Li XunHuan without his dagger

[Temujin]

I'm not a Gu Long fan, but lately after reading Meh's Xiao Li Fei Dao translation, I am starting to like Gu Long, although I still think that Gu Long novels can only be read once because it deals a lot with mystery and great intriques, therefore they lose their eternal reading value like Jin Yong's novels, which can be re-read over and over. But that's just my opinion.

My background in Gu Long's novels is also limited, so far, I've only read the translations in these forums, and the Twins comic version, watched the old XLFD adaptation from the 70s, The Twins, Adam Cheng's Chu Lu Xiang, Damian Lau's God of Sabre (or something like that), some of the old LXF, some of the newer MCW's CLX, and parts of other lousy adaptions which I couldn't finish.

On Li Xun Huan in particular, it's always hard to define his skills, since he seems to be able to pull out his dagger and gather his strength at the last minute and at the right time, not to mention no one was able to see how fast his dagger is, it's faster that your eyes can see, because we always see that it was in his hand and suddenly it's in his opponents' throats.

Another thing ... 'The Dagger Never Misses.'

So, here's a simple question for Gu Long experts out there...



How great is Li Xun Huan without his dagger ?

Without his dagger, will he have a chance against other proven heroes like Yu Pei Yu, Ding Pang, Shen Lang, Chu Lu Xiang, Lu Xiao Feng, etc ?

[luna_rainbow]

Well, against Yu PeiYu, Ding Pang and Shen Lang I don't think he was ever in the same league to start with. Maybe Ding Pang...what's he without his sabre (there seems to be little mention of his other skills)? But YPY and SL are both "anything goes" types, ie. they don't need a specific weapon with them.

Back to LXH: there were mentions that he is actually very good with qinggong as well, just that it was "overshadowed" by his skills with throwing knives. In fights, he is not easily moved and approaches situations calmly and logically. For important scheduled fights, he also plans and check out the place. He's not someone to take his enemies lightly...so all these qualities make him a very good fighter, but really, apart from qinggong there were little mention on his other abilities (maybe he has good strength/inner strength as well, to throw the knife?) - but that's the same case with Chu LiuXiang and Lu XiaoFeng as well.

[JigSta]

Li Xun Huan without his dagger is not much. Although he did have quite good qinggong which was mentioned a number of times in the novel. One of his biggest strength is the one luna_rainbow mentioned. He approaches situations calmly and logically. Extremely smart and wise. In that respect he is alot like LXF and CLH. Their "brains" give them their edge.

His technique WAS awesome though. The technique itself seemed to utilize his inner power extremely well, hence the speed of his dagger. But yeh, I'm just speculating this bit

[CC]

So if you put Dagger Li without his dagger and XMCX without his sword and Fu Hong Shue without his sabre it would make an interesting fight eh?

[TristeCoeur]

As some people have already said...

How great is Li Xun Huan without his dagger ?

He will run away as fast as the wind blows...

[Trinie]

From what I heard,Li Xun Huan is actually still pretty good fighter even without his dagger.It's just that his dagger makes him a lot stronger. But he is actually still ok without it. I am not sure though....

[CFT]

He's got very fast hands and reflexes ..... in Chapter 7 he catches 3 hidden projectiles at close range; shot at him by the younger Long Xiao Yun.

He also uses a lightning fast palm strike to eliminate/destroy the inner power of Long Xiao Yun (the kid). In the original text the palm stike looks like it is an empty (hui) strike but it's speed seems to be inhuman.

I'd say that his unarmed combat skills are in the top rank. Obviously his inner power is not to be underestimated either, which is reflected in his hing gong. In all, his combat experience, attention to detail, self-awareness makes him a deadly fighter. Also since his fame is in his dagger, people underestimate his other attributes.

----- Notes about his dagger -----

Although he requires a weapon to be truly outstanding and deadly, he does not require a specially forged weapon, just an ordinary dagger forged by any village blacksmith. However, I seem to remember that the blades are extremely thin so that the blade "parts the air" without a sound.

In "The Sword and the Exquisiteness", it is mentioned that Lee had reached the stage where there is no dagger only the throw/action (jiu/zhao), similar I think to when Sheung Gwoon Gum Hong says that he has no rings in his hand only in his heart. And yet this was deemed inferior to when Yu PeiYu demonstrated a sabre technique with no technique .... there was only the sabre.

Getting a bit esoteric ....

[TristeCoeur]

Is this just me or all fighters in GL novels all advertise the "technique of no technique" crap ? "Oh he's too fast nobody can see him, even the damn author". "Oh he's so powerful, but nobody knows how powerful he is, but he's powerful, mmmkay ?". Describe some real kungfu for f's sake. And fight with your arms, legs, weapons, whatever; just cut the bullshit and stop fighting with your mouths.

/ends rant

[CFT]

Originally posted by TristeCoeur
Is this just me or all fighters in GL novels all advertise the "technique of no technique" crap ? "Oh he's too fast nobody can see him, even the damn author". "Oh he's so powerful, but nobody knows how powerful he is, but he's powerful, mmmkay ?". Describe some real kungfu for f's sake. And fight with your arms, legs, weapons, whatever; just cut the bullshit and stop fighting with your mouths.

