Yang Guo's Melancholy Palms the most powerful martial arts innovation in the trilogy?

[metsrus]

Seems like all of the most powerful martial arts skills and techniques came from the previous generations in the Condor Trilogy, whether it's 9 Yin, 9 Yang, 18 dragons subduing palms, or Heaven and Earth Great Shift. But Yang Guo was able to create his own technique that can rival and maybe surpassed them. What's more impressive is he only had one arm, imagine how much more power the Melancholy Palms would be if he had both arms.

[Western Eccentric]

With both hands Sad Palm wouldn't "work" since one of Sad Palm stances using empty sleeve simultaneously with palm to strike opponents that sleeve also allowed Yang Guo to "strike back" Jinlun Fawang's flying wheels..

[Ken Cheng]

With both hands Sad Palm wouldn't "work" since one of Sad Palm stances using empty sleeve simultaneously with palm to strike opponents that sleeve also allowed Yang Guo to "strike back" Jinlun Fawang's flying wheels..

It also has several more serious limitations:

1. Dependent on emotion/mood to work. This is a BIG strike against it.

2. Good for fighting, but not much else (not as versatile as 9 Yum, 9 Yeung, 1 Yeung, and other arts that have multiple applications beyond fighting).

3. Non-transferrable to other users (there goes its legacy).

4. Killed the Golden Wheel Monk under very specific circumstances, but was *not* able to overcome East Heretic Wong Yerk See's Divine Finger Snap or Chow Bak Tung's 9-Yum based skills (managed only a tie).

It's a Great-level martial art for sure, but not a beyond-level martial art like Bak Ming Sun Gung, 6 Mak Divine Swords, or the No Sword level of Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword arts (or whatever it was the Janitor Monk in DGSD used).

[Western Eccentric]

It also has several more serious limitations:

1. Dependent on emotion/mood to work. This is a BIG strike against it.

2. Good for fighting, but not much else (not as versatile as 9 Yum, 9 Yeung, 1 Yeung, and other arts that have multiple applications beyond fighting).

3. Non-transferrable to other users (there goes its legacy).

4. Killed the Golden Wheel Monk under very specific circumstances, but was *not* able to overcome East Heretic Wong Yerk See's Divine Finger Snap or Chow Bak Tung's 9-Yum based skills (managed only a tie).

It's a Great-level martial art for sure, but not a beyond-level martial art like Bak Ming Sun Gung, 6 Mak Divine Swords, or the No Sword level of Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword arts (or whatever it was the Janitor Monk in DGSD used).

1-3 agree
4. In terms of power Divine Finger ~ Sad Palm but I highly doubt Huang Yaoshi would able to "neutralize" all of 17 stances from full powered Sad Palm which mean Divine Finger only on par with "normal" Sad Palm also Sad Palm isn't about "power" but "technique" so though you might be could compete with the "power" you would hardly handle the "technique" that's why Huang Yaoshi and Zhou Botong only passively defend against Yang Guo's Sad Palm during their sparring..

[EdenResident]

ZSF's Taiji and the whole Wudang arts are easily better than Sad Palms.

ZBT's 72 Vacant Fist is on par with Sad Palms.

Sad Palms is Great-level arts for sure, but because only one person can practice it, it's pointless as an innovation. If we think of innovations as things that contribute to the advancement of the society, then I can probably list 10 arts that are better than Sad Palms in this regard.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

ZSF's Taiji and the whole Wudang arts are easily better than Sad Palms.

ZBT's 72 Vacant Fist is on par with Sad Palms.

Sad Palms is Great-level arts for sure, but because only one person can practice it, it's pointless as an innovation. If we think of innovations as things that contribute to the advancement of the society, then I can probably list 10 arts that are better than Sad Palms in this regard.

How is Wudang martial arts better than Sad Palm? Sad Palm could fight the best Martial Arts created by great level fighters and outright killed Golden Wheel Monk. Which Wudang technique did anything even close to this?

If your criteria is influence on society then Shaolin and the Beggars Guild should top the list and even Quanzhen School could give Wudang a run for its money.

[Western Eccentric]

How is Wudang martial arts better than Sad Palm? Sad Palm could fight the best Martial Arts created by great level fighters and outright killed Golden Wheel Monk. Which Wudang technique did anything even close to this?

If your criteria is influence on society then Shaolin and the Beggars Guild should top the list and even Quanzhen School could give Wudang a run for its money.

Yeah totally agree even Wudang best skills Tai Chi being useless against 9 Yin White Bone Claw..

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah totally agree even Wudang best skills Tai Chi being useless against 9 Yin White Bone Claw..

That wasn't about the quality of the martial arts, but the mindset of the practitioners. You really think Cheung 3 Fung would lose to Mui Chiu Fung?

[Western Eccentric]

That wasn't about the quality of the martial arts, but the mindset of the practitioners. You really think Cheung 3 Fung would lose to Mui Chiu Fung?

So you think Zhang Sanfeng's Tai Chi would win against Guo Jing/Yang Guo..

