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Thread: Why Sunflower Manual?

  1. #21
    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    These are all we know about the Sun Flower manual:
    - the original and complete version died with the Fujian Shaolin monk. No one else has the complete version.
    - it must have both parts about internal (qi) and technique (sword). The technique part is not necessarily purely sword.
    - it's even more probable that it WASN'T created for the sword, since eunuchs typically couldn't carry swords around. The needle would even be a more suitable for them.
    - the technique part, without being powered by its qi part, is completely useless. This is very different from Dugu 9 sword. And you cannot use other qi to power its technique. It must be Sun Flower qi. No other ways.
    - there was never any record about the qi part being used alone like 9Yang or Yijinjing or used with other techniques. So it's probably only compatible with its own technique.
    - that makes Sun Flower the number one art, in terms of internal and technique synergy. No othe arts in JY's universe are this tightly coupled.
    - DFBB's version should be more "intact" than the Pixie sword manual, because the latter went through another layer of interpretation.
    - still, considering how strong DFBB was, the original Sun Flower manual must be insane. That eunuch should easily be in the 90-95 range.
    This is a really good summary.

    My memory is also a little foggy on the history/lineage of BXJF and HHBD. Can we get a summary of who stole it form whole and who thought who was wrong en route to what those techniques are by the time of the novel?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    This is a really good summary.

    My memory is also a little foggy on the history/lineage of BXJF and HHBD. Can we get a summary of who stole it form whole and who thought who was wrong en route to what those techniques are by the time of the novel?
    Here's the short version:

    - the original version was created by the eunuch hundreds of years ago (before XAJH).
    - about 100+ years ago, it somehow ended up in the hands of Hongye, a Fujian Shaolin's monk. We don't know who stole it from where. We also don't know if there were any other practitioners besides the original eunuch.
    - 2 Huashan brothers tried to steal it from Shaolin but they didn't get to copy the original. Instead, they tried to memorize 2 halves separately and later tried to piece them back together. Their disagreement when piecing the halves back caused the qi/sword rift in Huashan.
    - Hongye's disciple was sent to Huashan. He ended up studying QHBD together with the Huashan brother. He later created BXJF from his own interpretation of QHBD and changed his name to Lin Yuantu. He wrote down BXJF and passed it down to his son and later on his grandson, Lin Pingzhi.
    - 10 Sun Moon elders stole the (bastardized) QHBD from the Huashan brothers. This version was passed down to RWX and then DFBB
    - Hongye, the HS brothers and 10 Sun Moon Elders all died, tying up all the loose ends.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think Bixie Manual pure "technique" without internal part at all since if the manual have internal art it would be like ZZR evil 9 Yin though he only learn it for less than 1 year like LPZ she is still have "yin" internal basis that why Wuji wrongly think ZZR 9 Yin internal base as Emei "secret" technique so logically LPZ should be have good internal after he learn Bixie Manual..
    He had but not that much
    But
    It is good to know that rules in other JY universe mostly don't work in SPW.This is one of them.9 Yin is a separate inner power manual and you can use it with any other martial art.Actually in other JY universe the protagonist or antagonist learn fighting arts and inner power arts separately for example GJ
    He learned 9 yin and 18DSP separately.He could use 9 Yin with other martial art like QZ's martial arts or he could use 18DSP with another inner power technique like XF or HQG.But in sunflower manual case we have a unique type of inner power part that create to use for sword part of manual.We can not separate sunflower to a specific Sword or inner power part because they are useless without each other
    YS and CZ didn't learn sunflower because of this and LZN marital arts was from sword part but they were useless and wrong because he didn't have inner power requirement

    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    These are all we know about the Sun Flower manual:
    - the original and complete version died with the Fujian Shaolin monk. No one else has the complete version.
    - it must have both parts about internal (qi) and technique (sword). The technique part is not necessarily purely sword.
    - it's even more probable that it WASN'T created for the sword, since eunuchs typically couldn't carry swords around. The needle would even be a more suitable for them.
    - the technique part, without being powered by its qi part, is completely useless. This is very different from Dugu 9 sword. And you cannot use other qi to power its technique. It must be Sun Flower qi. No other ways.
    - there was never any record about the qi part being used alone like 9Yang or Yijinjing or used with other techniques. So it's probably only compatible with its own technique.
    - that makes Sun Flower the number one art, in terms of internal and technique synergy. No othe arts in JY's universe are this tightly coupled.
    - DFBB's version should be more "intact" than the Pixie sword manual, because the latter went through another layer of interpretation.
    - still, considering how strong DFBB was, the original Sun Flower manual must be insane. That eunuch should easily be in the 90-95 range.
    Great !

