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Thread: Wong Chung Yeung and Chow Bak Tung: how did they come to be friends?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Wong Chung Yeung and Chow Bak Tung: how did they come to be friends?

    Do you find that the friendship between Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung and Chow Bak Tung to be kind of unlikely? Wong Chung Yeung was a solemn, dour guy. I can scarcely imagine him laughing. Chow Bak Tung was a merry prankster: a stiff like Wong Chung Yeung would have bored him. I can't see how they became so close. How did they even first meet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Do you find that the friendship between Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung and Chow Bak Tung to be kind of unlikely? Wong Chung Yeung was a solemn, dour guy. I can scarcely imagine him laughing. Chow Bak Tung was a merry prankster: a stiff like Wong Chung Yeung would have bored him. I can't see how they became so close. How did they even first meet?
    Well deep in his heart Zhou Botong regards Wang Chongyang as his "idol" even as a "lord" rather than just "elder brother" (though he is the one which force Wang Chongyang to become his sworn brother) so I think he would be dare to irritating Wang Chongyang with his "craftiness"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well deep in his heart Zhou Botong regards Wang Chongyang as his "idol" even as a "lord" rather than just "elder brother" (though he is the one which force Wang Chongyang to become his sworn brother) so I think he would be dare to irritating Wang Chongyang with his "craftiness"..
    I get the feeling that Wong Chung Yeung must have intervened to save Chow Bak Tung's life (or from some other terrible predicament) for Chow to worship him as he did. The deference and obeisance Chow showed to Wong seemed to suggest that Chow owed Wong some kind of life debt of loyalty.

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    Ch16 gives a slight hint.

    "That year when Wang Chongyang and I became sworn brothers he also refused in every way … Why? Do you really not know? My sworn brother Wang Chongyang’s martial art was much higher than mine; that was why he was not willing to swear brotherhood with me."

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Do you find that the friendship between Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung and Chow Bak Tung to be kind of unlikely? Wong Chung Yeung was a solemn, dour guy. I can scarcely imagine him laughing. Chow Bak Tung was a merry prankster: a stiff like Wong Chung Yeung would have bored him. I can't see how they became so close. How did they even first meet?
    How they met is easy, they had the same Sifu. As to why their Sifu would recruit two such different apprentices is simple, 'talent'. Both of them were capable of creating Great Level martial arts thus they must have been exceptionally talented.

    ZBT also seems pretty easy going when it comes to making friends as seen in him adopting GJ as his brother and becoming friends with YG.

    Jin Yong seems to like the odd couple dynamic like how Northern Beggar & Eastern Heretic are friends, with the former being very lazy in his appearance and the latter being very fastidious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    How they met is easy, they had the same Sifu. As to why their Sifu would recruit two such different apprentices is simple, 'talent'. Both of them were capable of creating Great Level martial arts thus they must have been exceptionally talented.

    ZBT also seems pretty easy going when it comes to making friends as seen in him adopting GJ as his brother and becoming friends with YG.

    Jin Yong seems to like the odd couple dynamic like how Northern Beggar & Eastern Heretic are friends, with the former being very lazy in his appearance and the latter being very fastidious.
    You mean like Wudang Heroes or Yideng disciples well as a martial "brother" they don't need to be "sworn brother" since they are "automatically" consider themselves as "brother"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    How they met is easy, they had the same Sifu. As to why their Sifu would recruit two such different apprentices is simple, 'talent'. Both of them were capable of creating Great Level martial arts thus they must have been exceptionally talented.
    I do wonder whom their teacher was. I always thought that Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung created his entire body of martial arts from scratch, and that Chow Bak Tung came along for the ride when they were both young adults.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I do wonder whom their teacher was. I always thought that Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung created his entire body of martial arts from scratch, and that Chow Bak Tung came along for the ride when they were both young adults.
    They called each other 师兄/弟 rather than 兄/弟, so it makes more sense for them to be martial brothers rather than sworn brothers. At a guess I would say their teacher was the original owner of the Ancient Tomb. If so he would have been quite the eccentric which would also explain why he had to such different apprentices.

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    It's abit weird relationship. His a sworn brother and learnt his MA from WCY.

    Ch12.

