Li XunHuan without his dagger

[Temujin]

Originally posted by TigerWong
Well said. That's why I don't think you'll ever see LXF catch LXH's dagger. Either the dagger will hit or it would never have been released.

But before one thinks that LXH is at the mercy of chance when it comes to these dagger releasing opportunities, one should keep in mind that because of his speed, throwing power, accuracy, and awareness LXH should be able to find/create these opportunites quite frequently unless he meets an opponent who is truly more skilled.

Thus, I think we can conclude that LXH, although possesses a pretty good qinggong and excellent martial arts, but without his mighty dagger, will not stand a a chance against other top Gu Long Heroes or Villains.

Without the dagger, LXH is like a Sniper without a bullet.

The reason why the dagger never misses is because Li Tan Hua only releases it when he knows there's a 100% chance it will hit.

[Vicious]

Originally posted by Temujin
Thus, I think we can conclude that LXH, although possesses a pretty good qinggong and excellent martial arts, but without his mighty dagger, will not stand a a chance against other top Gu Long Heroes or Villains.

Without the dagger, LXH is like a Sniper without a bullet.

The reason why the dagger never misses is because Li Tan Hua only releases it when he knows there's a 100% chance it will hit.

Yes, i think we can also conclude that LXH wont stand a chance against them without his arm. Or his leg. In fact he'll be totally vurnable if LXH didn't have his fingers with him, kinda like a parachuter with his parachute. (sorry just couldn't resist.)

[Meh]

Thus, I think we can conclude that LXH, although possesses a pretty good qinggong and excellent martial arts, but without his mighty dagger, will not stand a a chance against other top Gu Long Heroes or Villains.

Well, very few GL weapon-users can come close to their full potential without their weapons. Shen Lang comes to mind... and that's all I can think of right now.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by Temujin
Thus, I think we can conclude that LXH, although possesses a pretty good qinggong and excellent martial arts, but without his mighty dagger, will not stand a a chance against other top Gu Long Heroes or Villains.

The emphasis is on top fighters. But that's true of any fighter who mainly uses weapons. Take away FCY or LWC's sword and you can say the same thing. I don't understand why people always focus on LXH's dagger.

The reason why the dagger never misses is because Li Tan Hua only releases it when he knows there's a 100% chance it will hit.

You make it sound like he's waiting around for this "100% chance", but the fact is he is also the one who can create these chances and that is based on his skill as a martial artist.

[superboy]

The emphasis is on top fighters. But that's true of any fighter who mainly uses weapons. Take away FCY or LWC's sword and you can say the same thing. I don't understand why people always focus on LXH's dagger.

Probably because many of JY's heros are still all very powerful without their weapons. LXH's daggers just gives people more attention to it.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by superboy
Probably because many of JY's heros are still all very powerful without their weapons. LXH's daggers just gives people more attention to it.

And many of GL heroes are very powerful w.o. weapons too (i.e. Yu PeiYu). Sure, GL has a lot of heroes who specializes in a weapon, but whats the point of comparing those types to all-around fighter types.

Of course, LXH will be weaker w.o. his dagger. That's just logical. Just like anyone who mainly specializes in a weapon would be weaker w.o. one. But it's not like LXH is a complete weakling (he's still decent), just weaker. How powerful would FCY be w.o. his sword? Or even DQKB for that matter (before he reached his ultimate stage), what if he didn't have a weapon? I just don't see what the big deal is.

[superboy]

I say most people might subconciously compare the characters of Jin Yong with GL's . The dagger never missing gives people allthose type of ideas it seems, wether it's common or not.

[Vash|7ds]

Dagger Li without his dagger is no more than Mr. Li and Mr. Li would sell fruits and serve tea at the corner store.

[Trinie]

I think Li Xun Huan even without his dagger wouldn't be selling fruits or serving tea on a sidewalk!! He still has martial arts skills and his Qing Gong. I don't think that it is the dagger itself, but it is the person who uses it and how skilled they are. If you gave just anyone the dagger, who would be scared of it??? What matters is the person who uses it.

[CC]

OK I know its wuxia fantasy but...

Realistically, for Li to have a 100% chance whenever he releases his dagger because he will only throw it when he won't miss is asking for perfection isn't it?

If there is an opponent with good enough skills, Li might see what he thinks is an opening when there isn't because the opponent is more skilled then Li estimates.

