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Thread: Mid-Tier Matchups # 45: Gong Nam 7 Freaks (LOCH) vs. early Little Dragon Girl (ROCH)

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    Default Mid-Tier Matchups # 45: Gong Nam 7 Freaks (LOCH) vs. early Little Dragon Girl (ROCH)

    Today's matchup pits the Gong Nam 7 Freaks from LOCH against early Little Dragon Girl (ROCH), who has only the Ancient Tomb Sect skills she had learned by the time of her first appearance in the story.

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    Well early-ROCH XLN only as good as/or slightly better than Hao Datong while 7 Freaks (LOCH) almost on par with QCJ and I think ROCH Hao Datong never reach QCJ level even QCJ in LOCH so logically 7 Freaks would beat XLN IMHO..

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well early-ROCH XLN only as good as/or slightly better than Hao Datong while 7 Freaks (LOCH) almost on par with QCJ and I think ROCH Hao Datong never reach QCJ level even QCJ in LOCH so logically 7 Freaks would beat XLN IMHO..
    I see it as the opposite. All Seven Immortals of Quanzhen had made improvements between the end of LOCH and beginning of ROCH. XLN easily handled Hao Datong and was only marginally lesser than Qiu Chuji who was able to fight the seven freaks to a stalemate at the beginning of LOCH. The only way I can see the 7 freaks winning is if they used some kind of formation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    I see it as the opposite. All Seven Immortals of Quanzhen had made improvements between the end of LOCH and beginning of ROCH. XLN easily handled Hao Datong and was only marginally lesser than Qiu Chuji who was able to fight the seven freaks to a stalemate at the beginning of LOCH. The only way I can see the 7 freaks winning is if they used some kind of formation.
    XLN beat Hao Datong using a "trick" i.e Silk Gloves which can not stretced or cutting by sword but in terms of pure martial arts she is only slightly better than Hao Datong which mean she is below QCJ even after learn 9 Yin and Jade Maiden Sword she is considered inferior to LMC and LMC considered as good as MCF in LOCH so logically XLN which inferior to LMC also inferior to 7 Freaks since 7 Freaks could fought MCF to "draw" in LOCH..

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    XLN beat Hao Datong using a "trick" i.e Silk Gloves which can not stretced or cutting by sword but in terms of pure martial arts she is only slightly better than Hao Datong which mean she is below QCJ even after learn 9 Yin and Jade Maiden Sword she is considered inferior to LMC and LMC considered as good as MCF in LOCH so logically XLN which inferior to LMC also inferior to 7 Freaks since 7 Freaks could fought MCF to "draw" in LOCH..
    The 7 freaks never fought MCF to a draw. They ambushed her and managed to blind her with a trick. In an actual fight they would have been slaughtered. XLN gloves only protected her hands from the blade it was not like HR's armour, she still had to fight and beat HDT, and could not just tank his attacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    The 7 freaks never fought MCF to a draw. They ambushed her and managed to blind her with a trick. In an actual fight they would have been slaughtered. XLN gloves only protected her hands from the blade it was not like HR's armour, she still had to fight and beat HDT, and could not just tank his attacks.
    Well 7 Freaks could fought for draw against QCJ which around MCF level or even better so how could MCF "destroy" 7 Freaks also XLN still considered inferior to LMC even after 9 Yin and Jade Maiden Sword lesson and we almost agree that MCF ~ LMC so logically pre-9 Yin/Jade Maiden Sword XLN not match for 7 Freaks..

