9 Yin manual was created to counter Persian's Qiankun Danuoyi?

[Brainsuker]

It happened twice in Jin Yong's canon: with Tibet's Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung and the Ming Cult's Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee.

I believe it was said that by the end of ROCH, the Golden Wheel Monk had attained a higher level in the Lama Buddhist Tibetan martial art Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung than any of its previous practitioners, including whoever created the skill. It was also said that it was theoretically possible to attain even higher levels, but that nobody would be able to accomplish such levels because people don't live that long (e.g. it would take centuries).

Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee also operated on this concept. Cheung Mo Gei attained a higher level than any previous Ming Cult Leader because the 9 Yeung Jen Ging reduced the time needed to achieve his level by multiple decades, but higher levels than even he achieved were hypothetically possible...if someone could only live 200+ years.

If no one has reach 7th level before, then it was Zhang Wu Ji who has expanded Qian Kun Shift, and the creator of 7th level himself. Because it is impossible to reach something that has not existed before.

[Brainsuker]

In the case of QKDNY, JY wrote that even the original creator did not have as much inner power as ZWJ, which is why he (the creator) could only master Level 6 and a part of Level 7. The last few paragraphs that he wrote on Level 7 was just from his creative mind and imagination, ie., he never practiced it. ZWJ of course failed to master this part and he wisely stopped pushing.

So,not even ZWJ can say he has fully mastered QKDNY.

Well, if that the case then the 7th level was not really exist. 1st, because the creator was only imagine it, and never know if his theory was right or not. If Zhang Wuji managed to reach that level, then it was Zhang Wu Ji who created that level. But if Zhang Wuji was even failed to master it, then it was not Wuji's fault. But because the creator theory was wrong, and didn't work in reality.

[Brainsuker]

Think about it. If you can create a high level martial art like Qian Kun shift with only imagine it, and never practice it, then even Wang Yuyan can create an ultimate martial art with only imagine it with her mind. As she possess a lot of martial art theory, but never practice any of them.

[Western Eccentric]

Then it is impossible for the 7th level to exist prior Wuji's era. It is either that someone created the 7th level prior Zhang Wuji (which means that the creator was also capable to perform Qian Kun Shift to 7th level), or Zhang Wuji himself created the 7th level, inspired by the scripture that he read on the island; but he thought that somebody else created it before him.

Well like I said before you need "supermassive internal energy" to fully mastered Qian Kun Shift and since no one from Ming Cult ever reach Wuji's level of internal strength so it's almost impossible for them to mastered Qian Kun Shift until highest level like Wuji not even the creator..

[Western Eccentric]

Think about it. If you can create a high level martial art like Qian Kun shift with only imagine it, and never practice it, then even Wang Yuyan can create an ultimate martial art with only imagine it with her mind. As she possess a lot of martial art theory, but never practice any of them.

Created and mastered is two different things..

[Western Eccentric]

Well, if that the case then the 7th level was not really exist. 1st, because the creator was only imagine it, and never know if his theory was right or not. If Zhang Wuji managed to reach that level, then it was Zhang Wu Ji who created that level. But if Zhang Wuji was even failed to master it, then it was not Wuji's fault. But because the creator theory was wrong, and didn't work in reality.

The theory is right but the creator never imagine something like 9 Yang which would allowed someone to get very high and profound internal art..

[EdenResident]

But if Zhang Wuji was even failed to master it, then it was not Wuji's fault. But because the creator theory was wrong, and didn't work in reality.

Yes, that is correct. It's actually wise on ZWJ's part that he didn't try to complete the faulty last couple lines that the creator imagined up. If ZWJ had not given up, he would have fire-deviated because those lines indeed wouldn't work in reality.

[metsrus]

The theory is right but the creator never imagine something like 9 Yang which would allowed someone to get very high and profound internal art..

I think this really fits in great with the theme of the opposing nature of the 9 Yin and 9 Yang manuals too. While 9 Yin was created to perhaps counter Qian Kun Shift, 9 Yang has the opposite effect by boosting and helping the Qian Kun Shift user.

