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Thread: The scope of this forum?

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    Default The scope of this forum?

    Is the scope of this forum only related to Jinyong, Gulong, and other legendary classical Wuxia novels, or also can discuss the recent wuxia fictions that written by Koreans and newer Chinese writers / mangaka? Because there are a lot of new Wuxia from Korea nowaday. Like Volcanoes Age, Lightning Edges, etc. And there are also from Chinese writers, although they're not pure wuxia, but more of fantasy (like It start in a Mountain Manhua).

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    You can certainly bring it in, but whether or not it draws an audience remains to be seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsuker View Post
    Is the scope of this forum only related to Jinyong, Gulong, and other legendary classical Wuxia novels, or also can discuss the recent wuxia fictions that written by Koreans and newer Chinese writers / mangaka? Because there are a lot of new Wuxia from Korea nowaday. Like Volcanoes Age, Lightning Edges, etc. And there are also from Chinese writers, although they're not pure wuxia, but more of fantasy (like It start in a Mountain Manhua).
    I may be wrong but most of the newer stuff seems to be more Xianxia than Wuxia.

    For me, Xianxia = Bleah
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Actually no. There's still wuxia, although they're more of Wuxia that has been mixed with Fantasy rather than pure Wuxia. But there're some good new Wuxia TV Show, like Ancient Detective, Heroes (2021), and Strange Legend of Tang Dynasty (2022) that actually very good wuxia.

    For a mixed fantasy - sci-fi - Wuxia, there is also Joy of Life.

    and for Chinese Comic, if you don't mind "Fantasy genre" with Wuxia setting is It start in a mountain.

    For Korean Comic, there are several Wuxia setting with excellent stories. But mostly be combined with Isekai / Regressed, etc that popular with today audiences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsuker View Post
    can discuss the recent wuxia fictions that written by Koreans and newer Chinese writers / mangaka?
    lol, you're surely having a laugh right?

    Korean wuxias and wuxias from newer Chinese writers are basically pretty-boy/handsome-men ogle-fests and shipping-fests for female audiences. They are not wuxia.

    The same goes for xianxia, xuanhuan, mangaka, manhua, and manhwa.

    These days I know not to expect any proper story and martial-arts based wuxia with honest and down-to-earth actors (that are not male vases) like what we used to get in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsuker View Post
    Actually no. There's still wuxia, although they're more of Wuxia that has been mixed with Fantasy rather than pure Wuxia. But there're some good new Wuxia TV Show, like Ancient Detective, Heroes (2021), and Strange Legend of Tang Dynasty (2022) that actually very good wuxia.

    For a mixed fantasy - sci-fi - Wuxia, there is also Joy of Life.

    and for Chinese Comic, if you don't mind "Fantasy genre" with Wuxia setting is It start in a mountain.

    For Korean Comic, there are several Wuxia setting with excellent stories. But mostly be combined with Isekai / Regressed, etc that popular with today audiences.
    Thanks for letting me know that

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconPunch190 View Post
    lol, you're surely having a laugh right?

    Korean wuxias and wuxias from newer Chinese writers are basically pretty-boy/handsome-men ogle-fests and shipping-fests for female audiences. They are not wuxia.

    The same goes for xianxia, xuanhuan, mangaka, manhua, and manhwa.

    These days I know not to expect any proper story and martial-arts based wuxia with honest and down-to-earth actors (that are not male vases) like what we used to get in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s.
    +100 ..
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    For all fellow genuine wuxia fans, I heartily recommend Blood and Steel. The manhua stays true to the original novel, with excellent art. The original novel was written by Qiao Jingfu (the Qiao Feng of modern wuxia writers )

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/5c5ad57...6-bce4501cb9fb

    The martial arts styles are full of flavor. And Tai Chi has a wonderful depiction here. If you enjoyed the Tai Chi fight in Kung Fu Hustle*, you will love it here too.
    Last edited by Tian Chixing's Chef; 11-19-22 at 03:04 AM. Reason: Forgot the word Hustle

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    The Korean Wuxia that I mentioned is not a TV Show, but a manhwa. If you don't know what Manhwa is, it is the Korean Comic. Sometimes, they are Chinese Wuxia that drawn by Korean artists so the characters name etc become Korean. Some of them are good.