Its quite unreasonable to expect Li to be 100% perfect in his judgement all the time. Its just that he never met a fighter powerful enough that he could not properly judge.

[luna_rainbow]

I agree. Amongst the top GL fighters, there must be someone with enough guile to be able to fool LXH into throwing his dagger at the wrong times. On the other hand, because of the legendary status LXH's dagger is given, there's also psychological pressure on his opponent which is to LXH advantage.

As for LXH without his dagger, someone had pointed out before his fight with Long XiaoYun...so he is quite capable of holding his own without using the throwing knife.

[minutemanwayne]

A while back during this discussion, someone posted that there was a fighter who was able to prevent Li XunHuan from releasing his dagger. Which fighter was this?

[superboy]

One time LXH's friend betrayed him and grabbed his hand from behind, then his enemies knock him to the Ground. Other than being prevented, no one ever dodged it.

[Ken Cheng]

Wayne:

This has *nothing* to do with Lee Chum Foon and his dagger, but . . .

nice avatar!

[minutemanwayne]

Yea the ladies love it

Back on topic. I seem to remember something about that fighter. In the fight between him in Li XunHuan, LXH won. But afterwards, LXH commented that that fighter could of prevented him from releasing his dagger.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by CC
OK I know its wuxia fantasy but...

Realistically, for Li to have a 100% chance whenever he releases his dagger because he will only throw it when he won't miss is asking for perfection isn't it?

If there is an opponent with good enough skills, Li might see what he thinks is an opening when there isn't because the opponent is more skilled then Li estimates.

Its quite unreasonable to expect Li to be 100% perfect in his judgement all the time. Its just that he never met a fighter powerful enough that he could not properly judge.

I choose to believe that when Li releases his dagger it will hit it's mark. 100% of the time. Without fail.

Is it unreasonable to believe this? Probably, but realism has it's limits in wuxia fantasy. Especially GL's fantasy world. But more importantly, that principle is what makes him who he is. At the risk of sounding too Gu Long'ish: If the dagger was released and didn't hit it's mark, LXH wouldn't be LXH. He'd just be some dude who happens to be really, really good with the dagger.

I think someone asked in one novel how LXH can be so skilled. The dagger is part of his Being and driven by his Heart. You can look at it as something mystical, being one with the Universe, the Will of God, whatever. (Not to say that the dagger is mystical or that all he needs to do is let go randomly and it will somehow find it's mark) It may be an irrational thing to believe, but I think it follows the mythological essence of a GL hero. And LXH is not just a GL hero, but a legend among GL heroes.

Of course, this is just how I interpret his character. Obviously, there are no hard facts either way. But if I must present a more realistic outlook, then I would say that while I can think of well over a dozen fighters who can prevent him from releasing the dagger and defeat him, I don't see anyone being so much above LXH's judgment and empathic link with his dagger as to cause him to miscalculate his throw.

I'm sure many have tried to test this. And we know the outcome of at least one person's attempt.

[KJ]

Wayne,
I believe that character is ShangGuan Jing Hong. He just wanted to test the dagger, but could've prevented it from being thrown in the first place. However, he got killed by it.

[Temujin]

Originally posted by TigerWong
You make it sound like he's waiting around for this "100% chance", but the fact is he is also the one who can create these chances and that is based on his skill as a martial artist.

You're right. LXH himself is also a master at creating an opening and finding himself the right moment to throw his flying dagger at the right time and the right spot with 100% accuracy.

So, any of his opponents who could prevent him from creating an opening, either by moving faster than him, making him confused, or overpowering him either physchologically or physically will have a chance to defeat LXH.

Once the dagger is out, you're dead.

Therefore, without the dagger, he's not as lethal, like a tiger losing its teeth.

[tape]

TigerWong's comment about LXH wouldn't be LXH if he missed made me wonder something. LXH doesn't seem to be the type of person to quest for fame or worry about his reputation, but do you think he would rather die than to release his dagger without a 100% chance? Say he knew he only had a 50% chance of hitting, and if he didn't try, he would die. However if he tried and it's blocked, his reputation would be ruined forever. Do you think he would risk his reputation or rather die?

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by Temujin
Once the dagger is out, you're dead.

Once the dagger is out, it'll hit it's mark. How much damage it'll do is a separate matter.

Therefore, without the dagger, he's not as lethal, like a tiger losing its teeth.

Yes, he'll be less lethal (but still good). So would any other weapon fighter who loses his weapon. There really isn't anything remarkable about this.