[Western Eccentric]

I think this really fits in great with the theme of the opposing nature of the 9 Yin and 9 Yang manuals too. While 9 Yin was created to perhaps counter Qian Kun Shift, 9 Yang has the opposite effect by boosting and helping the Qian Kun Shift user.

Well honestly I never think that 9 Yin is the counter move of Qian Kun Shift especially since no one ever mastered it until highest level before Wuji even if I'am not wrong no one ever reach higher than 5th level let alone until 7th level..

[Ken Cheng]

Well honestly I never think that 9 Yin is the counter move of Qian Kun Shift especially since no one ever mastered it until highest level before Wuji even if I'am not wrong no one ever reach higher than 5th level let alone until 7th level..

...which kind of reinforces the idea that 9 Yum Jen Ging, if mastered, should be an effective counter to Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee. In its time, 9 Yum Jen Ging seemed to be an effective counter to just about everything, as it was overall superior to the Greats' native skills.

[Western Eccentric]

...which kind of reinforces the idea that 9 Yum Jen Ging, if mastered, should be an effective counter to Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee. In its time, 9 Yum Jen Ging seemed to be an effective counter to just about everything, as it was overall superior to the Greats' native skills.

As a better skills yes but what I mean 9 Yin is not "direct counter" for Qian Kun Shift since in L/ROCH JY never say anything about Qian Kun Shift even Wuji after learn 9 Yin also never say anything about Qian Kun Shift and how to counter it which indicate 9 Yin is not designated to counter Qian Kun Shift..

[Western Eccentric]

As a better skills yes but what I mean 9 Yin is not "direct counter" for Qian Kun Shift since in L/ROCH JY never say anything about Qian Kun Shift even Wuji after learn 9 Yin also never say anything about Qian Kun Shift and how to counter it which indicate 9 Yin is not designated to counter Qian Kun Shift..

Sorry I mean Wuji after read 9 Yin he didn't find anything about Qian Kun Shift in the 9 Yin he only say the martial arts/skills in the manual is very powerful and hard to learn but he say nothing about Qian Kun Shift..

[Ken Cheng]

As a better skills yes but what I mean 9 Yin is not "direct counter" for Qian Kun Shift since in L/ROCH JY never say anything about Qian Kun Shift even Wuji after learn 9 Yin also never say anything about Qian Kun Shift and how to counter it which indicate 9 Yin is not designated to counter Qian Kun Shift..

When Chow Bak Tung told Gwok Jing about the origins of the 9 Yum Jen Ging (LOCH), Chow said that Wong Seung created the second part of the 9 Yum Jen Ging specifically to deal with the wide array of martial arts that associates of the Ming Cult practiced. It likely also included methods that would be effective against the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee as that was the best martial art associated with the Ming Cult and Wong likely anticipated a confrontation with the Ming Cult Leader.

[Western Eccentric]

When Chow Bak Tung told Gwok Jing about the origins of the 9 Yum Jen Ging (LOCH), Chow said that Wong Seung created the second part of the 9 Yum Jen Ging specifically to deal with the wide array of martial arts that associates of the Ming Cult practiced. It likely also included methods that would be effective against the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee as that was the best martial art associated with the Ming Cult and Wong likely anticipated a confrontation with the Ming Cult Leader.

Ming Cult is not Shaolin or Wudang which have own martial arts except Qian Kun Shift I mean 9 Yin only can deal with Ming Cult's martial arts individual members (including White Bone Claw) not Ming Cult as a "sect" since Ming Cult is not martial arts "school"..

[Ken Cheng]

Then it is impossible for the 7th level to exist prior Wuji's era. It is either that someone created the 7th level prior Zhang Wuji (which means that the creator was also capable to perform Qian Kun Shift to 7th level), or Zhang Wuji himself created the 7th level, inspired by the scripture that he read on the island; but he thought that somebody else created it before him.

The creator developed the theoretical framework for the 7th Level of Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee, but lacked the inner power and the time to realize it. Cheung Mo Gei was able to realize what the creator had designed because his vast inner power made time a nonissue.