Mid-Tier Matchups # 92: 20YO GJ (LOCH) + 20YO YG vs. Shaolin Do-Gen Elders (HSDS)

[Ken Cheng]

All right, another combo vs. the three Shaolin Do-Generation Elders (HSDS) and their whip formation.

The two combatants against the Shaolin Elders will be twenty-year-old Gwok Jing from the end of LOCH, capable of withstanding a combined 600 strokes from two Greats at the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament and twenty-year-old Yeung Gor, a few months after he acquired the Heavy Iron Sword (say around the time that Little Dragon Girl started her self-imposed sixteen-year exile).

Caveat: Yeung Gor does NOT have the Heavy Iron Sword in his possession during the fight, meaning he has to rely on his skill and not the weapon.

If the duo loses, however, then we will give Yeung Gor the Heavy Iron Sword and determine if it makes a difference in the outcome.

[Western Eccentric]

All right, another combo vs. the three Shaolin Do-Generation Elders (HSDS) and their whip formation.

The two combatants against the Shaolin Elders will be twenty-year-old Gwok Jing from the end of LOCH, capable of withstanding a combined 600 strokes from two Greats at the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament and twenty-year-old Yeung Gor, a few months after he acquired the Heavy Iron Sword (say around the time that Little Dragon Girl started her self-imposed sixteen-year exile).

Caveat: Yeung Gor does NOT have the Heavy Iron Sword in his possession during the fight, meaning he has to rely on his skill and not the weapon.

If the duo loses, however, then we will give Yeung Gor the Heavy Iron Sword and determine if it makes a difference in the outcome.

Pre-16 HIS Yang Guo without HIS would be like Linghu Chong without sword also we should consider Yang Guo "disability" so back to the topic HIS Yang Guo featuring with LOCH Guo Jing I think would easily wipe out Du Monks since the condor with his "majestic" strength can't last more than 10 stances against HIS..

[Ken Cheng]

Pre-16 HIS Yang Guo without HIS would be like Linghu Chong without sword also we should consider Yang Guo "disability" so back to the topic HIS Yang Guo featuring with LOCH Guo Jing I think would easily wipe out Du Monks since the condor with his "majestic" strength can't last more than 10 stances against HIS..

I remember that during this brief period, Yeung Gor had some success in fighting his enemies even without pulling out the Heavy Iron Sword. While Yeung Gor's skills were still not fully developed at this point, I think his inner power was likely already very close to Greats level and surpassed that of End-of-LOCH Gwok Jing. On the other hand, End-of-LOCH Gwok Jing likely had more mature fighting skills during that stage of his development. Therefore, in this confrontation against the Shaolin Elders, Yeung Gor would supply the raw power while Gwok Jing would supply the superior fighting technique.

[Western Eccentric]

I remember that during this brief period, Yeung Gor had some success in fighting his enemies even without pulling out the Heavy Iron Sword. While Yeung Gor's skills were still not fully developed at this point, I think his inner power was likely already very close to Greats level and surpassed that of End-of-LOCH Gwok Jing. On the other hand, End-of-LOCH Gwok Jing likely had more mature fighting skills during that stage of his development. Therefore, in this confrontation against the Shaolin Elders, Yeung Gor would supply the raw power while Gwok Jing would supply the superior fighting technique.

The problem is Yang Guo didn't have any of "signature skill " after he lose his arm apart of HIS that's why he later developed Sad Palm which not only equal in "power" with HIS but also allowed him to "defy" his disability and "adjust" his fighting style..

[EdenResident]

HIS YG + LOCH GJ would beat the monks for sure. Without the HIS, I don't know how YG could attack them. At this point, YG had no palm skills and his other skills are incomplete at best (Jade Maiden sword, Finger Flick, Dog beating sticks etc.). So this combo is at best equal to MRF+YTZ.

Maybe give them a couple years for YG to develop his skills and GJ to train his internals. In 5 years, they would probably beat the monks' formation.

[Ken Cheng]

HIS YG + LOCH GJ would beat the monks for sure. Without the HIS, I don't know how YG could attack them. At this point, YG had no palm skills and his other skills are incomplete at best (Jade Maiden sword, Finger Flick, Dog beating sticks etc.). So this combo is at best equal to MRF+YTZ.

Maybe give them a couple years for YG to develop his skills and GJ to train his internals. In 5 years, they would probably beat the monks' formation.

