Xiao Feng vs Yang Guo

[Ken Cheng]

I think the same could be said when GWM received GJ's palms without taking a step back. YG was standing in front of him talking trash, and GWM couldn't do anything since he was preoccupied with circulating his internal energy. If GJ could just sent a 2nd and 3rd palm, and GWM would have be dead.

This is where Gwok Jing's greatest virtue might become his most glaring weakness. If Gwok Jing realized how badly hurt the Golden Wheel Monk was, he would never continue to attack. Gwok Jing was too honorable and moral to attack an injured opponent, and would likely let the Golden Wheel Monk go...perhaps offering the monk another match after he had recovered. An additional two or three palms by Gwok Jing would indeed have ended the Golden Wheel Monk's threat then and there, but it would have been absolutely against Gwok Jing's principles to launch those additional palm attacks.

Although without YG and XLN, GJ wouldn't have this opportunity.

In Yeung Gor's early days, before he became a significant martial artist himself, he was always most effective by being the good guys' monkey wrench. In a way, young Yeung Gor was like Robin to Gwok Jing's Batman. His martial arts skills were still developing, but his wits enabled him to always throw a spanner in the bad guys' works, often saving the good guys in the process. I like him best when he's doing these things.

[druid]

I am netural to both persons... neither do i "support" XF or YG but here are my two cents worth of both person... but should a fight really occurs...

My pick= XF

[Xiao_Long_nu]

Duguxiaojing is quite correct..in the sense...and i thought i remember in the novel RoCH...JY once stated that Sad Palms was better then XL18Z...

[druid]

but there was a difference in XF and GJ XL18Z yes? if so... then we still cant be sure if sad palms>= XL18Z

[Xiao_Long_nu]

but there was a difference in XF and GJ XL18Z yes? if so... then we still cant be sure if sad palms>= XL18Z

ya these can be sure...GJ did modify XL18Z..but that was the 3rd edition of RoCH..is it..?

[yittz]

You thought you remember??

Surely you are not using that as evidence to support YG. Quote where you read it or give the reference.

HYS said that only GJ's XL18Z can match YG's sad palm. To me that suggests GJ's XL18Z is equal or greater than YG's sad palm.

The question is when was the last time HYS saw GJ. Doesn't he avoid GJ and HR? And even if he sees them, how can he accurately judge? (chances of seeing him fight and I dont see how can judge based on GJ palming a soldier a few feet back).

My point is: Is HYS's judgement outdated? Can GJ possibly improved in that time.

Then again even if there is improvement within that time, it's likely to be insignificant with regards to the statement he made.

[Xiao_Long_nu]

You thought you remember??

Surely you are not using that as evidence to support YG. Quote where you read it or give the reference.

HYS said that only GJ's XL18Z can match YG's sad palm. To me that suggests GJ's XL18Z is equal or greater than YG's sad palm.

The question is when was the last time HYS saw GJ. Doesn't he avoid GJ and HR? And even if he sees them, how can he accurately judge? (chances of seeing him fight and I dont see how can judge based on GJ palming a soldier a few feet back).

My point is: Is HYS's judgement outdated? Can GJ possibly improved in that time.

Then again even if there is improvement within that time, it's likely to be insignificant with regards to the statement he made.

its because i remember seeing it from somewhere in the novel..i was intending to read the book another time but i am too busy..,maybe when i get the evidence i'll inform u then....

[duguxiaojing]

I thought I read that it also said that JLFW's gong li is stronger. gong li is not physical strength.

Na it's Strength. I cut the direct text out its in the page back. And GJ is not inferior to GWM in inner power either. SB used to argue that GJ could not be below GWM after 16 years because in novel it is stated that although GWM had more years of cultivation Gj had come across more fortunate encounters...or something like that.

I'm guessing that it was an abandoned turtle shell that he used, with its occupant long since deceased? I'm not Yeung Gor's biggest fan, but I do think he has the decency to not torture some poor animal like that

LoL....im not sure..never thought of wheather the turtle was alive. IIRC the text says it was the shell of a large sea turtle so im assuming it was dead...i hope so for YG's sake he already gets hated on as it is..

My point about not using Sad Palm is that someone earlier said that YG was able to handle ZBT without Sad Palm.

OIC..my bad...srry never read the post b4 yours...so when i read what you wrote i was like what kinda argument is that...

Fine, I'll scratch 1 knotch and make it a 1/2 knotch. True, the book never mentioned it.

Well honestly im not here to change anyone's views, everyone has the right to believe what they want. Im just curious though... you said your self "the book never mentioned it" and i cant think of a situation where Yg<greats( minus GJ possibly) in terms of inner power. I can think of a couple of situations where YG is shown to be roughly the same as the greats though..so why do believe Yg is any weaker?

And about Sad Palm, the answer to someone's question is that the technique is better. Only XL18Z can rival it for the millionth time. So despite weaker internal, the technique makes it all up.

I never said Sad palms was any weaker or stronger then 18DP. But I do disagree with your comment about the weaker internal. When YG dueled HYS it was first stated that HYS's palm techniques were inferior to YG's. YG thought that HYS had powerful innner strength but did not think much of his tehcniques.
Later when HYs could not counter with palm techniques he used the divine snapping finger to counter Sad Palms. It was stated that the Sad Palms were equal to the Divine Snap there was no winner or loser. So if YG and HYS techniques are equal and if "HYS,ZBT,1Deng are all>YG" in terms of inner power as you claim , then Yg would have lost out on the exchange, which of course never happened.