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well 7 Freaks could fought for draw against QCJ which around MCF level or even better so how could MCF "destroy" 7 Freaks also XLN still considered inferior to LMC even after 9 Yin and Jade Maiden Sword lesson and we almost agree that MCF ~ LMC so logically pre-9 Yin/Jade Maiden Sword XLN not match for 7 Freaks..
    QCJ was no way equal to MCF. Remember a blind MCF managed to one hit a fully fit Ma Yu, who although inferior to QCJ would not have lost so easily in a fight. Also remember during the first Heroes Meeting in ROCH, HDT was one of the three selected to face the Mongolians, which means he was considered one of the strongest there, and XLN handled him like a chump. There is no way one of the seven freaks would have been that strong and given the fact they did not fight in formation XLN's insane speed means that she could easily pick them off one at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    QCJ was no way equal to MCF. Remember a blind MCF managed to one hit a fully fit Ma Yu, who although inferior to QCJ would not have lost so easily in a fight. Also remember during the first Heroes Meeting in ROCH, HDT was one of the three selected to face the Mongolians, which means he was considered one of the strongest there, and XLN handled him like a chump. There is no way one of the seven freaks would have been that strong and given the fact they did not fight in formation XLN's insane speed means that she could easily pick them off one at a time.
    QCJ almost on par with MCF if not better since he could "injure" HYS while MCF she is easily 1 hit K.O by HYS in Yu Manor and "struggling" against GJ which only learn 15 of 18 Dragon Palm I never seen or imagine QCJ would be getting "trouble" against GJ at that point also since QCJ (LOCH) ~ MCF ~ LMC ~ 7 Freaks that mean 7 Freaks > XLN which still considered inferior to LMC even after 9 Yin and Jade Maiden Sword lesson..

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    QCJ almost on par with MCF if not better since he could "injure" HYS while MCF she is easily 1 hit K.O by HYS in Yu Manor and "struggling" against GJ which only learn 15 of 18 Dragon Palm I never seen or imagine QCJ would be getting "trouble" against GJ at that point also since QCJ (LOCH) ~ MCF ~ LMC ~ 7 Freaks that mean 7 Freaks > XLN which still considered inferior to LMC even after 9 Yin and Jade Maiden Sword lesson..
    What are you on about? When did QCJ ever injure HYS? At best when doing the Great Dipper formation with 5 immortals and GJ they managed to gain the upper hand with HYS, never did he injure HYS on his own.
    XLN 'inferiority' to LMC was based on assumption. The only time they ever fought was when XLN was suffering from fire deviation. A fit and healthy XLN at 16 years old with zero battle experience could dominate HDT and face off against QCJ, and you are trying to tell me she could not pick of the freaks one at a time with her speed and needles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    What are you on about? When did QCJ ever injure HYS? At best when doing the Great Dipper formation with 5 immortals and GJ they managed to gain the upper hand with HYS, never did he injure HYS on his own.
    XLN 'inferiority' to LMC was based on assumption. The only time they ever fought was when XLN was suffering from fire deviation. A fit and healthy XLN at 16 years old with zero battle experience could dominate HDT and face off against QCJ, and you are trying to tell me she could not pick of the freaks one at a time with her speed and needles?
    Well I think you never read the novel correctly..

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    🔸HYS 1 hit "K.O" MCF..

    “Mei Shijie,” Lu Chengfeng said, “Your manual is not here, perhaps you dropped it on your way here.”

    Mei Chaofeng did not answer; she kept groping around. Suddenly everybody’s eyes were blurred and that green-robed man reappeared beside her. His movement was so swift that nobody saw anything but Mei Chaofeng’s body was lifted off the ground and an instant later they were gone and vanished among the trees outside the hall. Mei Chaofeng was very skilled, yet that man had captured her without any struggle. They looked at each other in blank dismay. This person’s skill was unbelievable.

    🔸7 Freaks was on par with MCF and only getting upper-hand when GJ joined the fight

    Meanwhile Zhu Cong gave the antidote to Huang Rong. “Have him swallow some, then spread some on his wound,” he said. And then he also put the dagger he took from Mei Chaofeng to Guo Jing’s pocket. “This dagger was yours,” he said and joining his brothers and sister he lifted his iron fan to attack Mei Chaofeng. The six had trained hard these past ten years and had improved their martial arts considerably; therefore, this battle was many times fiercer than the one on that Mongolian barren hill.

