Hua Shan Sect and Quanzhen Sect relation

[Brainsuker]

I think I just found from Wikipedia that historically (real history), Hua Shan sect was founded by one of seven immortal of Quanzhen, Hao Datong. A name that actually appear in the Condor Heroes series. So maybe if we link this history fact with the Mount Hua sect origin in Jinyong Wuxia series, we can assume that after the attack of Mongol army to Quanzhen in the Return of Condor Heroes, some of Quanzhen disciples moved to Mount Hua to rebuilt their temple.

With this, then we can actually associate the sect with Yang Guo's Old Tomb Family. Who know after the event of ROCH, Yang Guo came to Hua Shan to help the Quanzhen disciples with his teaching. Like imparting a bit of his Dugu Swordmanship, that later become Linghu Chong's 9 Dugu Swordmanship. But keep his principal gongfu from them.

That's why despite Mount Hua know about the 9 Dugu Swordmanship, they were ignorant to 9 Yin Shengong, Yang Guo's sad palm, etc.

What do you think about it?

[Ken Cheng]

I read somewhere that the Mt. Hua Taoist School founded by the Cheun Jen Sect's Gok Dai Tung was a different, unrelated sect from the Mt. Hua Sect of wulin fame. The Mt. Hua Sect that was notable in wulin apparently predates the Cheun Jen Sect and existed even back in DGSD times.

[Brainsuker]

Can you show me some quote in DGSD where the Mount Hua sect is mentioned? Also I found that Mount Hua sect didn't even mentioned in LOCH and ROCH; when some part of the story took place in Mount Hua. If the Mount Hua sect was exist in DGSD, then they should also mentioned in LOCH or ROCH when the 5 elders fought in Mount Hua for 9 Yin manual.

[Stance]

YG never knew DG9J and it was never mention he was able to counter all the various styles. FQY on the other hand, had detailed knowledge of DG9J and no mention of the internal training that YG did, so it couldn't have possibly come from YG.

[Brainsuker]

If YG never know DG9J, then nobody know about it. Because in ROCH, the Condor was the only successor of DGQB. And YG was the only human that it train.

[Stance]

If YG never know DG9J, then nobody know about it. Because in ROCH, the Condor was the only successor of DGQB. And YG was the only human that it train.

YG only did internal training. The Condor couldn't read or speak and the novel never stated that DG9J was passed to him via the Condor nor did he find the manual.

[Western Eccentric]

YG only did internal training. The Condor couldn't read or speak and the novel never stated that DG9J was passed to him via the Condor nor did he find the manual.

The question is Dugu himself say that HIS which make him "invincible" but in SPW Feng Qingyang told to Linghu Chong that Dugu ruling the world with his DG9S so using archeology theory Dugu Qiubai which portrayed in ROCH should be the most reliable source regarding Dugu Qiubai and his skills..

[Stance]

The question is Dugu himself say that HIS which make him "invincible" but in SPW Feng Qingyang told to Linghu Chong that Dugu ruling the world with his DG9S so using archeology theory Dugu Qiubai which portrayed in ROCH should be the most reliable source regarding Dugu Qiubai and his skills..

My view is he used the HIS along with DG9J moves. The sword was heavy which built his internals and along with the counter moves he dominated the world.

[Western Eccentric]

My view is he used the HIS along with DG9J moves. The sword was heavy which built his internals and along with the counter moves he dominated the world.

Then why he never said anything about DG9S in ROCH for someone as proud as him it seem very strange which mean ROCH Dugu Qiubai and SPW is not the same person the way JY describe him so different in both novels..

[Stance]

Then why he never said anything about DG9S in ROCH for someone as proud as him it seem very strange which mean ROCH Dugu Qiubai and SPW is not the same person the way JY describe him so different in both novels..

Well YG did say he was eccentric and hence no martial manual was passed down. Also I don't think JY had ever used the same twice for 2 different characters through out his novels?

Ch26.
Yang Guo thought to himself. "But he must have also been very eccentric and arrogant because of his unmatched talents and didn't get along with ordinary people. That was probably why he just passed away so quietly in such a desolated valley while no great stories or legends of his were told in the Martial World and no sword art manuals or apprentices of his were left behind to pass down his invisible martial arts techniques."

[Ken Cheng]

Anyone can add to the point that the Mt. Hua Taoist School founded by the Cheun Jen Sect's Gok Dai Tung and the Mt. Hua Sect of Ngok But Kwun and Ling Wu Chung were two completely separate, unrelated organizations that merely shared a geographical locations and thus, had similar names without any other connection to each other? My impression is that Gok Dai Tung's school was just a school of Taoist religion that didn't emphasize martial arts, while the more famous Mt. Hua Sect of Ling Wu Chung is a full-on martial arts sect that doesn't deal with religion.

[Western Eccentric]

Well YG did say he was eccentric and hence no martial manual was passed down. Also I don't think JY had ever used the same twice for 2 different characters through out his novels?

