No Greats in HSDS?

[Arching_Hero]

Why there are no Greats in HSDS?

[rabadi]

There was a saying, though. "South Xiao Feng, North Murong" or something like that. So, in a sense perhaps Xiao Feng and Murong Bo were considered the Greats of DGSD.

[rabadi]

Ooopsss... sorry, please ignore my answer above. I thought you were asking about DGSD.

As for HSDS, I have no idea.

[Ken Cheng]

During that long century between the end of ROCH and the beginning of HSDS, only *one* truly superior fighter emerged: Cheung 3 Fung. For decades, he was simply the best; nobody else was even in the same neighborhood in terms of martial arts depth. Only in the HSDS era, when Cheung 3 Fung was 100 years old, did his own grandstudent Cheung Mo Gei emerge as his only possible challenger (there's also Lady Yeung of the Ancient Tomb Sect, but there's not enough data on her to confirm that she also qualifies for "Great" status).

So as far as having four or five Greats like in the L/ROCH era, it was out of the question during the time of HSDS.

[superboy]

Yes, I think general fighters of HSDS are not as talented as the ones in LOCH and ROCH.

[ToOn99]

Originally posted by superboy
Yes, I think general fighters of HSDS are not as talented as the ones in LOCH and ROCH.

that is nothing to do with talent, it is just simply because in HSDS era, all superior martial arts skills were already vanished.

[LuNaR]

how bout those 2 guys that always stood by Zhao Min and Yang Xiao (Former Ming Leader) do they qualify?

[superboy]

What superior skills? Ain't things like HL18Z and 1ZY etc still there? And new skills where also created or introduced.

[superboy]

Originally posted by LuNaR
how bout those 2 guys that always stood by Zhao Min and Yang Xiao (Former Ming Leader) do they qualify?

Not even close. They were talented martial artists in HSDS, but they can't really compare to the Greats.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by LuNaR
how bout those 2 guys that always stood by Zhao Min and Yang Xiao (Former Ming Leader) do they qualify?

Not even close. The Yeun Ming Elders and the Ming Cult's Heralds of Light and Guardian Lords were good fighters, but there was a *huge* gap between them and the likes of Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei (to use an LOCH analogy, Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei would be equivalent to the Greats while the Yeun Ming Elders and the Ming Cult's Heralds of Light and Guardian Lords would be comparable to Mui Chiu Fung).

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by superboy
What superior skills? Ain't things like HL18Z and 1ZY etc still there? And new skills where also created or introduced.

Hong Lung 18 Palms and 1 Yeung Finger Technique still existed, but both skills seemed to have become severely debased (mainly due to inept users) by the time of HSDS. Beggar's Union Chief See For Lung nearly crippled himself learning only 15 of the 18 palms (or was it 12 of 18?). The only practitioners of 1 Yeung Finger Technique in HSDS were the descendants of the Chu and Mo families, and those folks probably didn't master the skill as well as their ancestors did, never mind the Dali Royal Family of Deun.

[Arching_Hero]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
Not even close. The Yeun Ming Elders and the Ming Cult's Heralds of Light and Guardian Lords were good fighters, but there was a *huge* gap between them and the likes of Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei (to use an LOCH analogy, Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei would be equivalent to the Greats while the Yeun Ming Elders and the Ming Cult's Heralds of Light and Guardian Lords would be comparable to Mui Chiu Fung).

This mean only Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei only equivalent to the Greats ?? not even Zhou Zhi Rou who has learned 9Ying Jen Zhing?? or other fighters....

[superboy]

Yeah, that pretty much suggests that the users are getting worst and worst.

[superboy]

ZZR did not even mastered 9 Yin. She is not even close to being a Great. ZWK probably don't have the experience neither. I personally think only Z3F qualify.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Arching_Hero
This mean only Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei only equivalent to the Greats ?? not even Zhou Zhi Rou who has learned 9Ying Jen Zhing?? or other fighters....

I seem to have to repeat this every few months, but oh well . . .

Chow Chi Yerk was *never*, *never*, *NEVER* remotely in the class of Cheung 3 Fung or Cheung Mo Gei. She only had the *illusion* of being that powerful because her 9 Yum White Bone Claws were so strange, unpredictable, and vicious. In reality, Chow Chi Yerk's martial arts after her crash-course 9 Yum Jen Ging training managed to reach a level approximately equal to that of each of the Mo Dong Heroes (i.e. Cheung Mo Gei's uncles). Remember: Cheung Mo Gei *let* Chow Chi Yerk win their fight at the Shaolin Temple. When it came time to challenge the three Shaolin Elder Monks (Do Geep, Do Ngak, and Do Ngan), Chow Chi Yerk was exposed as a fraud when she wasn't even able to enter the battle arena because of the overwhelming chi energy generated by Cheung Mo Gei and the Shaolin Elder Monks.

So the basic answer is this: the Greats of HSDS would include Cheung 3 Fung, Cheung Mo Gei, and *maybe* Lady Yeung.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
During that long century between the end of ROCH and the beginning of HSDS, only *one* truly superior fighter emerged: Cheung 3 Fung. For decades, he was simply the best; nobody else was even in the same neighborhood in terms of martial arts depth. Only in the HSDS era, when Cheung 3 Fung was 100 years old, did his own grandstudent Cheung Mo Gei emerge as his only possible challenger (there's also Lady Yeung of the Ancient Tomb Sect, but there's not enough data on her to confirm that she also qualifies for "Great" status).

So as far as having four or five Greats like in the L/ROCH era, it was out of the question during the time of HSDS.

Ken,

What about GX? Granted that we never see her "in action" during her peak, but she must be one awesome fighter and martial theorectician to found Emei into the shape that it was in HSDS.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Han Solo
Ken,

What about GX? Granted that we never see her "in action" during her peak, but she must be one awesome fighter and martial theorectician to found Emei into the shape that it was in HSDS.

Not only do we not see Gwok Seung in action, she's technically not part of the HSDS era (her cameo in the novel took place in the time of ROCH, not HSDS proper). She died decades before the real action of HSDS began, so based on those two points, I would not include her on this roster.

Now whether or skills rivaled those of Cheung 3 Fung's when they were both younger is an entirely different matter...

[Guo Xiang]

Originally posted by rabadi
There was a saying, though. "South Xiao Feng, North Murong" or something like that. So, in a sense perhaps Xiao Feng and Murong Bo were considered the Greats of DGSD.

Hmm OT but it's 'North Qiao Feng, South Murong'. ^__^

[linghuchong]

Talking about the DGSD era, there are far more people that are within/higher the "greats" level then there is compared to any other novel.....

MurongBo
KMZ
DY
XZ
XF
XYS
Sweeper monk (far superior compared to the greats)
Murongfu (arguable that he dosent deserve it)
DYH

I guess its back to the question that the ppl from the "dgsd" era seem to be alot stronger than the other eras!

[Meh]

You left out two of the most powerful fighters in DGSD, Tian Shan Tong Lao and Li Qui Shui. Ding Chun Qiu should also rank up there. DGSD definitely have by far the greatest collection of fighters in any JY novel.

Actually, one could consider that the decline of martial arts started in ROCH. After all, after Yang Guo(and perhaps Xiao Long Nu), no other fighter had potential to be on par with the greats. YeLi Qi was probably the third best youngster in the era, and he only managed to learn 15 of the 18 dragon palms. Then there was a resurgence during HSDS, when Zhang San Feng and Zhang WuJi appeared. But based on Er Mei and Wu Dang's levels in State of Divinity, it's obvious that ZWJ never did manage to pass on his skills to later generations.