    Lu Chengfeng and his son were amazed witnessing this fierce battle. “Mei Chaofeng’s martial art is no doubt swift, fierce and ruthless; but these Six Freaks of Jiangnan are certainly live up to their names,” they thought. “Ladies and gentlemen, please stop! Please listen to what I have to say!” Lu Chengfeng loudly shouted. But both parties were fighting fiercely, who would actually have time to listen to him?

    Not long after he took the antidote, Guo Jing was slowly regaining his consciousness. The poison attacked his system fast, but the antidote also neutralized it fast. His wound was still hurting, but he was able to move his left arm. After putting the dagger away he immediately jumped and joined the battle. As before, he started slowly, and when his palm was almost touching Mei Chaofeng’s body, he added more strength. It was the stance ‘zhen jing bai li’ [hundred li’s shocks]. Mei Chaofeng was busy fending off her attackers and could not hear Guo Jing’s palm. Suddenly she was hit and fell down immediately right at the moment when Han Baoju’s whip and Nan Xiren’s pole were coming down on her.

    Guo Jing bent his waist and parried these two weapons. “Masters! Please forgive her!” he shouted. The Six Freaks complied. They held their weapons and leaped back.

    Mei Chaofeng stood up and got ready to fight again. Knowing that Guo Jing was fierce and she could not see, she took out her ‘du long yin bian’ and readied it in front of her. Guo Jing did not move, “We are not going to fight you anymore. You are free to go!” he shouted.

    🔸 QCJ "injured" HYS

    Qiu Chuji only saw a dark green shadow flashing by; a palm hacked down right in front of him, the palm shadow suddenly fluttered. Qiu Chuji did not know where the attack would come from; desperately he raised his sleeve, striking toward Huang Yaoshi’s chest.

    Qiu Chuji’s martial art was the chief among the Quanzhen Seven Masters; this strike was not a small matter. Huang Yaoshi had underestimated him a bit too much; unexpectedly he was struck by Qiu Chuji’s sleeve and he felt pain on his chest.

    🔸XLN (pre L/R Hand Skill) considered inferior to LMC is not "assumption" but JY himself indirectly said that the only best female fighters at that time were LMC and HR

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    🔸HYS 1 hit "K.O" MCF..

    “Mei Shijie,” Lu Chengfeng said, “Your manual is not here, perhaps you dropped it on your way here.”

    Mei Chaofeng did not answer; she kept groping around. Suddenly everybody’s eyes were blurred and that green-robed man reappeared beside her. His movement was so swift that nobody saw anything but Mei Chaofeng’s body was lifted off the ground and an instant later they were gone and vanished among the trees outside the hall. Mei Chaofeng was very skilled, yet that man had captured her without any struggle. They looked at each other in blank dismay. This person’s skill was unbelievable.

    🔸7 Freaks was on par with MCF and only getting upper-hand when GJ joined the fight

    Meanwhile Zhu Cong gave the antidote to Huang Rong. “Have him swallow some, then spread some on his wound,” he said. And then he also put the dagger he took from Mei Chaofeng to Guo Jing’s pocket. “This dagger was yours,” he said and joining his brothers and sister he lifted his iron fan to attack Mei Chaofeng. The six had trained hard these past ten years and had improved their martial arts considerably; therefore, this battle was many times fiercer than the one on that Mongolian barren hill.

    Lu Chengfeng and his son were amazed witnessing this fierce battle. “Mei Chaofeng’s martial art is no doubt swift, fierce and ruthless; but these Six Freaks of Jiangnan are certainly live up to their names,” they thought. “Ladies and gentlemen, please stop! Please listen to what I have to say!” Lu Chengfeng loudly shouted. But both parties were fighting fiercely, who would actually have time to listen to him?

