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Thread: Best and Worst Shifus

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    Default Best and Worst Shifus

    If you are someone venturing out in the Wuxia World and learning martial arts (say from 16 years old) for the first time, who are some of the best Shifus to train under? And who would be some of the worst?


    Consider:
    1. Martial arts skillset/level (potential highest level you can attain training under him. Can he protect you from danger?)
    2. How good a teacher he/she is (He might not be willing, patient or sane enough to teach you, such as ZBT)
    3. His/her character (Chance of surviving under his tutelage/potentially getting killed)
    4. His schedule (How busy is he? Is he occupied with other stuff?)
    5. His network (How respectable is he in the pugilist world?)


    That's all I can think of right now, but feel free to add any other factors you might consider.


    If you can pick anyone to understudy or join his/her sect, who would be the best and worst choices?


    Here are some of my candidates.


    Worst Candidates
    1. Yue Bu Qun - Mediocore martial arts and potentially getting used as sacrifical scapegoat
    2. Ding Chun Qiu - Might be randomly grabbed during one of his fight and turned into poison fodder.
    3. Huang Yao Shi - Need to survive his mood swings/risks of becoming handicapped.


    Best Candidates
    1. Zhang Sanfeng / Yideng - Benevolent, respectable, powerful, loads of free time to teach you.
    2. Golden Wheel Monk - Controversial, but to me he seems like a good teacher. His students were all actually pretty strong for their age.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 09-26-21 at 12:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    If you are someone venturing out in the Wuxia World and learning martial arts (say from 16 years old) for the first time, who are some of the best Shifus to train under? And who would be some of the worst?


    Consider:
    1. Martial arts skillset/level (potential highest level you can attain training under him. Can he protect you from danger?)
    2. How good a teacher he/she is (He might not be willing, patient or sane enough to teach you, such as ZBT)
    3. His/her character (Chance of surviving under his tutelage/potentially getting killed)
    4. His schedule (How busy is he? Is he occupied with other stuff?)
    5. His network (How respectable is he in the pugilist world?)


    That's all I can think of right now, but feel free to add any other factors you might consider.


    If you can pick anyone to understudy or join his/her sect, who would be the best and worst choices?


    Here are some of my candidates.


    Worst Candidates
    1. Yue Bu Qun - Mediocore martial arts and potentially getting used as sacrifical scapegoat
    2. Ding Chun Qiu - Might be randomly grabbed during one of his fight and turned into poison fodder.
    3. Huang Yao Shi - Need to survive his mood swings/risks of becoming handicapped.


    Best Candidates
    1. Zhang Sanfeng / Yideng - Benevolent, respectable, powerful, loads of free time to teach you.
    2. Golden Wheel Monk - Controversial, but to me he seems like a good teacher. His students were all actually pretty strong for their age.
    You forget H7G he is the best coach in Trilogy IMHO..

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    H7G is a good master but he benefits too much from two main characters. I don't think he does anything special. Without the main character boost, his students/followers are easily the worst among the 5 Greats'. I know it's a bit unfair to exclude his 2 best students and his followers are not truly his students but the main thing is he lucks into them while the other Greats have to recruit theirs.

    For this topic to be fair, we should exclude main characters as students.

    My list:
    1. Wang Chongyang. ZBT is effectively his student and the 7 QZ Taoists aren't too bad. His arts also indirectly elevate GJ to Great level.

    2. Zhang Sanfeng. His students all love him to death and they are all righteous people.

    I'm drawing blanks after those 2. Maybe Jue Yuan?

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    Yideng and Z3F are probably the best all-round teachers, but you don't get much of a social life studying with them.
    H7G & ZBT are more fun and H7G especially will stick up for you but you never know when they are going to just get bored and disappear.

    My ideal teacher is the same as every heterosexual man: Xiaolongnü

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    If you are someone venturing out in the Wuxia World and learning martial arts (say from 16 years old) for the first time, who are some of the best Shifus to train under? And who would be some of the worst?


    Consider:
    1. Martial arts skillset/level (potential highest level you can attain training under him. Can he protect you from danger?)
    2. How good a teacher he/she is (He might not be willing, patient or sane enough to teach you, such as ZBT)
    3. His/her character (Chance of surviving under his tutelage/potentially getting killed)
    4. His schedule (How busy is he? Is he occupied with other stuff?)
    5. His network (How respectable is he in the pugilist world?)


    That's all I can think of right now, but feel free to add any other factors you might consider.


    If you can pick anyone to understudy or join his/her sect, who would be the best and worst choices?


    Here are some of my candidates.


    Worst Candidates
    1. Yue Bu Qun - Mediocore martial arts and potentially getting used as sacrifical scapegoat
    2. Ding Chun Qiu - Might be randomly grabbed during one of his fight and turned into poison fodder.
    3. Huang Yao Shi - Need to survive his mood swings/risks of becoming handicapped.