    But if you mention about newer TV Show from China that basically full of pretty boy, then actually it happen to Gu Long, Jin Yong's new version of TV adaption, too. So it just a trend from East Asian hemisphere entertainment industry. But WAIT, don't you remember Three Kingdom (2010) TV adaption? I don't think that I found any pretty boy there. It also the same as Chu Han Contention TV Adaption. And actually there is a fantasy TV show called Novoland, Eagle Flag that has the quality as good as Three Kingdoms (2010) and Chu Han Contention. I can be sure that Female audience are generally allergic with these historical TV series.

    Basically, the show that usually full of pretty boy usually from Taiwan Origin Show makers. But the Mainland usually makes Historical TV Shows like Three Kingdoms etc that has the level of quality as Japanese NHK Historical TV series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsuker View Post
    If you don't know what Manhwa is, it is the Korean Comic.
    I am aware of what Manhwa is.

    But if you mention about newer TV Show from China that basically full of pretty boy, then actually it happen to Gu Long, Jin Yong's new version of TV adaption, too.
    I am absolutely aware that it's happening in the modern TV or movie adaptations of Gu Long and Jin Yong's works. I did indicate this in my previous reply to you in this thread. It's been happening since around the early-to-mid 2000s. We saw it with Huang Xiaoming in ROCH 2006, back then everyone (the female "fans") was raving about how handsome and dreamy he was rather than talking about the actual damn show.

    Just because it's also happening to Gu Long and Jin Yong's works isn't an excuse for it, if that's what you're implying.

    So it just a trend from East Asian hemisphere entertainment industry.
    lol, it's not "just a trend". It's been happening for around 20 years now (and getting worse), the handsomeness of the male actors (especially the lead) to pander to the female audience is the priority over everything else it seems.

    I mean, take Juedai Shuangjiao, also known as The Peerless Proud Twins by Gu Long. The TV adaptations gave it cool and respectable names like The Proud Twins, The Legendary Siblings, Two Most Honourable Knights, etc. only for the 2020 version to be called "Handsome Siblings". If that's not trying to pander to and get the female audience then I don't know what is.

    (and I am aware that a 1992 movie of this work was also called Handsome Siblings, these were different times then though)

    But WAIT, don't you remember Three Kingdom (2010) TV adaption? I don't think that I found any pretty boy there. It also the same as Chu Han Contention TV Adaption. And actually there is a fantasy TV show called Novoland, Eagle Flag that has the quality as good as Three Kingdoms (2010) and Chu Han Contention. I can be sure that Female audience are generally allergic with these historical TV series.
    They are only allergic to these shows if they cannot find super good-looking men in the shows. In the Chinese and Korean newer/modern historical TV series, they are drooling over them.
    "If you have ever ogled at a handsome man in entertainment medium, you have forfeited your right to complain about women being sexualized and objectified in entertainment medium."

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    Yes, I agree that the handsomeness of those actors have surpass what we call a man as a handsome male. They're actually pretty. More like a girl than a man. But then, I think we can only blame ourselves. As nowaday, it is mostly the female audience who interest in TV Drama.

    I think there are still some TV drama that is not full of pretty boy. Like Ode to Gallantry. But It's hard to find the version with English Sub, simply because the translators think that female audience will not like it.

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    For it, I think we have to blame ourselves. As the male fans who like watching TV is like minority if compared to female audience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brainsuker View Post
    Yes, I agree that the handsomeness of those actors have surpass what we call a man as a handsome male. They're actually pretty. More like a girl than a man. But then, I think we can only blame ourselves.
    The male audience are not at fault for this when it comes to Wuxia changing favouritism towards the female audience.

    The thing I DO blame the male audience for however, is the lack of fightback and/or criticism regarding the devolving of modern Wuxia. They've all just sat back and took it on the chin without even a whimper.

    And when I say "favouritism" I don't mean that previously Wuxia was for men. Wuxia back then was for both men and women.

    As nowaday, it is mostly the female audience who interest in TV Drama.
    And you know why that is? Because the producers and directors of the shows decided to completely pander to and cater to the female audience, especially the younger ones. This actually drives a lot of the male audience away.

    You then add in all the SJW and feminist nonsense which has made it even worse, because those ideologies have basically make producers/creators terrified of making anything for the male audience when it comes to the issue of the depiction of female characters/women.

    I think there are still some TV drama that is not full of pretty boy. Like Ode to Gallantry. But It's hard to find the version with English Sub, simply because the translators think that female audience will not like it.
    And this is basically a major illustration of the problem, and that is the fact that media creators have been so indoctrinated or pressured to completely focus on the female audience, seeing them as the be-all and end-all.