    "Zhou Botong is not a Taoist," Qi Gong replied. "He is a secular person, who was personally taught by his martial brother, Wang Chongyang."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I do wonder whom their teacher was. I always thought that Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung created his entire body of martial arts from scratch, and that Chow Bak Tung came along for the ride when they were both young adults.
    I also thought the same. ZBT got everything he knew from WCY so he was practically WCY's disciple. The "brother" thing is probable due to their age difference. Like when they first met, ZBT probably called WCY "big brother" (大哥) or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    I also thought the same. ZBT got everything he knew from WCY so he was practically WCY's disciple. The "brother" thing is probable due to their age difference. Like when they first met, ZBT probably called WCY "big brother" (大哥) or something.
    My guess, when they met, they became sworn brothers and then later WCY established Quanzhen and ZBT naturally become his MA brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    They called each other 师兄/弟 rather than 兄/弟, so it makes more sense for them to be martial brothers rather than sworn brothers. At a guess I would say their teacher was the original owner of the Ancient Tomb. If so he would have been quite the eccentric which would also explain why he had to such different apprentices.
    I thought Wong Chung Yeung built the Ancient Tomb compound himself to hide in shame after he met defeat leading the Southern Sung armies in an unsuccessful counterattack against the Jin forces some time after the death of Ngok Fei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I thought Wong Chung Yeung built the Ancient Tomb compound himself to hide in shame after he met defeat leading the Southern Sung armies in an unsuccessful counterattack against the Jin forces some time after the death of Ngok Fei.
    ROCH ch4.
    "My teacher hasn’t always been a Taoist. When he was young, he first learnt the arts and then studied martial arts, and was a respected hero in Jiang Hu, but because of his hate for Jin soldiers entering his homeland, ruining his homeland and killing his people, he carried the flag and fought the Jin, he set up a boundary, and managed to do great things in the central plains, but eventually the Jin army broke through, my teacher lost the battles, many soldiers died, and he eventually became a Taoist. He became ‘the living dead’, for a few years he lived in the tomb in our mountain, he didn’t take a step out of the tomb, his meaning was that he was alive but dead, he didn’t want to live under the same sky as the Jin scoundrels, what was called ‘bu gong dai tian’ (will not live under the same sky as one’s enemy) and it was his intention.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    ROCH ch4.
    "My teacher hasn’t always been a Taoist. When he was young, he first learnt the arts and then studied martial arts, and was a respected hero in Jiang Hu, but because of his hate for Jin soldiers entering his homeland, ruining his homeland and killing his people, he carried the flag and fought the Jin, he set up a boundary, and managed to do great things in the central plains, but eventually the Jin army broke through, my teacher lost the battles, many soldiers died, and he eventually became a Taoist. He became ‘the living dead’, for a few years he lived in the tomb in our mountain, he didn’t take a step out of the tomb, his meaning was that he was alive but dead, he didn’t want to live under the same sky as the Jin scoundrels, what was called ‘bu gong dai tian’ (will not live under the same sky as one’s enemy) and it was his intention.”
    Hmm...the way it's described suggests that Wong Chung Yeung didn't build the tomb compound itself, but that it had been present at Mt. Chung Nam for quite a long time...built by unknown parties. It does explain why it's called the *Ancient* Tomb. If Wong Chung Yeung had built it, that's fewer than fifty years before the beginning of LOCH, and it would be strange to refer to something that "new" (relatively speaking) as being "ancient."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Hmm...the way it's described suggests that Wong Chung Yeung didn't build the tomb compound itself, but that it had been present at Mt. Chung Nam for quite a long time...built by unknown parties. It does explain why it's called the *Ancient* Tomb. If Wong Chung Yeung had built it, that's fewer than fifty years before the beginning of LOCH, and it would be strange to refer to something that "new" (relatively speaking) as being "ancient."
    It might be referenced somewhere in the text, but wikipedia has this:

    "The Ancient Tomb was built by Quanzhen's founder, Wang Chongyang. Although it is called a tomb, it was actually used to store supplies and weapons in preparation for war against invaders from the Jurchen-ruled Jin Empire. The tomb is also filled with various traps and hidden rooms and serves as a hideout for the Han Chinese defenders of the Song Empire."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Tomb_Sect
    Last edited by Stance; 11-30-22 at 09:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    It's abit weird relationship. His a sworn brother and learnt his MA from WCY.

    Ch12.

    "Zhou Botong is not a Taoist," Qi Gong replied. "He is a secular person, who was personally taught by his martial brother, Wang Chongyang."
    Its not actually that uncommon even in relatively modern times. For example although Ip Man was the nominal teacher of Bruce Lee, it was actually Wong Shun Leng who was in charge of young Bruce's daily training. So it is possible that although they might have shared a teacher, for some reason the teacher delegated ZBT's training to WCY.

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