Ch26.
Yang Guo thought to himself. "But he must have also been very eccentric and arrogant because of his unmatched talents and didn't get along with ordinary people. That was probably why he just passed away so quietly in such a desolated valley while no great stories or legends of his were told in the Martial World and no sword art manuals or apprentices of his were left behind to pass down his invisible martial arts techniques."

Yang Guo might be arrogant and proud but he is not "invincible" very different with Dugu Qiubai he is not only proud but also "invincible" that's why for someone as proud as him to be say nothing about his martial arts seems very strange which mean there is 2 Dugu Qiubai..

[Stance]

Yang Guo might be arrogant and proud but he is not "invincible" very different with Dugu Qiubai he is not only proud but also "invincible" that's why for someone as proud as him to be say nothing about his martial arts seems very strange which mean there is 2 Dugu Qiubai..

The quote is YG talking about DGQB.

If there was 2 then that is so weird. Both with the same name and both claim to be undefeated. I wonder who would have between the 2 DGQB

[Western Eccentric]

The quote is YG talking about DGQB.

If there was 2 then that is so weird. Both with the same name and both claim to be undefeated. I wonder who would have between the 2 DGQB

That's why I use archeology theory just like bible only books from 1st century which close to jesus and his disciples era considered as a "canon" which mean Yang Guo which closer to Dugu Qiubai era than Linghu Chong/SPW should be the most reliable and authoritative source regarding Dugu Qiubai and his skills..

[Stance]

Have you seen this question to JY, when asked if YG had learnt DG9J and the answered was no.

楊過到底練成了獨孤劍法沒有？他的武功境界到底如何？（江彥肢）
金庸：有一部分因為獨孤求敗傳下來沒這麼完整，所以他的劍法沒有很強。但他的內力強過令狐沖，因為十六年在 山崖對著瀑布練習，內力甚強。

Question: Did Yang Guo manage to learn Dugu Qiubai's swordsmanship? How advanced he was in the area of martial arts?

Answer (Jinyong): Partly because Dugu Qiubai had not passed on a complete record/script, his (Yang Guo) swordsmanship was not very strong. Yet his qi energy was stronger than Linghu Chong, as he had been training in the waterfall for sixteen years.

[Western Eccentric]

Have you seen this question to JY, when asked if YG had learnt DG9J and the answered was no.

楊過到底練成了獨孤劍法沒有？他的武功境界到底如何？（江彥肢）
金庸：有一部分因為獨孤求敗傳下來沒這麼完整，所以他的劍法沒有很強。但他的內力強過令狐沖，因為十六年在 山崖對著瀑布練習，內力甚強。

Question: Did Yang Guo manage to learn Dugu Qiubai's swordsmanship? How advanced he was in the area of martial arts?

Answer (Jinyong): Partly because Dugu Qiubai had not passed on a complete record/script, his (Yang Guo) swordsmanship was not very strong. Yet his qi energy was stronger than Linghu Chong, as he had been training in the waterfall for sixteen years.

JY also said that Guo Jing would need at least 1000 stances to beat Jinlun Fawang but Yang Guo at his ultimate "desperate" mode beat the "powered -up" Jinlun only in 5 stances yet so many people believe Guo Jing > Yang Guo which mean we can't agree with every JY statement especially if the statement is not "logical"..

[Ken Cheng]

JY also said that Guo Jing would need at least 1000 stances to beat Jinlun Fawang but Yang Guo at his ultimate "desperate" mode beat the "powered -up" Jinlun only in 5 stances yet so many people believe Guo Jing > Yang Guo which mean we can't agree with every JY statement especially if the statement is not "logical"..

The way Yeung Gor killed Golden Wheel Monk was highly circumstantial. It was like a more advanced form of the six-year-old Gwok Jing, with no martial arts training or experience whatsoever, stabbing Chan Yeun Fung to death. These things happen.

[Stance]

JY also said that Guo Jing would need at least 1000 stances to beat Jinlun Fawang but Yang Guo at his ultimate "desperate" mode beat the "powered -up" Jinlun only in 5 stances yet so many people believe Guo Jing > Yang Guo which mean we can't agree with every JY statement especially if the statement is not "logical"..

Understand, but in this case, he said YG didn't learn DG9J and from the text, there's no proof that he did. So i don't see an issue with this.

[Western Eccentric]

The way Yeung Gor killed Golden Wheel Monk was highly circumstantial. It was like a more advanced form of the six-year-old Gwok Jing, with no martial arts training or experience whatsoever, stabbing Chan Yeun Fung to death. These things happen.

Yang Guo beat Jinlun with pure martial arts even without Sad Palm he would win within 200+ stances not by "accident" like Guo Jing so we can't compare it..

[Western Eccentric]

Understand, but in this case, he said YG didn't learn DG9J and from the text, there's no proof that he did. So i don't see an issue with this.

Of course Yang Guo didn't know DG9S since Dugu Qiubai best skills during his time is HIS which proclaimed by Dugu himself..