Seung Yeung Fortress: 16 years of uninterrupted peace?

[Ken Cheng]

I have a RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES question here.


During the 16-year period in which Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl were separated, did Seung Yeung Fortress really enjoy 16 years of uninterrupted peace with no Mongol attacks? I know the Mongols had some problems of their own during that time (i.e. civil war among its princes, most likely), but sixteen years is a long time to go without any action. It makes you wonder if the Gwok family ventured away from Seung Yeung at all during that time . . . maybe a visit back to the old homestead on Peach Blossom Island, etc. After all, during the long lull between Genghis Khan's death at the end of LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES and the beginning of the second phase of the Mongols' invasion of the Sung territories in ROCH, Gwok Jing and Wong Yung took a number of years off.

[LuNaR]

i am wondering how guo jing can hold sern yern by him self? does dat mean he can kill 1000 people?

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by LuNaR
i am wondering how guo jing can hold sern yern by him self? does dat mean he can kill 1000 people?

Well, no. He had the Sung army, the Beggar's Union, and assorted fighters (1 Deng's disciples, Beggar's Union elders, Wong Yung, the Mo Brothers, Gwok Fu, Yeh Lut Chai . . . dozens and dozens of others) to help him out. Nevertheless, the Seung Yeung forces were still outnumbered.

[Tian Cai]

well we can only blame the emperor at that time, he shopuld'nt need to rely on martial artists like guop jing if he was a good king and sorted out the countries defence before jumping into bed with his mistresses, but then again there both very hard to ignore.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Tian Cai
well we can only blame the emperor at that time, he shopuld'nt need to rely on martial artists like guop jing if he was a good king and sorted out the countries defence before jumping into bed with his mistresses, but then again there both very hard to ignore.

This is true. Gwok Jing and his colleagues were doomed from the start. It was a long war of attrition, and the Mongols had far better resources than Seung Yeung did. The Sung government wasn't exactly throwing its weight behind Gwok Jing and Co.'s efforts. The Sung leaders got what they deserved, but all those innocent people who had to die for their lack of foresight...

Of course, this applies to ROCH only. Historically, nobody was able to stop the Mongol juggernaut during the 13th Century (although the weather did in the seas of Japan and the snowy wastes of Russia).

[Tian Cai]

true historically they were really strong during that time but we came bak and samsh them, so i guyest in the end we han's were the one's laughing.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Tian Cai
true historically they were really strong during that time but we came bak and samsh them, so i guyest in the end we han's were the one's laughing.

That's a trend that has held up pretty consistently throughout ancient and medieval history. The steppe civilizations (i.e. the Huns, Tartars, Mongols, etc.) have always been exceptional warriors, but not particularly capable civil administrators. The so-called "barbarian" cultures of the steppes have often militarily defeated such great civilizations as the ancient Romans and Chinese, but could never rule them for very long. Cultural conquest is much more permanent than military conquest.

[Guo Xiang]

Well, but you guys have to understand that firstly, the weakening of the empire had taken place waaaay before the Mongolian invasion. Secondly, Song was never strong in military. Yes, NEVER. They were more obsessed about scholars rather than soldiers.

[Laviathan]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
I have a RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES question here.

During the 16-year period in which Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl were separated, did Seung Yeung Fortress really enjoy 16 years of uninterrupted peace with no Mongol attacks? I know the Mongols had some problems of their own during that time (i.e. civil war among its princes, most likely), but sixteen years is a long time to go without any action.

Historically, during these 16 years there were some quarrels concerning the successorship of Mongolian Khan. The Queen-Widow supported the descendants of Ogadei, while other factions favored the descendants of Tulei (namely, Mongke and Khubilai). In the end Mongke was crowned Khan and had the Queen-Widow poisoned. In the novel, this was not mentioned and it seems that during the 16 years there was still war raging between Xiangyang and the Mongols.

Originally posted by Guo Xiang
Secondly, Song was never strong in military. Yes, NEVER. They were more obsessed about scholars rather than soldiers.