    Not long after he took the antidote, Guo Jing was slowly regaining his consciousness. The poison attacked his system fast, but the antidote also neutralized it fast. His wound was still hurting, but he was able to move his left arm. After putting the dagger away he immediately jumped and joined the battle. As before, he started slowly, and when his palm was almost touching Mei Chaofeng’s body, he added more strength. It was the stance ‘zhen jing bai li’ [hundred li’s shocks]. Mei Chaofeng was busy fending off her attackers and could not hear Guo Jing’s palm. Suddenly she was hit and fell down immediately right at the moment when Han Baoju’s whip and Nan Xiren’s pole were coming down on her.

    Guo Jing bent his waist and parried these two weapons. “Masters! Please forgive her!” he shouted. The Six Freaks complied. They held their weapons and leaped back.

    Mei Chaofeng stood up and got ready to fight again. Knowing that Guo Jing was fierce and she could not see, she took out her ‘du long yin bian’ and readied it in front of her. Guo Jing did not move, “We are not going to fight you anymore. You are free to go!” he shouted.

    🔸 QCJ "injured" HYS

    Qiu Chuji only saw a dark green shadow flashing by; a palm hacked down right in front of him, the palm shadow suddenly fluttered. Qiu Chuji did not know where the attack would come from; desperately he raised his sleeve, striking toward Huang Yaoshi’s chest.

    Qiu Chuji’s martial art was the chief among the Quanzhen Seven Masters; this strike was not a small matter. Huang Yaoshi had underestimated him a bit too much; unexpectedly he was struck by Qiu Chuji’s sleeve and he felt pain on his chest.

    🔸XLN (pre L/R Hand Skill) considered inferior to LMC is not "assumption" but JY himself indirectly said that the only best female fighters at that time were LMC and HR
    Thanks for the above. Still reading the official translation only finished book one of LOCH.
    HYS 1 hit "K.O" MCF: I never disputed this and besides HYS was on the verge of killing the 6 freaks in Ox Village so they hardly did any better than MCF.
    7 Freaks was on par with MCF and only getting upper-hand when GJ joined the fight: The 6 freaks weren't fighting her to a par only distracting her while GJ recovered. XLN could distract Golden Wheel Monk for over 10 moves but that does mean they were on a par.
    QCJ "injured" HYS: This is more an example of HYS's arrogance and carelessness than QCJ's own skill, HYS did the same when facing Qiu Qianren where he tried to tank a direct hit from him. In an actual fight HYS would have one hit QCJ.
    XLN (pre L/R Hand Skill) considered inferior to LMC: Again we don't actually she this. We do see XLN facing off against seasoned fighters at an incredibly young age and giving a good account of herself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    Thanks for the above. Still reading the official translation only finished book one of LOCH.
    HYS 1 hit "K.O" MCF: I never disputed this and besides HYS was on the verge of killing the 6 freaks in Ox Village so they hardly did any better than MCF.
    7 Freaks was on par with MCF and only getting upper-hand when GJ joined the fight: The 6 freaks weren't fighting her to a par only distracting her while GJ recovered. XLN could distract Golden Wheel Monk for over 10 moves but that does mean they were on a par.
    QCJ "injured" HYS: This is more an example of HYS's arrogance and carelessness than QCJ's own skill, HYS did the same when facing Qiu Qianren where he tried to tank a direct hit from him. In an actual fight HYS would have one hit QCJ.
    XLN (pre L/R Hand Skill) considered inferior to LMC: Again we don't actually she this. We do see XLN facing off against seasoned fighters at an incredibly young age and giving a good account of herself.
    Well just I said before 7 Freaks could fought for draw against QCJ which around MCF level so logically they also could fight evenly with MCF also I never imagine QCJ would "struggling" against GJ which only learn 15 of 18 Dragon Palm like MCF during their fight in Yu Manor..

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    Regarding HR LMC and XLN..

    Noticing the lithe and swift movements of the woman, the pale-yellow bamboo cane in her waist belt, Li Mochou at once put the sack down, she saluted smiling: “Junior has admired Mrs. Guo’s famous name for ages, I feel delighted to meet you now.”

