZ]

I will get back to the thread's topic.

1.
Since many posters think that Dugu would win against the couple, how many stances would it take for Dugu to be victorious?

2.
Will Dugu use the HIS and or what strategy would he use to quickly win?

3. Based on WuxiaMaster's official ranking, DGKB is in the "Legendary Level" or tier, same as the Sweeper monk.

-How do we thing his internal is compared to a Great, in percentage or point system?

-His ultimate external arts (techniques)
compared to a Great, in percentage or point system?

[FeilongZ]

In fact YG super-human strength not only come from snake organ but also by DGQB training method in the other word the combination of snake organ and DGQB method allowed YG to rapidly improve his internal strength until almost no equal under heaven..

I used to think that the snake gallbadders helped opened up his meridians, so he could effective utilize his internal at its max.
Then, the waterfall training helped him further increase his strength and internal.

[Western Eccentric]

I used to think that the snake gallbadders helped opened up his meridians, so he could effective utilize his internal at its max.
Then, the waterfall training helped him further increase his strength and internal.

First the snake organ helping YG to recover from his wound due lose arm and second I think snake organ give YG almost "unlimited" stamina and endurance that why he could train DGQB method with ease like fight against waterfall and ocean wave I mean snake organ allowed YG to develop his physical strength until maximum level..

[Western Eccentric]

I will get back to the thread's topic.

1.
Since many posters think that Dugu would win against the couple, how many stances would it take for Dugu to be victorious?

2.
Will Dugu use the HIS and or what strategy would he use to quickly win?

3. Based on WuxiaMaster's official ranking, DGKB is in the "Legendary Level" or tier, same as the Sweeper monk.

-How do we thing his internal is compared to a Great, in percentage or point system?

-His ultimate external arts (techniques)
compared to a Great, in percentage or point system?

1. Depends on what technique DGQB use HIS wooden sword or no sword

2. With HIS I think he could win around 50 stances or less

3. I think DGQB internal at least 2-3x higher than YG/Greats and his external skills of course much better than Greats probably without equal in JY universe

[Ken Cheng]

Maybe Dook Goo Kau Bai will deliberately drag the fight out longer just to carefully examine the Double Sword Technique in detail. I imagine it would intrigue him.

[Western Eccentric]

Maybe Dook Goo Kau Bai will deliberately drag the fight out longer just to carefully examine the Double Sword Technique in detail. I imagine it would intrigue him.

Possibly since he never meet someone as strong as WCY and LCY before..

[Athena]

Personally, this is an impossible scenario. I am pointing at how Wang Chongyang and Lin Chaoying had love but no emotional coordination with one another. That is going to hinder the cohesiveness of the Swordplay of the Jade Maiden. On top of that, there is a discrepancy in martial arts level between the two. Lin Chaoying, at her peak, is not the same as Wang Chongyang at his height.

In history, Wang Chongyang died at the age of 58. In the Jin Yong universe, we don’t know how old Wang Chongyang was when he died. Given the rich background Jin Yong have Wang Chongyang, I always deduced that he must have been late 70s or early 80s when he died. There is no actual proof of that, and this is mere conjecture from my side.

In the novel, we know that Lin Chaoying created and then (in edition 3) mastered her own art, but shortly died afterwards. Wang Chongyang secretly entered the tomb to pay respects and mourn the love of his life. Then, he saw the carvings on the walls, and his face turned white. He, then, went back to ponder and contemplate his martial arts for three years. He tried to device a new set of martial arts to counter Lin Chaoying’s art of Jade Maiden. He had some initial success, but failed to make a comprehensive and cohesive new set. He conceded that Lin Chaoying was more talented and probably before her death, Lin Chaoying, had finally bridged that gap that always existed between Wang Chongyang and herself (and maybe surpassed him).

After 15 to 20 years, when he won the first tournament of Huashan, he had the chance to read the Jiujin manual out of curiosity. After contemplating and pondering he understood that mastering Jiuyin would be the key in defeating the art of Jade Maiden, and he laughed heartily realising this. I have to admit that Jin Yong’s description of Wang Chongyang’s understanding Jiuyin can be interpreted differently:

1) He understood that if a person learns this, he/she/they would be superior and not fear Jiuyin, but Wang Chongyang did not ‘learn, study or master’ it.

2) He did understand and master the necessary the essence of Jiuyin because Jiuyin is so much aligned with his own Taoist Quanzhen martial arts.

