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Thread: Do you think ZWJ could have copied Dragon Palms?

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Default Do you think ZWJ could have copied Dragon Palms?

    Inspired by the debate in the ZWJ thread about him 'mastering' Dragon Claws.

    Do you guys think if ZWJ got to fight XF or GJ or H7G, he would have been able to master the Dragon Palms just from observation?

    Next....

    How about DG9J? If he got to fight LHC?
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Style wise ZWJ should be able to imitate but power or essence wise, not sure.

    Even with XZ's XWXG, if XF did not explain to him the essence, his palm moves may not be as effective as it should be?

    for DG9J, ZWJ would be able to grasp it quite fast because its basically exploiting your enemy's weak point and attack where the enemy is weakest

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    No, I don't think so. JY always said that no one could copy internals. The most you can copy is external moves and the Dragon palm is mostly about projecting your internals. From outside, its external moves are pretty basic.

    ZWJ's ability to "copy" is just to show that he's a very quick learner, kinda like YG and LHC. He's able to "master" it beyond the capability of Kong Xing only because his "base" (internals, quickness, intelligence etc.) is higher than Kong Xing's. Also there's only like 36 moves in Dragon claw.

    In contrast, Taiji Fist and Taiji Sword have no moves and there's no chance ZWJ could copy them by just looking at ZSF practicing. Even with ZSF's teaching, it still took him a while to perform these arts, though by no means to "master" them right on the spot the way he did with Dragon Claw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misfit View Post
    Style wise ZWJ should be able to imitate but power or essence wise, not sure.

    Even with XZ's XWXG, if XF did not explain to him the essence, his palm moves may not be as effective as it should be?

    for DG9J, ZWJ would be able to grasp it quite fast because its basically exploiting your enemy's weak point and attack where the enemy is weakest
    Yeeep totally agree that's why 18 Dragon Palm "special" is not about "technique" but how to fully maximize/properly maximize your "energy"..

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    Yeah, probably. There's nothing especially fancy about the external form of Hong Lung 18 Palms. Its potency lies in how it channels deep reservoirs of inner power into an irresistible force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Yeah, probably. There's nothing especially fancy about the external form of Hong Lung 18 Palms. Its potency lies in how it channels deep reservoirs of inner power into an irresistible force.
    If not that reason H7G wouldn't teach GJ 3 last stances of 18 Dragon Palm in from of OYK..

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    https://youtu.be/RqHoykmBGU0

    At 1150 he does dragon palm I assume. Resembles one Felix does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mido-Ban View Post
    https://youtu.be/RqHoykmBGU0

    At 1150 he does dragon palm I assume. Resembles one Felix does.
    The form is similar to what was choreographed for Felix Wong's "Hong Lung 18 Palms" a few years earlier in LOCH '82, but the story of HSDS '86 doesn't say specifically what kind of external technique Cheung Mo Gei used to push open that door. All we do know is that it is a combination of 9 Yeung Jen Ging energy and the unique properties of the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee. HSDS '86 does not mention whether Cheung Mo Gei ever learned the Hong Lung 18 Palms (though his own later remarks after meeting the phony Shih For Lung strongly suggest that he didn't, and there's really no evidence that he did).

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    IIRC, in a really early edition of HSDS, JY wrote that young ZWJ learned some forms of Dragon Palms from Xie Xun, then used it against the Zhou/Wei cousins when he was being bullied. Zhou Changling saw this and made the connection that he must be Xie Xun's god son. Then JY realized how silly that was and changed it to ZWJ using some Wudang palm/fist attack in a revision.

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    That's what I don't understand either. Cause Demi God Semi devil jimozi copied alot of techniques using different internal but was powerful. But if he used those sects internal would those moves be more stronger?

    Same with wuji since he copied the dragon claw but not internal he was able to outclass the monk but that's do to his higher internals etc but if he had say Shaolin internal would he have won?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mido-Ban View Post
    That's what I don't understand either. Cause Demi God Semi devil jimozi copied alot of techniques using different internal but was powerful. But if he used those sects internal would those moves be more stronger?

    Same with wuji since he copied the dragon claw but not internal he was able to outclass the monk but that's do to his higher internals etc but if he had say Shaolin internal would he have won?
    The difference is JMZ have time to "refine" his "imitate" technique while Wuji in this thread he is "push" to "imitate" 18 Dragon Palm during fight..

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    He can copy some external arts like dragon claws or even master them.But only these kind (Fully external + short + without any idea behind them) of Arts.
    For 9SOD I say no

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    As far as i know 18 palm dragon is external martial art, not internal. If you refer to DGSD early story where XF is battle against MRF, XF is injured and can't used his internals, but still can used his dragon palms. Then After MRF is gone, he splitted blood.

    In my opinion, ZWJ will easily copied first 15 stances, but the latter 3, he should battle at least a few times to find the way how to do it since he should mastering the first 15 stances

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    Quote Originally Posted by St3v3 View Post
    As far as i know 18 palm dragon is external martial art, not internal. If you refer to DGSD early story where XF is battle against MRF, XF is injured and can't used his internals, but still can used his dragon palms. Then After MRF is gone, he splitted blood.

    In my opinion, ZWJ will easily copied first 15 stances, but the latter 3, he should battle at least a few times to find the way how to do it since he should mastering the first 15 stances
    18 Dragon Palm by nature indeed "external art" but if it stop like that 18 Dragon Palm is not special palm art anymore which considered the best palm art under heaven by Janitor Monk..

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