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

So you think Zhang Sanfeng's Tai Chi would win against Guo Jing/Yang Guo..

To start with no, but given Z3F age when he reached great level as opposed to GJ/YG then they would eventually wear him down.

[Ken Cheng]

So you think Zhang Sanfeng's Tai Chi would win against Guo Jing/Yang Guo..

He would definitely have a decent chance. I see Cheung 3 Fung as their martial arts peer. Even if he is not superior, he would also not be inferior.

[Western Eccentric]

He would definitely have a decent chance. I see Cheung 3 Fung as their martial arts peer. Even if he is not superior, he would also not be inferior.

In terms of overall skills of course Zhang Sanfeng ~ Guo Jing/Yang Guo but I doubt his Tai Chi would "work" against any of Guo Jing/Yang Guo that's why I never rated Tai Chi highly..

[Western Eccentric]

To start with no, but given Z3F age when he reached great level as opposed to GJ/YG then they would eventually wear him down.

Yeah totally agree..

[Ken Cheng]

In terms of overall skills of course Zhang Sanfeng ~ Guo Jing/Yang Guo but I doubt his Tai Chi would "work" against any of Guo Jing/Yang Guo that's why I never rated Tai Chi highly..

It would work if Cheung 3 Fung personally used it. The worst he would do against either of them would be a draw.

[Western Eccentric]

It would work if Cheung 3 Fung personally used it. The worst he would do against either of them would be a draw.

Well if Tai Chi only as good as Dragon Palm or Yiyang Zhi or Hama Gong (Toad Skills) then you cannot overcome another Greats with these type of arts throughout Trilogy only Sad Palm and Jade Maiden Sword which have ability to overcome great-level fighter..

[Ken Cheng]

Well if Tai Chi only as good as Dragon Palm or Yiyang Zhi or Hama Gong (Toad Skills) then you cannot overcome another Greats with these type of arts throughout Trilogy only Sad Palm and Jade Maiden Sword which have ability to overcome great-level fighter..

Sad Palms defeated exactly *one* Greats-level fighter (the Golden Wheel Monk), and mostly because the plot demanded that the monk die at that point. Sad Palms did not decisively defeat any other Great. Jade Maiden Sword also never decisively defeated a Great. It took Double Sword Attack (Cheun Jen Sect + Ancient Tomb Sect) to challenge the Golden Wheel Monk.

[Western Eccentric]

It would work if Cheung 3 Fung personally used it. The worst he would do against either of them would be a draw.

Well if Tai Chi only as good as Dragon Palm or Yiyang Zhi or Hama Gong (Toad Skills) then you cannot overcome another Greats with these type of arts throughout Trilogy only Sad Palm and Jade Maiden Sword which have ability to overcome great-level fighter..

[Western Eccentric]

Sad Palms defeated exactly *one* Greats-level fighter (the Golden Wheel Monk), and mostly because the plot demanded that the monk die at that point. Sad Palms did not decisively defeat any other Great. Jade Maiden Sword also never decisively defeated a Great. It took Double Sword Attack (Cheun Jen Sect + Ancient Tomb Sect) to challenge the Golden Wheel Monk.

Still no matter what it was canon that Sad Palm by himself could defeat great-level fighter which another great arts like Dragon Palm or Yiyang Zhi can't unless you combine it with another skills for example Guo Jing overall skills might be better than Jinlun but I doubt he can beat Jinlun only with his Dragon Palm same with Xiao Feng I don't think he could beat any of Murong Bo/Jiumozhi only with Dragon Palm..

[Ken Cheng]

Still no matter what it was canon that Sad Palm by himself could defeat great-level fighter which another great arts like Dragon Palm or Yiyang Zhi can't unless you combine it with another skills for example Guo Jing overall skills might be better than Jinlun but I doubt he can beat Jinlun only with his Dragon Palm same with Xiao Feng I don't think he could beat any of Murong Bo/Jiumozhi only with Dragon Palm..

Sad Palms was literally a fusion of every skill Yeung Gor had learned in his lifetime...from the little bit of Ha Mo Gung he learned from West Poison Au Yeung Fung during his childhood to Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword theories. All that was combined into the chop suey called "Sad Palms," and for all that, it carried the significant Achilles heel that its efficacy fluctuated up and down with Yeung Gor's emotional state.

[Western Eccentric]

Sad Palms was literally a fusion of every skill Yeung Gor had learned in his lifetime...from the little bit of Ha Mo Gung he learned from West Poison Au Yeung Fung during his childhood to Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword theories. All that was combined into the chop suey called "Sad Palms," and for all that, it carried the significant Achilles heel that its efficacy fluctuated up and down with Yeung Gor's emotional state.

Then what about Guo Jing's Dragon Palm without 9 Yin fusion could his Dragon Palm become so powerful yet it can't overcome Sad Palm or Jinlun's 10th Dragon/Elephant Prajna also though Sad Palm was indeed mix of "breeds" it's still considered as "single" art..