    For it, I think we have to blame ourselves.
    I completely disagree on this. The reason for modern Wuxia pandering to the female audience, as explained earlier, is because the producers and directors of the shows decided to completely pander to and cater to the female audience, especially the younger ones. This actually drives a lot of the male audience away.

    As the male fans who like watching TV is like minority if compared to female audience.
    The male fans are a minority now because modern Wuxia has driven them away for the most part.

    I can guarantee you that if Wuxia stopped the handsome male/pretty boy parades and implemented and focused on the story, martial arts, fighting scenes and put more beautiful women in and them having more traditionally feminine roles, the male audience will be back.
    "If you have ever ogled at a handsome man in entertainment medium, you have forfeited your right to complain about women being sexualized and objectified in entertainment medium."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconPunch190 View Post
    The male audience are not at fault for this when it comes to Wuxia changing favouritism towards the female audience.

    The thing I DO blame the male audience for however, is the lack of fightback and/or criticism regarding the devolving of modern Wuxia. They've all just sat back and took it on the chin without even a whimper.

    And when I say "favouritism" I don't mean that previously Wuxia was for men. Wuxia back then was for both men and women.



    And you know why that is? Because the producers and directors of the shows decided to completely pander to and cater to the female audience, especially the younger ones. This actually drives a lot of the male audience away.

    You then add in all the SJW and feminist nonsense which has made it even worse, because those ideologies have basically make producers/creators terrified of making anything for the male audience when it comes to the issue of the depiction of female characters/women.



    And this is basically a major illustration of the problem, and that is the fact that media creators have been so indoctrinated or pressured to completely focus on the female audience, seeing them as the be-all and end-all.



    I completely disagree on this. The reason for modern Wuxia pandering to the female audience, as explained earlier, is because the producers and directors of the shows decided to completely pander to and cater to the female audience, especially the younger ones. This actually drives a lot of the male audience away.



    The male fans are a minority now because modern Wuxia has driven them away for the most part.

    I can guarantee you that if Wuxia stopped the handsome male/pretty boy parades and implemented and focused on the story, martial arts, fighting scenes and put more beautiful women in and them having more traditionally feminine roles, the male audience will be back.
    Thanks for explaining.

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    Thank you for all the info. Because I was thinking about making a account over here but before that I want to know the scope of this forum and found it in your post. They all my favorite and that is why I came here. I found your post on google search when I was actually for this https://www.topessaywriting.org/samples/world website online where I want to read essay samples on world topic.
    Last edited by ArthurEdwards; 01-23-23 at 11:30 AM.

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    Honestly I don't mind if the guys r pretty etc bc as viewer we want attractive leads. But I just hate when it's wuxia and fight scenes r garbage compared to the golden 80s n 90s.

    Like choreography editing camera angles etc were so well done back then.

    Now we just c CGI n slow mo. n they aren't good CGI. I like slow mo n CGI for wuxia since alot of techniques seems supernatural but use em correctly and not make the CGI look so bad like if it was from 90s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mido-Ban View Post
    Honestly I don't mind if the guys r pretty etc bc as viewer we want attractive leads. But I just hate when it's wuxia and fight scenes r garbage compared to the golden 80s n 90s.
    Then you should realize that the pretty boys/male vase exhibitions are indirectly the cause of the garbage fight scenes and garbage Wuxia, because writers/producers are prioritising the male eye candy above everything else as the female audience cannot ever not be catered to, otherwise hell hath no fury.

    And two of the reasons for the overuse of CGI and slow motion is:

    1) To create a "dramatic/amazing" effect to instantly wow the audience, which is now boring and tedious, especially the Matrix-style freezes and camera panning.

    2) Because it prevents the actors having to do traditional/old Wuxia fight chorography scenes, especially with weapons, lessening their risk of injury because you know, they don't want the guys to get their faces scarred/ruined in fear of being dismissed by the female audience. As the video resolutions are High Definition (1080p, 4K, etc.), it means that they cannot use stuntman body doubles in the same way as the old Wuxias anymore.

    Also, do remember that female audiences in general mostly want the romance stuff over everything else, which means less Wuxia and fighting scenes, instead more scenes and close-ups of the handsome men for the ladies to ogle.