    Best Candidates
    1. Zhang Sanfeng / Yideng - Benevolent, respectable, powerful, loads of free time to teach you.
    2. Golden Wheel Monk - Controversial, but to me he seems like a good teacher. His students were all actually pretty strong for their age.
    I'd put Huang Yaoshi in both lists. If he's in a reasonable mood, which is nearly all the time, then he'll teach you to become proficient in both martial and literary arts. If he's in a sufficiently bad mood, which only happened once, but which happened hard, then you are crippled.

    Zhang Sanfeng jumps out to be included, but I agree about GWM as well.

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    If anything, HYS is the best teacher anyone can ask for.

    Although his disciples were all crippled by him, they all still had deep respect and loved him.

    Chen Xuanfeng and Mei Chaofeng felt remorseful, not just for causing what happened to their fellow disciples, but also to HYS.

    Even Feng Mofeng who spent only a little time with HYS, had a very deep amount of respect and love for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    If anything, HYS is the best teacher anyone can ask for.

    Although his disciples were all crippled by him, they all still had deep respect and loved him.

    Chen Xuanfeng and Mei Chaofeng felt remorseful, not just for causing what happened to their fellow disciples, but also to HYS.

    Even Feng Mofeng who spent only a little time with HYS, had a very deep amount of respect and love for him.
    For all these to happen, think about how well HYS must have changed their lives drastically for them to love him despite what he has done to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    If anything, HYS is the best teacher anyone can ask for.

    Although his disciples were all crippled by him, they all still had deep respect and loved him.

    Chen Xuanfeng and Mei Chaofeng felt remorseful, not just for causing what happened to their fellow disciples, but also to HYS.

    Even Feng Mofeng who spent only a little time with HYS, had a very deep amount of respect and love for him.
    Hmm, wouldnt WYZ be better? He taught so much crap to Su Xinghe that the 1/8th (non kungfu) Su passed on to Xue was enough to make him Divine Doctor Xue.

    And its his disciple who crippled him! Not the other way around.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Hmm, wouldnt WYZ be better? He taught so much crap to Su Xinghe that the 1/8th (non kungfu) Su passed on to Xue was enough to make him Divine Doctor Xue.

    And its his disciple who crippled him! Not the other way around.
    I had no idea that Dr. Sit's medical knowledge and skills were imparted to him by Mo Ngai Tze. I thought Sit learned martial arts from Mo (then again, did we EVER see Dr. Sit fight?) and acquired his medical skills separately from his family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    If anything, HYS is the best teacher anyone can ask for.

    Although his disciples were all crippled by him, they all still had deep respect and loved him.

    Chen Xuanfeng and Mei Chaofeng felt remorseful, not just for causing what happened to their fellow disciples, but also to HYS.

    Even Feng Mofeng who spent only a little time with HYS, had a very deep amount of respect and love for him.
    Without the crippling thing, HYS would be on the top list, too. However, that one incident was just too much. Besides, it didn't seem like he went out of his way to bring them back home once he realized his mistake. His prize and ego were just too much, which is not a good trait for a master.

    Also, loving one's master was nothing really special during those times. YBQ f'ed LHC over so many times and even tried to kill him but in the end he still couldn't hurt YBQ, only because YBQ once scooped him up from the streets. YD, WCY, GWM, ZSF etc. all get similar love from their students.

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    I really like this topic. To me there are several teachers that very difficult to like:

    1) Yue Buqun sacrificed his family for power. He chose power over a loving family. He framed the disciple who loved him like a father of a crime he, himself committed. He is beyond hope.

    2) Cheng Kun/Yuan Zhen loved Xie Xun as a son (both Xie Xun and Cheng Kun) admitted that they were like father and son. However, Cheng Kun used Xie Xun as a tool for revenge and later on for a misguided attempt for power. He is also beyond hope.

    3) Wang Jiantong….. How could you write that ambiguous letter? Xiao Feng loved him like a father. Yet, Wang Jiantong was willing to write a letter which could have been misinterpreted as it did.

    4) Ding Chunqiu treats his disciples as disposable toxic weapons. Ding Chunqiu obviously is a narcissist.

    5) Ke Zhen’E is not a horrible teacher or master, but he had some bad moments. He almost killed Guo Jing because he thought Guo Jing was training with Mei Chaofeng, whereas he was actually learning from Ma Yu. The second time he thought that Guo Jing had sided with Huang Yaoshi, and gave this self righteous speech about asking Heaven to restore his eye sight so he could see the ingrate that Guo Jing supposedly was. Generally, he is a good person, but his temper really shows.

    6) Huang Yaoshi did cripple his students, and he had a tendency to blame others for his misfortune. I think Huang Yaoshi is a very compelling and charismatic character, and his students loved him to bits. However, as a teacher, he did mess up.