Five years on from these points in their lives, both Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor would each be legitimate Greats-level fighters and could probably solo the formation (but even if they couldn't, the two of them together would almost be overkill against the formation).

[Western Eccentric]

Five years on from these points in their lives, both Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor would each be legitimate Greats-level fighters and could probably solo the formation (but even if they couldn't, the two of them together would almost be overkill against the formation).

Yeah if lousy-Wuji could "solo" Du Monks then i don't think Guo Jing and Yang Guo also can not doing the same thing since they are greater fighters than Wuji especially in terms of "killing skills" Wuji main "handicap"...

[EdenResident]

Five years on from these points in their lives, both Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor would each be legitimate Greats-level fighters and could probably solo the formation (but even if they couldn't, the two of them together would almost be overkill against the formation).

I beg to differ. LOCH GJ+5 years was at best equal to LOCH Greats, ie., barely better than a Du monk. No chance he could hang against 3 monks in their formation.

During the first 6 years of the 16 years, YG was mainly practicing in the waves, raising his internals to Great-level. He hadn't had developed any new non-HIS technique yet. So no way could he beat the formation either, though he would fare a lot better than GJ+5. It takes a Great-plus (ZBT, ZWJ, post-16 GJ/YG) to tie the formation. YG would have to finish Sad Palms to have a chance.

But i did say that GJ+5 + YG+5 would beat the formation. It wouldn't be overkill by any means though.

[Ken Cheng]

I beg to differ. LOCH GJ+5 years was at best equal to LOCH Greats, ie., barely better than a Du monk. No chance he could hang against 3 monks in their formation.

During the first 6 years of the 16 years, YG was mainly practicing in the waves, raising his internals to Great-level. He hadn't had developed any new non-HIS technique yet. So no way could he beat the formation either, though he would fare a lot better than GJ+5. It takes a Great-plus (ZBT, ZWJ, post-16 GJ/YG) to tie the formation. YG would have to finish Sad Palms to have a chance.

But i did say that GJ+5 + YG+5 would beat the formation. It wouldn't be overkill by any means though.

Interestingly, Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor are two Jin Yong protagonists whom we don't see at age 25. Gwok Jing turned 25 during the 13-year interregnum between LOCH and ROCH, while Yeung Gor turned 25 during the 16-year break in ROCH between the disappearance and return of Little Dragon Girl. In contrast, we saw Cheung Mo Gei peak (at least during the chronicled part of his life in HSDS) at age 25, and I believe Ling Wu Chung was around age 25 when he acquired elite skills such as Dook Goo 9 Swords and Yik Gun Ging. Based on the examples of CMG and LWC, I believe GJ and YG made the leap to Greats level by the time they reached age 25, give or take a year. I do not think that GJ had only recently achieved Greats level at the beginning of ROCH, but had been at that level for at least several years at that point. Similarly, I do not think YG was newly a Greats-level fighter when we first see him again after the 16-year narrative break, but had been at that level for at least a few years already.

[Western Eccentric]

Interestingly, Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor are two Jin Yong protagonists whom we don't see at age 25. Gwok Jing turned 25 during the 13-year interregnum between LOCH and ROCH, while Yeung Gor turned 25 during the 16-year break in ROCH between the disappearance and return of Little Dragon Girl. In contrast, we saw Cheung Mo Gei peak (at least during the chronicled part of his life in HSDS) at age 25, and I believe Ling Wu Chung was around age 25 when he acquired elite skills such as Dook Goo 9 Swords and Yik Gun Ging. Based on the examples of CMG and LWC, I believe GJ and YG made the leap to Greats level by the time they reached age 25, give or take a year. I do not think that GJ had only recently achieved Greats level at the beginning of ROCH, but had been at that level for at least several years at that point. Similarly, I do not think YG was newly a Greats-level fighter when we first see him again after the 16-year narrative break, but had been at that level for at least a few years already.

Yeah if we believe that End-LOCH Guo Jing around Pre-LOCH Greats level then logically 5-10 years later Guo Jing should be around LOCH Greats level and for Yang Guo with HIS he is equal if not better than LOCH Greats level in terms of fighting but his overall skills still a bit inferior than LOCH Greats and I believe he is reach ROCH Greats level right after he created Sad Palm (after ocean training) and slightly "overlaps" ROCH Greats level at the end of ROCH..