/ends rant

Yoo talkin' ta me ?!!

[Temujin]

Originally posted by CC
So if you put Dagger Li without his dagger and XMCX without his sword and Fu Hong Shue without his sabre it would make an interesting fight eh?

We can add Ding Pang without his sabre as well.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by CFT
In "The Sword and the Exquisiteness", it is mentioned that Lee had reached the stage where there is no dagger only the throw/action (jiu/zhao), similar I think to when Sheung Gwoon Gum Hong says that he has no rings in his hand only in his heart. And yet this was deemed inferior to when Yu PeiYu demonstrated a sabre technique with no technique .... there was only the sabre.

I doubt the General Li in TSATE is the same Dagger Li. The description is different, GL hasn't written Dagger Li yet, and TSATE takes place way before Dagger Li.

Originally posted by TristeCoear
Is this just me or all fighters in GL novels all advertise the "technique of no technique" crap ? "Oh he's too fast nobody can see him, even the damn author". "Oh he's so powerful, but nobody knows how powerful he is, but he's powerful, mmmkay ?". Describe some real kungfu for f's sake. And fight with your arms, legs, weapons, whatever; just cut the bullshit and stop fighting with your mouths.

It's just you. Not all fighters in GL novels are like that. No technique is one thing, "he's too fast nobody can see him" is another. GL has both types. There are also plenty of GL fighters with "real kung fu" and GL describes the names of the stances and goes into great detail with the battles.

[PJ]

Me got one question: Li Xunhuan without dagger is inferior to Shangguan Jinhong, right? But with dagger, LXH is superior to SGJH, right? Or could SGJH still defeat daggered LXH if he really tried?

[Han Solo]

I hope Tiger Wong corrects me.

My impression was that SGJH is superior to LXH. He only lost because he wanted to test out the speed of the dagger.

[duy]

yea i feel the same too, because i jus reread Condor In November, n i remembered YK said that Lee admitted that SGJH is better than him and has a lot of chance to kill him in their fight, but he want to test if he could avoid the dagger and that led to his defeat.
jjus t my 2c

[PJ]

I think you are correct - SGJH made the mistake to test the dagger. I guess the question boils down to, in a fair fight is there anyway LXH can kill SGJH with his dagger? Or does he have no chance?

[Meh]

He has no chance if SGJH actually was just intent on killing him. The reason why Little Li's Flying Dagger never misses is because LXH only uses the dagger when his opponent has no chance of dodging the dagger, not because the dagger has some mystical properties to it. Just like a sniper would not attempt to shoot at his target unless he knows the bullet would kill the target. It's for this reason why LXH would unleash his dagger at unexpected times, when his opponent is least expecting it.

It really is impossible to judge how LXH would fare against top opponents without the dagger. Because it's always been a moot point. LXH will ALWAYS have his dagger. Just like you never run out of bullets in lots of video games because it isn't real life. Of course, if LXH has one dagger, it's enough. If one's good enough to dodge one, then he should easily kick LXH's butt.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by Meh
He has no chance if SGJH actually was just intent on killing him. The reason why Little Li's Flying Dagger never misses is because LXH only uses the dagger when his opponent has no chance of dodging the dagger, not because the dagger has some mystical properties to it. Just like a sniper would not attempt to shoot at his target unless he knows the bullet would kill the target. It's for this reason why LXH would unleash his dagger at unexpected times, when his opponent is least expecting it.

Well said. That's why I don't think you'll ever see LXF catch LXH's dagger. Either the dagger will hit or it would never have been released.

But before one thinks that LXH is at the mercy of chance when it comes to these dagger releasing opportunities, one should keep in mind that because of his speed, throwing power, accuracy, and awareness LXH should be able to find/create these opportunites quite frequently unless he meets an opponent who is truly more skilled.

[PJ]

I am interested in whether LXH would resort to his dagger if he has ZERO chance of winning otherwise. For example if he was up against Xiaoyao Hou, he probably would be killed pretty quickly. Would unleashing his dagger actually worsen the situation, e.g. giving opponent a better chance to attack? If not, I can hardly imagine LXH would just wait for death.

[CC]

Originally posted by PJ
I am interested in whether LXH would resort to his dagger if he has ZERO chance of winning otherwise. For example if he was up against Xiaoyao Hou, he probably would be killed pretty quickly. Would unleashing his dagger actually worsen the situation, e.g. giving opponent a better chance to attack? If not, I can hardly imagine LXH would just wait for death.

Li isn't suicidal so I think that if he thought the situation was hopeless, he would resort to his qing gong and run.

Now if he was trapped I guess he has nothing to lose if he fings that dagger anyway.

[CFT]

Originally posted by TigerWong
I doubt the General Li in TSATE is the same Dagger Li. The description is different, GL hasn't written Dagger Li yet, and TSATE takes place way before Dagger Li.

You're absolutely right!! I don't know why I remembered it as Dagger Lee. Any idea who this General Li is they're refering to?