    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    Here's the short version:

    - the original version was created by the eunuch hundreds of years ago (before XAJH).
    - about 100+ years ago, it somehow ended up in the hands of Hongye, a Fujian Shaolin's monk. We don't know who stole it from where. We also don't know if there were any other practitioners besides the original eunuch.
    - 2 Huashan brothers tried to steal it from Shaolin but they didn't get to copy the original. Instead, they tried to memorize 2 halves separately and later tried to piece them back together. Their disagreement when piecing the halves back caused the qi/sword rift in Huashan.
    - Hongye's disciple was sent to Huashan. He ended up studying QHBD together with the Huashan brother. He later created BXJF from his own interpretation of QHBD and changed his name to Lin Yuantu. He wrote down BXJF and passed it down to his son and later on his grandson, Lin Pingzhi.
    - 10 Sun Moon elders stole the (bastardized) QHBD from the Huashan brothers. This version was passed down to RWX and then DFBB
    - Hongye, the HS brothers and 10 Sun Moon Elders all died, tying up all the loose ends.
    Some correction
    LYT some how merged sunflower from those two brothers words.This merge result was ERSA
    LYT's grandson was LZN and his great grandson is LPZ

  4. #24
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    He had but not that much
    But
    It is good to know that rules in other JY universe mostly don't work in SPW.This is one of them.9 Yin is a separate inner power manual and you can use it with any other martial art.Actually in other JY universe the protagonist or antagonist learn fighting arts and inner power arts separately for example GJ
    He learned 9 yin and 18DSP separately.He could use 9 Yin with other martial art like QZ's martial arts or he could use 18DSP with another inner power technique like XF or HQG.But in sunflower manual case we have a unique type of inner power part that create to use for sword part of manual.We can not separate sunflower to a specific Sword or inner power part because they are useless without each other
    YS and CZ didn't learn sunflower because of this and LZN marital arts was from sword part but they were useless and wrong because he didn't have inner power requirement

    ....

    Well so you mean LPZ has Bixie "inner part" too just like ZZR with her 9 Yin White Bone Claw or perhaps "loosing" his balls make someone "automatically" learn Bixie internal part..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well so you mean LPZ has Bixie "inner part" too just like ZZR with her 9 Yin White Bone Claw or perhaps "loosing" his balls make someone "automatically" learn Bixie internal part..
    In chapter 35 LPZ told YLS that
    "Even though my father's swordplay was no good, it was only because he didn't study it enough. His internal energy was weak, and his attainment of the sword art was also poor. But the Evil Resisting Sword Art that he taught me, the foundation was wrong, and from the beginning to the end, it wasn't right."
    and later
    "To practice this Evil Resisting Sword Art, you must start with the internal energy first. If you don't castrate yourself, once you practice it, you'll immediately feel like you're on fire, fire deviate, and die."

  6. #26
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    When you think about it, elite arts in SPW are powerful, but kind of lame. They come with so many strings attached.

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    Inner strength is required to speed up pixie sword and to gain this inner strength, you need to castrate or else you'll fire deviate.

    The 72 strokes are just ordinary & LPZ & his father learnt the 72 strokes, but was missing the speed part. LYT would surprise his opponents by speeding up at certain parts and taking them out.
    Last edited by Stance; 10-18-21 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Inner strength is required to speed up pixie sword and to gain this inner strength, you need to castrate or else you'll fire deviate.

    The 72 strokes are just ordinary & LPZ & his father learnt the 72 strokes, but was missing the speed part. LYT would surprise his opponents by speeding up at certain parts and taking them out.
    If Bixie stances was just "ordinary" then logically an elite fighters/swordsmen would easily defeat Bixie Manual user like YBQ or LPZ or LYT look at XLN (post L/R Hand Skill) if her Jade Maiden Sword was "ordinary" she wouldn't lasted more than 💯 stances against JLFW or GJ or HYS..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    If Bixie stances was just "ordinary" then logically an elite fighters/swordsmen would easily defeat Bixie Manual user like YBQ or LPZ or LYT look at XLN (post L/R Hand Skill) if her Jade Maiden Sword was "ordinary" she wouldn't lasted more than 💯 stances against JLFW or GJ or HYS..
    Each of the stances was just basic moves. It was the speed of it that matter. LHC was able to see the openings, but couldn't counter it, due to the speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Each of the stances was just basic moves. It was the speed of it that matter. LHC was able to see the openings, but couldn't counter it, due to the speed.
    LHC need at least 200 stances to figure out YBQ "flaw" so Bixie stances isn't ordinary at all JY even said only DGQB sword art could beat Sunflower/Bixie..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    LHC need at least 200 stances to figure out YBQ "flaw" so Bixie stances isn't ordinary at all JY even said only DGQB sword art could beat Sunflower/Bixie..
    Was that because the stances are complex or because the moves where too fast and he had to see it afew times before he could figure it out?