    At that time in the martial realm, the most famous female martial experts were Huang Rong and Li Mochou. ‘Qing-jing san-ren’ [Sage of Tranquility] Sun Bu’Er was already famous before them but her wugong (martial arts) were inferior. Xiao Longnü was good enough wugong-wise but she was still too young and not experienced; she was barely known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well just I said before 7 Freaks could fought for draw against QCJ which around MCF level so logically they also could fight evenly with MCF also I never imagine QCJ would "struggling" against GJ which only learn 15 of 18 Dragon Palm like MCF during their fight in Yu Manor..
    Again don't know why you think MCF and QCJ were equals, unless you think QCJ can one hit Ma Yu, which I seriously doubt.
    As we can't prove QCJ was equal to MCF using LMS to compare to XLN is pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    Again don't know why you think MCF and QCJ were equals, unless you think QCJ can one hit Ma Yu, which I seriously doubt.
    As we can't prove QCJ was equal to MCF using LMS to compare to XLN is pointless.
    Honestly I don't have much evidence about it but 20 years ago before the story begin The 7 Freaks could fought QCJ for a draw and 20 years later they also could fight evenly with MCF which mean QCJ more or less equal with MCF if we using The 7 Freaks as "benchmark" also The 7 Freaks could easily beat OYK which considered only one level inferior to MCF and QCJ which mean again that QCJ ~ MCF ~ QCJ and if you said MCF could 1 hit MY that's why she is must be better than QCJ I also can said that I never imagine someone like QCJ or even MY would "struggling" against 15 Dragon Palm GJ like MCF..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Honestly I don't have much evidence about it but 20 years ago before the story begin The 7 Freaks could fought QCJ for a draw and 20 years later they also could fight evenly with MCF which mean QCJ more or less equal with MCF if we using The 7 Freaks as "benchmark" also The 7 Freaks could easily beat OYK which considered only one level inferior to MCF and QCJ which mean again that QCJ ~ MCF ~ QCJ and if you said MCF could 1 hit MY that's why she is must be better than QCJ I also can said that I never imagine someone like QCJ or even MY would "struggling" against 15 Dragon Palm GJ like MCF..
    Sori I mean MCF ~ QCJ ~ 7 Freaks 😁😁😁😁

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Sori I mean MCF ~ QCJ ~ 7 Freaks 😁😁😁😁
    The 7 Freaks first encounter with MCF they clearly knew they were inferior, hence Ke Zhen'e devised the plan to ambush and blind her. At Lu Chengfeng's manor the Freaks were fighting a blinded MCF, whose confidence had been shaken by her inability to quickly take out GJ, so they were able to hold her off for a time.

    When we look a XLN, took on HDT, faced off against QCJ and held off Golden Wheel Monk twice, all before learning L/R hand skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    The 7 Freaks first encounter with MCF they clearly knew they were inferior, hence Ke Zhen'e devised the plan to ambush and blind her. At Lu Chengfeng's manor the Freaks were fighting a blinded MCF, whose confidence had been shaken by her inability to quickly take out GJ, so they were able to hold her off for a time.

    When we look a XLN, took on HDT, faced off against QCJ and held off Golden Wheel Monk twice, all before learning L/R hand skill.
    During the first encounter, the Gong Nam 7 Freaks had to contend with two Black Wind Demons: Mui Chiu Fung and her husband, Chan Yeun Fung, who was slightly more formidable than she was. Perhaps if they only needed to contend with her, the danger to them would not be as dire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post

    When we look a XLN, took on HDT, faced off against QCJ and held off Golden Wheel Monk twice, all before learning L/R hand skill.
    All Little Dragon Girl had with Yau Chui Gei was a brief staring contest (no martial arts blows were exchanged), and the first fight with Golden Wheel Monk was after she had learned the Jade Maiden Manual skill. We're focusing on a Little Dragon Girl from at least four years before she learned the Jade Maiden Manual skill. She surprised Gok Dai Tung (because, after all, Ancient Tomb Sect martial arts were specifically designed to be the "black star" of Cheun Jen Sect martial arts), but I don't know if her martial arts were actually superior to his in absolute value terms.

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