他武功當時已是天下第一，九陰真經中所載的諸般秘奧精義，一經過目，思索上十余日，即已全盤豁然領悟，當下 仰天長笑，回到活死人墓，在全墓最隱秘的地下石室頂上刻下九陰真經的要旨，并一一指出破除玉女心經之法。( Chapter 7)

I lean towards interpretation two. With that said, Wang Chongyang had at least 15 to 20 years to bridge any gap that Lin Chaoying had bridged or surpassed Wang Chongyang all those years ago. So, both their peaks are different. It is similar to saying that Huang Yaoshi and Yideng are better post-16 years than Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng at their final duel at Huashan. Yes, Huang Yaoshi and Yideng had 17 years more to improve their internal energy, mastery of their arts.

In short:
Originally, Wang Chongyang was better than Lin Chaoying. Then, Wang Chongyang built a resistance to the Jin Empire, and he was pre-occupied with the logistics or the resistance. Lin Chaoying got a chance to improve and became better than Wang Chongyang. After the resistance was quelled by the Jin Empire, Wang Chongyang built the Ancient Tomb and resided for years refusing to see anyone. In that time, he improved his martial arts, while, Lin Chaoying (probably due to a broken heart) fell seriously ill several time, so he became better again than her again. Then, the infamous ‘breakup’ between the two at Mount Zhongnan, when Wang was beter than her. She got the tomb and created her ‘bane’ on Quanzhen martial arts, and mastered it. Probably she got ahead again, but she died shortly afterwards. Wang Chongyang had 15 to 20 years more time to train; obviously he improved again. Then, he got the Jiuyin boost and the Yiyang Zhi boost, but he also died shortly after mastering those skills.
They were never in synch emotionally, but they were also not in synch martial arts-wise; unlike Yang Guo and the Little Dragon Girl.

So, I think individually they might give Dugu Qiubai an interesting fight or challenge. However, there is no ‘right time/moment’ for them to use the Swordplay of the Jade Maiden, as they were both not in synch with one another.

[Dirt]

How do we know LCY internal was far above XLN's?
Because she slept on the ice bed longer, due to her age?

Time. Hong Qi and Yideng lucked out with 9Yin to recover their inner power. It took OYF 5 years closeted off from the world to regain his inner power after WCY use Xian Tian Gong+Yiyang Zhi to wipe it away.

Time and hard work is a hallmark for success in Jin Yong's world. Well, except for QHBD which was fast.

[Ken Cheng]

HYS's finger flick only temporary neutralized YG's powerful palms.

Neutralizing is neutralizing. What's this "temporary" business?

If YG decided to press on and keep sending wave after wave of the overbearing Sad Palms, most likely HYS would be in a huge disadvantage and would be defeated in a relatively short time.

East Heretic Wong Yerk See isn't stupid old Golden Wheel Monk. Unlike everybody's favorite Mongolian imperial master, Wong Yerk See isn't the kind of idiot who keeps doubling down on the same thing once he sees that a strategy is starting to lose its efficacy. Remember that we're talking about the man of a thousand tricks...someone even smarter, more knowledgeable, and more experienced than his daughter Wong Yung, who was notorious throughout wulin for those attributes. If Divine Finger Snap isn't working out, Wong Yerk See switches tactics and tries any one of dozens and dozens of other methods at his fingertips. In his own way, Wong Yerk See is the most dangerous Great. He kind of reminds me of Batman in the Justice League: he's not as powerful as the others, but his resourcefulness and seemingly endless bag of tricks causes his more powerful peers to be wary of him.

[Dirt]

Neutralizing is neutralizing. What's this "temporary" business?



East Heretic Wong Yerk See isn't stupid old Golden Wheel Monk. Unlike everybody's favorite Mongolian imperial master, Wong Yerk See isn't the kind of idiot who keeps doubling down on the same thing once he sees that a strategy is starting to lose its efficacy. Remember that we're talking about the man of a thousand tricks...someone even smarter, more knowledgeable, and more experienced than his daughter Wong Yung, who was notorious throughout wulin for those attributes. If Divine Finger Snap isn't working out, Wong Yerk See switches tactics and tries any one of dozens and dozens of other methods at his fingertips. In his own way, Wong Yerk See is the most dangerous Great. He kind of reminds me of Batman in the Justice League: he's not as powerful as the others, but his resourcefulness and seemingly endless bag of tricks causes his more powerful peers to be wary of him.

The same can be said of Hong Qi and Ouyang Feng when they were fighting each other on Peach Blossom Island in LOCH. They both kept coming up with new moves to try to outwit each other in their fight.