    It has already gotten to the point where the pretty guys/male vases are virtually synonymous with being anti-Wuxia.
    "If you have ever ogled at a handsome man in entertainment medium, you have forfeited your right to complain about women being sexualized and objectified in entertainment medium."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconPunch190 View Post
    Then you should realize that the pretty boys/male vase exhibitions are indirectly the cause of the garbage fight scenes and garbage Wuxia, because writers/producers are prioritising the male eye candy above everything else as the female audience cannot ever not be catered to, otherwise hell hath no fury.

    And two of the reasons for the overuse of CGI and slow motion is:

    1) To create a "dramatic/amazing" effect to instantly wow the audience, which is now boring and tedious, especially the Matrix-style freezes and camera panning.

    2) Because it prevents the actors having to do traditional/old Wuxia fight chorography scenes, especially with weapons, lessening their risk of injury because you know, they don't want the guys to get their faces scarred/ruined in fear of being dismissed by the female audience. As the video resolutions are High Definition (1080p, 4K, etc.), it means that they cannot use stuntman body doubles in the same way as the old Wuxias anymore.

    Also, do remember that female audiences in general mostly want the romance stuff over everything else, which means less Wuxia and fighting scenes, instead more scenes and close-ups of the handsome men for the ladies to ogle.

    It has already gotten to the point where the pretty guys/male vases are virtually synonymous with being anti-Wuxia.
    So what does that leave for us old-school traditionalist wuxia fans? Just rewatch the old classics from the 1960s - 1990s?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    So what does that leave for us old-school traditionalist wuxia fans? Just rewatch the old classics from the 1960s - 1990s?
    In the same boat as traditional Cantonese Opera fans. There will always be a market for us but the quantity and quality will inevitably decline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    So what does that leave for us old-school traditionalist wuxia fans? Just rewatch the old classics from the 1960s - 1990s?
    If you are able to stomach the modern "Wuxia" elements (pretty boy exhibitions, romance-focusing, much less fighting scenes, CGI, slow-motion and poor fighting scenes, obnoxious media and female swooning over the handsome male actors, etc.) then you should be okay and can go ahead and watch the new "Wuxias". Even though the modern ones are practically Romance Novels for women, there might just be some fragments resembling Wuxia in it.

    And I put "Wuxia" in quotes because I really don't consider the new material to be Wuxia anymore, instead I just see them as nothing but Xianxia and Xuanhan disguised as Wuxia.

    Also as a major warning, they're starting to go in the direction of BL tones for "Wuxia". They've already been doing this with Korean drama (another sector where it completely panders and caters to female audiences), so it was only a matter of time before Chinese Wuxia went that way. BL is basically the final nail in the coffin for Wuxia.

    But regarding your question, even if you were being sarcastic, basically yes re-watch the old classics. I've seen a lot of the TVB Wuxia in my lifetime but there are always ones that I haven't seen which might show up on the TVB Action & Wuxia YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@TVBAction/playlists

    There's also a number of TVB series which I watched when I was younger that I would like to see again, one of these is The Master of Shaolin (1986) which stars Austin Wei as Hong Xiguan, which I cannot find anywhere except on the TVB Anywhere service in which I might have to subscribe to for a fee.

    Also I never watched the Asia TV Wuxias much at all in my lifetime, which means that there's loads of old series on the 亞視精選 Drama Asia YouTube channel which I have never seen before. The YouTube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/@drama_asia/playlists

    And there's also the older/classic Wuxia from other Asian countries like Taiwan, etc. which I haven't seen much of either. I was watching ROCH1998 which has Fann Wong as XLN but kind of forgot about it halfway.

    There's also plenty of old/classic martial arts movies, which many can also be considered as Wuxia, on the Wu Tang Collection YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@WuTangCollectionDope/videos

    And finally, ROCH2022 might just be okay. The actress who plays adult XLN is pretty hot so straight away that's a good marker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer
    In the same boat as traditional Cantonese Opera fans. There will always be a market for us but the quantity and quality will inevitably decline.
    That's quite a good comparison of the situation. Like you say, there will always a market for the old/classic/traditional kind of Wuxia from us, but we are now living in a society where some old elements of old/classic/traditional Wuxia will likely be very "problematic" for modern audiences. So that's another obstacle for anyone who wants to make classic/traditional Wuxia.
    "If you have ever ogled at a handsome man in entertainment medium, you have forfeited your right to complain about women being sexualized and objectified in entertainment medium."

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