Not completely true. During the times of Wang Anshi's reforms, the Song military did grew strong. And when the Song suffered the humiliating defeat by the hands of the Jin, it led to the rise of Yue Fei and Han Shizhong and the invincible Yue army.

[Tian Cai]

did mongol conquere both jin and song, they did'nt conmquere dali did they.

[Guo Xiang]

Perhaps the prowess of the armies does depends on the generals? If that's so, does it mean that Song has few talented generals?

[TaiHan]

I think they did conquer everything even Dali because they did reach europe. Because Zhu Zi Liu's(1 Deng's pupil) descendants in HSDS wasn't living Dali but on the west border of China not the south.(i got this of an adaptation so not to sure).

I would like to where is Dali like on the map. Can someone tell me? Do the people of Dali still exists?

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by TaiHan
I think they did conquer everything even Dali because they did reach europe. Because Zhu Zi Liu's(1 Deng's pupil) descendants in HSDS wasn't living Dali but on the west border of China not the south.(i got this of an adaptation so not to sure).

I would like to where is Dali like on the map. Can someone tell me? Do the people of Dali still exists?

It's in the Yunnan Province in the southwestern portion of modern China. The city of Dali is still there, and it's a popular tourist attraction/resort town today.

[Gunner]

Originally posted by Guo Xiang
Perhaps the prowess of the armies does depends on the generals? If that's so, does it mean that Song has few talented generals?

It's true the Song Dynasty wasn't really famous for its military as compared to previous Dynasties. It preferred to pursue a policy of appeasement to deal with the northern tribes and this eventually led to its downfall.

The irony is that the Song Dynasty had some of the most famous and able Generals in Chinese history like Yue Fei, Han Shizhong, the Yang Family Generals and Di Qing

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Gunner
It's true the Song Dynasty wasn't really famous for its military as compared to previous Dynasties. It preferred to pursue a policy of appeasement to deal with the northern tribes and this eventually led to its downfall.

The irony is that the Song Dynasty had some of the most famous and able Generals in Chinese history like Yue Fei, Han Shizhong, the Yang Family Generals and Di Qing

The Sung Dynasty also practiced a policy of "using barbarians against barbarians". The Sung used the Juchen to destroy the Khitan and later, used the Mongols to destroy the Juchen. This policy always ended up backfiring on the Sung.

[flyingfox2002]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
The Sung Dynasty also practiced a policy of "using barbarians against barbarians". The Sung used the Juchen to destroy the Khitan and later, used the Mongols to destroy the Juchen. This policy always ended up backfiring on the Sung.

That was the Qing Dynasty's strategy vs. the foreign powers too. hehehe. They never learn.

[Laviathan]

Originally posted by Gunner
It's true the Song Dynasty wasn't really famous for its military as compared to previous Dynasties. It preferred to pursue a policy of appeasement to deal with the northern tribes and this eventually led to its downfall.

Well, ironically the appeasement policy (paying tribute to the Liao and Xixia Empires) of the Northern Song, although it was humiliating, did improve the trade relations between the three kingdoms and eventually made the economy of the Song the most prosperous of the world during that era. So in terms of international economy it was a great thing to do, but in terms of military and national pride it sucked.

[Tian Cai]

who was that zhu(yi deng pupil's descendaent) guy in hsds where did he come into the frame, was he one of those 3 monks who tied with zhang wuji.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Tian Cai
who was that zhu(yi deng pupil's descendaent) guy in hsds where did he come into the frame, was he one of those 3 monks who tied with zhang wuji.

No. I forget this guy's name (I think it was Chu Chung Ling, but I honestly don't remember), but he was the one whose daughter's (Chu 9 Jen) ferocious dog bit Cheung Mo Gei. The Chus then tricked Cheung Mo Gei into revealing Golden-Haired Lion King Tse Tsun's location to them. When Cheung Mo Gei learned of the plot, he tried to escape, but Chu chased him into the mountain cave where Cheung Mo Gei found the gorilla that carried the 9 Yeung Jen Ging under its skin.

[Tian Cai]

ok i see but he sure did'nt no 1 yang zi. Pathetic descedants.