    7) Li Mochou used Hong Lingbo as a stepping stone without hesitation. She is…. not a nice person.

    8) Miejue is horrible as a teacher. She proclaims to love Ji Xiaofu and Zhou Zhiruo, but has no qualms in manipulating them for her own self righteous goals. It is because of her that E Mei became such a toxic place. Readers could read how she treated her disciples on the road to the Peak of Brightness. Jingxu, her third disciple, was bitten to death by Wei Yixiao. The other students started weeping seeing Jingxu’s body, Miejue coldly told them to stop crying and just bury the body. That is cold.

    9) Bai Zizai is one difficult old bastard. His arrogance, bordering mania, is unbelievable, and that was even before his wife left him. He is the grandfather that no one wants to visit, and if you did visit, you would go:” I can see why grandma left.”

    10) The character who is in Sword Stained with Royal Blood and Duke of Mount Deer, Gui Xinshu is a horrible teacher. His disciple Mei Jianhe was so arrogant and his female disciple, Sun Zhongjun, just cuts off someone’s arm. She is even worse than Guo Fu.

    11) Princess Changping/Jiunan, she was not nice A Ke. She taught A Ke martial arts hoping that she would kill Wu Sangui, thinking that he was the father.

    12) Hua Hui/Wa’er Laqi, the teacher of Li Wenxiu in White Horse. He tried to force his disciple in committing mass murder.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    for me,
    best: i would choose ouyang Feng, because his rule is to receives only one disciple, so he would give 100% to his disciple
    worst: Qi Zhangfa, that's a one kind of teacher that teach you a fake martial arts and even try to kill you? he even didnt care his own daughter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post

    3) Wang Jiantong….. How could you write that ambiguous letter? Xiao Feng loved him like a father. Yet, Wang Jiantong was willing to write a letter which could have been misinterpreted as it did.
    This is kind of mitigated because he had the pressure of being responsible for indirectly causing the downfall of the country if Xiao Feng did turn rogue or found out about his background and switched loyalty. He was putting country first so I don't blame him too much for that. And Ma Dayuan was loyal and honest too, just that the Kang Min plot point kicked in.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I had no idea that Dr. Sit's medical knowledge and skills were imparted to him by Mo Ngai Tze. I thought Sit learned martial arts from Mo (then again, did we EVER see Dr. Sit fight?) and acquired his medical skills separately from his family.
    Su learned stuff like chess, calligraphy and other arts from WYZ besides kung-fu. Bits of it passed on to his disciples the 8 Hangu Friends. WYZ didnt teach Xue directly (I am not sure if they even got to meet face to face!).

    What I mean is that Su got part of the knowledge from WYZ and whatever further filtered down to Xue, was enough to make him The Divine Doctor.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    @ a_tumiwa Qi Changfa is horrible. I sometimes block out A Deadly Secret because the story is so depressing. What is your opinion of Mei Niansheng? He was good to Ding Dian, but he taught his students all these useless variations of those techniques, and they consciously and subconsciously passed it on to their students? Ding Dian’s opinion of Mei Niansheng is different from Di Yun. So, as a reader, I don’t know what to think of him.

    @CC You are right. However, it does show that in DGSD’s universe blood relations have a higher priority than adopted ones.

    I also completely forgot about Zhao Zhijing. That man is a personification of a bully.
    Last edited by Athena; 09-30-21 at 03:32 AM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post

    @CC You are right. However, it does show that in DGSD’s universe blood relations have a higher priority than adopted ones.
    There is one exception I guess, Duan Yu and Yanqing.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Hmm, wouldnt WYZ be better? He taught so much crap to Su Xinghe that the 1/8th (non kungfu) Su passed on to Xue was enough to make him Divine Doctor Xue.

    And its his disciple who crippled him! Not the other way around.
    HYS' medicinal knowledge might be able to match Doctor Xue imo. The difference was that one proactively sought to become famous for his medicinal knowledge while the other didn't cared.

    HYS' Jade pills were able to treat most ailments and relieve all ailments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    @ a_tumiwa Qi Changfa is horrible. I sometimes block out A Deadly Secret because the story is so depressing. What is your opinion of Mei Niansheng? He was good to Ding Dian, but he taught his students all these useless variations of those techniques, and they consciously and subconsciously passed it on to their students? Ding Dian’s opinion of Mei Niansheng is different from Di Yun. So, as a reader, I don’t know what to think of him.


    my view for Mei niansheng is positive, he didnt want to teach his disciples because he knew all his disciples had evil intention and wicked nature. i think nearly all A deadly secret characters are evil or at least half-evil, even Ding Dian did so much bullies at Di Yun to the stage of the edge of the cliff. So i consider Mei niansheng is one of the good person in an evil (a deadly secret) world.
    Last edited by a_tumiwa; 10-02-21 at 04:08 AM.

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