Sunflower Manual Capability

[ChanceEncounter]

Sorry, the answer is a definitive no. XF lost to MRF and YTZ, both inferior fighters to LHC and RWX, let alone LHC+RWX+XWT.

DFBB is clearly above any Trilogy Greats.

Not quite. XF was equaling MRF and YTZ, who actually synergized because MRF covered up the technical weaknesses of YTZ, while YTZ's massive internal covered up the force-based weaknesses of MRF.

Even then, XF was fighting them to a stalemate, if not an advantage on the field. He likely would have lost in an hour or so, because he would have been ground down in an endurance/internal contest against someone like YTZ who had higher internal than him.

Moreover, the situation and dynamics of that fight is very different than RWX/XWT/LHC. DFBB had far stronger internal than any of the 3, whereas XF had to contend with someone who had greater internal than him, but was a relatively poor fighter. If one of RWX/XWT/LHC had greater internal than DFBB, I imagine the 3v1 would look very different.

GJ at the end of LOCH briefly held up 1v3 vs OYF, QQR, and then ZBT decided to mess around and join their side. Then he held his own against JLGS and the Mongol Elites in the Mongol camp. He has multiple elite Xv1 showings, including Xv1s where one of his combatants was of higher caliber than any of RWX/XWT/LHC.

The dynamics of Xv1 changes the scope of the fight a lot. I would argue that, logically speaking, someone with sublime speed should be better than average at handling Xv1 situations.

Moreover, if we're using the stickied ranking list as a reference, a difference of 20+ should represent clear superiority to the point where you could theoretically beat them in ONE move. While he had a disadvantage of weapon, and his superiority was obvious, he tried multiple times to kill LHC in what was effectively a 1 on 1 battle, and LHC was able to parry through mutually assured destruction tactics. So while LHC was forced onto the defense and would have inevitably lost the 1v1, he was not yet so far outclassed that DFBB could simply blow him off the battlefield.

If we're talking relative differences here, it's easy to imagine Great level fighters beating a LMC, a MCF, a QZ7, a Jin Flukie, a Mongol expert, a Ming Cult elite, etc in one move. In fact, they've done it at various points in the novels. Such that it makes me very uncomfortable putting DFBB more than 20+ points ahead of LHC.

Like I said, I think 85 is fair. You could easily make the argument that DFBB is noticeably stronger than the XF/GJ/YG tier, but it wouldn't be by a massive margin.

[Western Eccentric]

Not quite. XF was equaling MRF and YTZ, who actually synergized because MRF covered up the technical weaknesses of YTZ, while YTZ's massive internal covered up the force-based weaknesses of MRF.

Even then, XF was fighting them to a stalemate, if not an advantage on the field. He likely would have lost in an hour or so, because he would have been ground down in an endurance/internal contest against someone like YTZ who had higher internal than him.

Moreover, the situation and dynamics of that fight is very different than RWX/XWT/LHC. DFBB had far stronger internal than any of the 3, whereas XF had to contend with someone who had greater internal than him, but was a relatively poor fighter. If one of RWX/XWT/LHC had greater internal than DFBB, I imagine the 3v1 would look very different.

GJ at the end of LOCH briefly held up 1v3 vs OYF, QQR, and then ZBT decided to mess around and join their side. Then he held his own against JLGS and the Mongol Elites in the Mongol camp. He has multiple elite Xv1 showings, including Xv1s where one of his combatants was of higher caliber than any of RWX/XWT/LHC.

The dynamics of Xv1 changes the scope of the fight a lot. I would argue that, logically speaking, someone with sublime speed should be better than average at handling Xv1 situations.

Moreover, if we're using the stickied ranking list as a reference, a difference of 20+ should represent clear superiority to the point where you could theoretically beat them in ONE move. While he had a disadvantage of weapon, and his superiority was obvious, he tried multiple times to kill LHC in what was effectively a 1 on 1 battle, and LHC was able to parry through mutually assured destruction tactics. So while LHC was forced onto the defense and would have inevitably lost the 1v1, he was not yet so far outclassed that DFBB could simply blow him off the battlefield.

If we're talking relative differences here, it's easy to imagine Great level fighters beating a LMC, a MCF, a QZ7, a Jin Flukie, a Mongol expert, a Ming Cult elite, etc in one move. In fact, they've done it at various points in the novels. Such that it makes me very uncomfortable putting DFBB more than 20+ points ahead of LHC.

Like I said, I think 85 is fair. You could easily make the argument that DFBB is noticeably stronger than the XF/GJ/YG tier, but it wouldn't be by a massive margin.

Yeah you might be good in 1 vs Xx duel especially if you have superior speed but is not mean you also good in 1 vs 1 duel against someone as strong as you..

[FalconPunch190]

Even though both DG and Janitor Monk would win in the end, DFBB would give them some problems.

[Western Eccentric]

Even though both DG and Janitor Monk would win in the end, DFBB would give them some problems.

I highly doubt about it since Janitor Monk could easily kill both Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan in 1 stance also Yang Guo with HIS is pretty awesome for people at his level which mean DGQB should be much better than Yang Guo level which I think not far from Dongfang Bubai level..

[ChanceEncounter]

I highly doubt about it since Janitor Monk could easily kill both Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan in 1 stance also Yang Guo with HIS is pretty awesome for people at his level which mean DGQB should be much better than Yang Guo level which I think not far from Dongfang Bubai level..

It goes beyond that, I think.

YG's swordsmanship is not that advanced compared to LHC, who isn't that advanced compared to FQY, who isn't that advanced compared to DGQB.

YG's internal isn't to the level of the wooden sword yet. When he was training to try to reach the wooden sword level, he would strike the tree with the wooden sword and they would both break, and he reasoned that his internal was not on that level yet. The no sword phase should logically be a level above even this.

So, if we're using YG with HIS as a baseline (which shouldn't be too far short of DFBB), his swordsmanship is at least 2 or 3 tiers below DGQB's, while his internal is at least 1.5-2 significant tiers below, also.

Remember, the no sword phase isn't just being formidable without a sword. It's reaching a paradigm where not having a sword actually beats having a sword. I speculate that this probably looks like 6MSJ, maybe with fully mastered DG9J techniques, which is a pretty terrifying prospect indeed.

[Western Eccentric]

It goes beyond that, I think.

YG's swordsmanship is not that advanced compared to LHC, who isn't that advanced compared to FQY, who isn't that advanced compared to DGQB.

YG's internal isn't to the level of the wooden sword yet. When he was training to try to reach the wooden sword level, he would strike the tree with the wooden sword and they would both break, and he reasoned that his internal was not on that level yet. The no sword phase should logically be a level above even this.

So, if we're using YG with HIS as a baseline (which shouldn't be too far short of DFBB), his swordsmanship is at least 2 or 3 tiers below DGQB's, while his internal is at least 1.5-2 significant tiers below, also.

Remember, the no sword phase isn't just being formidable without a sword. It's reaching a paradigm where not having a sword actually beats having a sword. I speculate that this probably looks like 6MSJ, maybe with fully mastered DG9J techniques, which is a pretty terrifying prospect indeed.

Yang Guo swordsmanship indeed nowhere near Dugu Qiubai level but he is more well-rounded fighter than Dugu Qiubai so I think End-ROCH HIS Yang Guo/full powered Sad Palm Yang Guo overall level might be around 25-30% of Dugu Qiubai level while Dongfang Bubai 35% of Dugu Qiubai..