    There was only 72 stances and YBQ would had to repeat them, which gave LHC an opportunity to see them again and again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Was that because the stances are complex or because the moves where too fast and he had to see it afew times before he could figure it out?

    There was only 72 stances and YBQ would had to repeat them, which gave LHC an opportunity to see them again and again.
    But if LHC didn't have DG9S did you think he still could "figure out" YBQ Bixie Sword or could someone like Priest Chongxu figure out YBQ "flaw" and beat him with his Tai Chi sword..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    But if LHC didn't have DG9S did you think he still could "figure out" YBQ Bixie Sword or could someone like Priest Chongxu figure out YBQ "flaw" and beat him with his Tai Chi sword..
    Tai chi sword is too slow 🤣

    Ok i found this, looks like there was some conplex moves in the mix.

    https://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthr...=1#post1155154

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Tai chi sword is too slow 🤣


    Ok i found this, looks like there was some conplex moves in the mix.

    https://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthr...=1#post1155154
    Well I just want to say without DG9S could someone figure out DFBB or YBQ "flaws" since JY openly admit that only DG9S could beat Sunflower Manual (which still depends on the users of course)..

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Tai chi sword is too slow 🤣
    Tai Chi Sword Technique might appear slow, but it seldom loses to faster techniques.

  16. #36
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    Quick note - it is highly likely that Lin Yuantu's version of the PXJF is superior to DFBB's copy of the Sunflower Script.

    The reason is simple - the Sunflower Script we see in the novel was 'created' in Huashan based on Lin Yuantu's "casual explanations" of the two parts that Yue Su and Cai Zifeng stole from Shaolin, whereas the Evil-Resisting Swordplay is basically Lin Yuantu's full, true personal interpretation of what Yue Su and Cai Zifeng showed him.

    In other words, while DFBB's 'Sunflower Script' inherited the name of the 'Original Sunflower Script', it's likely that the Evil-Resisting Swordplay inherited more of the essence of the 'Original Sunflower Script'.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Quick note - it is highly likely that Lin Yuantu's version of the PXJF is superior to DFBB's copy of the Sunflower Script.

    The reason is simple - the Sunflower Script we see in the novel was 'created' in Huashan based on Lin Yuantu's "casual explanations" of the two parts that Yue Su and Cai Zifeng stole from Shaolin, whereas the Evil-Resisting Swordplay is basically Lin Yuantu's full, true personal interpretation of what Yue Su and Cai Zifeng showed him.

    In other words, while DFBB's 'Sunflower Script' inherited the name of the 'Original Sunflower Script', it's likely that the Evil-Resisting Swordplay inherited more of the essence of the 'Original Sunflower Script'.
    So that's mean LYT > DFBB🤔🤔🤔🤔

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    When you think about it, elite arts in SPW are powerful, but kind of lame. They come with so many strings attached.
    It is very good to see that the martial arts in SPW is not similar to other JY universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Inner strength is required to speed up pixie sword and to gain this inner strength, you need to castrate or else you'll fire deviate.

    The 72 strokes are just ordinary & LPZ & his father learnt the 72 strokes, but was missing the speed part. LYT would surprise his opponents by speeding up at certain parts and taking them out.
    Yu Canghai had already researched the stances of Evil Resisting Sword Art and he knew all the moves by heart and decided that there was nothing special about those stances. Suddenly, at this moment, there were so many wonderful variations in the sword art and it was also done as fast as lightning making Yu Canghai roar again and again as he got more and more desperate
    It is true that sunflower heavily rely on speed but that doesn't mean sunflower sword stances are ordinary

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    If Bixie stances was just "ordinary" then logically an elite fighters/swordsmen would easily defeat Bixie Manual user like YBQ or LPZ or LYT look at XLN (post L/R Hand Skill) if her Jade Maiden Sword was "ordinary" she wouldn't lasted more than 💯 stances against JLFW or GJ or HYS..
    I really don't understand how related XLN to this.
    SPW is part of the JY universe but has its own unique settings and rules that you can not find them in other novels of JY universe

    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Each of the stances was just basic moves. It was the speed of it that matter. LHC was able to see the openings, but couldn't counter it, due to the speed.
    LHC saw because he had 9SOD.Did RWX see them ?What about ZLC and YCH?
    When you say "LHC was able to see" technically you are saying that how excellent 9SOD is