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah if we believe that End-LOCH Guo Jing around Pre-LOCH Greats level then logically 5-10 years later Guo Jing should be around LOCH Greats level and for Yang Guo with HIS he is equal if not better than LOCH Greats level in terms of fighting but his overall skills still a bit inferior than LOCH Greats and I believe he is reach ROCH Greats level right after he created Sad Palm (after ocean training) and slightly "overlaps" ROCH Greats level at the end of ROCH..

As of the end of LOCH, Gwok Jing was already around 70% of Greats level. At the time of Little Dragon Girl's disappearance in ROCH, Yeung Gor had attained perhaps 80% or 85% of Greats level (and perhaps up to 90% when he's using the Heavy Iron Sword). At the beginning of their adventures in wulin (a mere two years or so prior to those points in their respective careers), Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor were not even 1% of a Great. That means they made most of their advancement within a two-year span. That being the case, it's difficult to conclude that they somehow failed to close the gap between themselves and the Greats within five years of attaining between 70% - 80% of Greats level.

[Western Eccentric]

As of the end of LOCH, Gwok Jing was already around 70% of Greats level. At the time of Little Dragon Girl's disappearance in ROCH, Yeung Gor had attained perhaps 80% or 85% of Greats level (and perhaps up to 90% when he's using the Heavy Iron Sword). At the beginning of their adventures in wulin (a mere two years or so prior to those points in their respective careers), Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor were not even 1% of a Great. That means they made most of their advancement within a two-year span. That being the case, it's difficult to conclude that they somehow failed to close the gap between themselves and the Greats within five years of attaining between 70% - 80% of Greats level.

I don't think Guo Jing reach 70% of Greats during 2nd Huashan Duel given the fact that how easily Ouyang Feng beat him (looks less than 10 moves) also as for HIS Yang Guo he is 80-85% of LOCH Greats level in terms of overall skills but equal even bettered them if fighting..

[Ken Cheng]

I don't think Guo Jing reach 70% of Greats during 2nd Huashan Duel given the fact that how easily Ouyang Feng beat him (looks less than 10 moves) also as for HIS Yang Guo he is 80-85% of LOCH Greats level in terms of overall skills but equal even bettered them if fighting..

Wong Yerk See and Hung 7 Gung also did not fare well against Au Yeung Fung at that point because AYF's addled, unorthodox fighting style of no style caught all of them off guard. AYF's moves that that point were illogical to WYS, H7G, and GJ; they were utterly unpredictable. WYS and H7G were able to do a little better than GJ because of their greater experience and power, but none of them knew quite how to deal with AYF at that point.

[Western Eccentric]

Wong Yerk See and Hung 7 Gung also did not fare well against Au Yeung Fung at that point because AYF's addled, unorthodox fighting style of no style caught all of them off guard. AYF's moves that that point were illogical to WYS, H7G, and GJ; they were utterly unpredictable. WYS and H7G were able to do a little better than GJ because of their greater experience and power, but none of them knew quite how to deal with AYF at that point.

Still not change the fact that Guo Jing lose within seconds to Ouyang Feng so at that point Guo Jing should be around 60% of Greats not 70% IMHO..

[Ken Cheng]

Still not change the fact that Guo Jing lose within seconds to Ouyang Feng so at that point Guo Jing should be around 60% of Greats not 70% IMHO..

Seventy percent (at least), because when East Heretic Wong Yerk See used 70% of his ability on him, the Lord of Peach Blossom Island quickly found himself on his back footing and had to go all out just to regain the advantage. Moreover, just minutes later, Gwok Jing was able to match a full-powered Hong Lung 18 Palms strike from his teacher North Beggar Hung 7 Gung with one of his own. I think Gwok Jing would need to be at least 70% of a Great to pull such feats off.

[Western Eccentric]

Seventy percent (at least), because when East Heretic Wong Yerk See used 70% of his ability on him, the Lord of Peach Blossom Island quickly found himself on his back footing and had to go all out just to regain the advantage. Moreover, just minutes later, Gwok Jing was able to match a full-powered Hong Lung 18 Palms strike from his teacher North Beggar Hung 7 Gung with one of his own. I think Gwok Jing would need to be at least 70% of a Great to pull such feats off.

Well A Er also could match palm to palm with Wuji but is not mean he is near Wuji level right also we must remember Guo Jing is not Jinlun Fawang which always struggling with weird and bizarre technique at that point he is the only one that fully mastered 9 Yin until high degree yet Ouyang Feng "toy" him within seconds so Guo Jing should be around 60-65% of Greats at best..