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    LHC need at least 200 stances to figure out YBQ "flaw" so Bixie stances isn't ordinary at all JY even said only DGQB sword art could beat Sunflower/Bixie..
    First part is not true and second part is true
    LHC saw the flaws even in fight with DFBB check this
    That day at the Dark Wood Cliff, he fought with Dongfang Bubai who, only holding a piece of embroidery needle, moved as fast as lightning and was unbelievably quick. So even though there were still weaknesses in the movements of his body and attacks, they were only fleeting. Linghu Chong only managed to see the flaws but they were gone in the next instant which made him unable to attack those flaws
    then
    Later on, Linghu Chong saw Yue Buqun and Zuo Lengchan fighting at the place of worship, and Lin Pingzhi fighting with Mu Gaofeng, Yu Canghai, and the Qingcheng disciples. Recently, he had been thinking hard about the flaws in the movements of that sword art, but he had always run into the single difficulty;the speed of the opponent's swordplay. When a flaw could only be seen fleetingly, it was very hard to attack
    He need 200 stances to figure out how use those flaws and in he end
    . Suddenly, a thought flashed in Linghu Chong's mind, "His Evil Resisting Sword Art is extremely quick, and his flaws aren't actual flaws. Even though there's no weakness in his sword moves, I've finally found out a weakness in his swordplay -- his swordplay repeats."
    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Was that because the stances are complex or because the moves where too fast and he had to see it afew times before he could figure it out?

    There was only 72 stances and YBQ would had to repeat them, which gave LHC an opportunity to see them again and again.
    both of them but these are not problems.
    As I said the problem was how use the flaws not what is the flaws.
    And for last sentence
    Even though the Lin family's Evil Resisting Sword Art was made up of seventy two moves, each move had several dozens changes, and as it went through all the variations, the changes became very complicated. If other people saw this sword play, even if they didn't become dizzy from looking at it, they would still be bewildered from seeing this complicated sword play and they wouldn't be able to execute their own sword moves
    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    But if LHC didn't have DG9S did you think he still could "figure out" YBQ Bixie Sword or could someone like Priest Chongxu figure out YBQ "flaw" and beat him with his Tai Chi sword..
    No
    Again No

    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Tai chi sword is too slow 🤣

    Ok i found this, looks like there was some conplex moves in the mix.

    https://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthr...=1#post1155154
    LOL
    I really don't want to drag tai chi sword in to this

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well I just want to say without DG9S could someone figure out DFBB or YBQ "flaws" since JY openly admit that only DG9S could beat Sunflower Manual (which still depends on the users of course)..
    True
    In the JY universe only 9SOD can handle Sunflower manual

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Tai Chi Sword Technique might appear slow, but it seldom loses to faster techniques.
    I rally want to say something but .... maybe later.

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    I really don't understand how related XLN to this.
    SPW is part of the JY universe but has its own unique settings and rules that you can not find them in other novels of JY universe

    ....

    Well what I mean is "ordinary" stances with superior speed isn't enough to make you "good" fighter just like XLN he could handle JLFW in Chongyang Palace and even injured him not only by using her supersonic speed but also the exquisite stances of Jade Maiden Sword which the stance itself almost unbreakable in ROCH except by DGQB HIS philosophy "simplicity bring superiority" and (maybe) JLFW 10th Dragon/Elephant Prajna..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Quick note - it is highly likely that Lin Yuantu's version of the PXJF is superior to DFBB's copy of the Sunflower Script.

    The reason is simple - the Sunflower Script we see in the novel was 'created' in Huashan based on Lin Yuantu's "casual explanations" of the two parts that Yue Su and Cai Zifeng stole from Shaolin, whereas the Evil-Resisting Swordplay is basically Lin Yuantu's full, true personal interpretation of what Yue Su and Cai Zifeng showed him.

    In other words, while DFBB's 'Sunflower Script' inherited the name of the 'Original Sunflower Script', it's likely that the Evil-Resisting Swordplay inherited more of the essence of the 'Original Sunflower Script'.
    Even FZ said this but I really don't think so
    I think ERSA has more focus on sword and DFBB's sunflower has more focus on needles

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    So that's mean LYT > DFBB🤔🤔🤔🤔
    That is not necessarily true

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I really don't understand how related XLN to this.
    SPW is part of the JY universe but has its own unique settings and rules that you can not find them in other novels of JY universe

    ....

    Well what I mean is "ordinary" stances with superior speed isn't enough to make you "good" fighter just like XLN he could handle JLFW in Chongyang Palace and even injured him not only by using her supersonic speed but also the exquisite stances of Jade Maiden Sword which the stance itself almost unbreakable in ROCH except by DGQB HIS philosophy "simplicity bring superiority" and (maybe) JLFW 10th Dragon/Elephant Prajna..
    We learned in SPW book 1 that if you have good understanding even with the ordinary stances you could be a good fighter
    And we have TBG
    Honestly I have many doubt and question around the fight in chongyang palace and XLN.But here is not good place for them

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