..srry for the run on sentences lack of grammer ect ect


here's my wanna be attempt to translate origins of Sad Palms i did a while back

Yang Gou himself and XLN separated at the passionless valley misery/heartbroken? Cliff. Not long after followed the divine condor who brought him to train in the centre of the Ocean waves. Many years later with the exception of gradually increasing his inner power he had nothing else to practice. In his heart all day he thought of XLN. Slowly getting thinner. He feels not reason to exist? /losing interest in life. One day while he was by the sea shore for some time, he was bored and began to throw random punches and kicks. At this time his inner power had reached a level where one strike contained an incredible amount of power. By the seashore using a light palm he was able to smash the shell of a large turtle into powder. Since that incident he went into a deep thought, creating a complete set of palm techniques. His fighting style unique from any other, the most powerful point was the technique’s inner power. All together(the palm tech) contained 17 stances. In his life he has received many pointers from famous masters. From Quan Zhen he learned orthodox inner power recitations. From XLN he learned Jade Maiden Heart manual. He’s seen the 9 Yin scriptures from the Ancient Tomb. Ou Yang Fong used Toad Stance to reverse arteries??(I think I may have misinterpreted this part?). Hong 7 Gong and HR gave him Dog Beating Stick. From WYS he received Divine snap and Jade Flute sword technique. With the exception of Solitary Yang Finger, Eastern Heretic, Western Poison, Northern Beggar and Central Divinities martial arts there’s nothing he did not know. Ancient Tomb’s martial arts diverged to a separate road to reach the level of the five greats. This time combining all into a single working skill he creates his own technique. Since he’s lost an arm he cannot win with variations instead he intentionally strays from martial theory. He names the set of palms “Melancholic Sad Palms”(this is from Athena’s from babel got “low-spirited being overwhelmed with emotion”).


as you can see inner power is a very important part of sad palms...without inner power equal to the greats his sad palms would not be as effective IMHO.

Duguxiaojing is quite correct..in the sense...and i thought i remember in the novel RoCH...JY once stated that Sad Palms was better then XL18Z...

....errrr i...never said Sad Palms was greater then 18DP..

[Ingman]

Erm.. isn't he called Qiao Feng? =X Xiaofeng sounds like little phoenix =X.

[Ken Cheng]

Erm.. isn't he called Qiao Feng? =X Xiaofeng sounds like little phoenix =X.

Kiu Fung was his adopted name, taken from his foster parents.

His birth name was Siu Fung. "Siu" is a Khitan last name.

[qiaofeng]

Qiao is the surname of his adoptive parents. Xiao is his original family name. i prefer qiaofeng thou. it suits him better. xiaofeng sounds weird. btw its qiao2 feng1 and xiao1 feng1. not xiao3 feng4

[Ken Cheng]

Qiao is the surname of his adoptive parents. Xiao is his original family name. i prefer qiaofeng thou. it suits him better. xiaofeng sounds weird. btw its qiao2 feng1 and xiao1 feng1. not xiao3 feng4

Yes. Maybe it's just what we're accustomed to, but "North Siu Fung" just doesn't have the same ring to it that "North Kiu Fung" does...even though "Siu" and "Kiu" more or less rhyme.

[Xiao_Long_nu]

Na it's Strength. I cut the direct text out its in the page back. And GJ is not inferior to GWM in inner power either. SB used to argue that GJ could not be below GWM after 16 years because in novel it is stated that although GWM had more years of cultivation Gj had come across more fortunate encounters...or something like that.



LoL....im not sure..never thought of wheather the turtle was alive. IIRC the text says it was the shell of a large sea turtle so im assuming it was dead...i hope so for YG's sake he already gets hated on as it is..





OIC..my bad...srry never read the post b4 yours...so when i read what you wrote i was like what kinda argument is that...



Well honestly im not here to change anyone's views, everyone has the right to believe what they want. Im just curious though... you said your self "the book never mentioned it" and i cant think of a situation where Yg<greats( minus GJ possibly) in terms of inner power. I can think of a couple of situations where YG is shown to be roughly the same as the greats though..so why do believe Yg is any weaker?




I never said Sad palms was any weaker or stronger then 18DP. But I do disagree with your comment about the weaker internal. When YG dueled HYS it was first stated that HYS's palm techniques were inferior to YG's. YG thought that HYS had powerful innner strength but did not think much of his tehcniques.
Later when HYs could not counter with palm techniques he used the divine snapping finger to counter Sad Palms. It was stated that the Sad Palms were equal to the Divine Snap there was no winner or loser. So if YG and HYS techniques are equal and if "HYS,ZBT,1Deng are all>YG" in terms of inner power as you claim , then Yg would have lost out on the exchange, which of course never happened.

..srry for the run on sentences lack of grammer ect ect


here's my wanna be attempt to translate origins of Sad Palms i did a while back

Yang Gou himself and XLN separated at the passionless valley misery/heartbroken? Cliff. Not long after followed the divine condor who brought him to train in the centre of the Ocean waves. Many years later with the exception of gradually increasing his inner power he had nothing else to practice. In his heart all day he thought of XLN. Slowly getting thinner. He feels not reason to exist? /losing interest in life. One day while he was by the sea shore for some time, he was bored and began to throw random punches and kicks. At this time his inner power had reached a level where one strike contained an incredible amount of power. By the seashore using a light palm he was able to smash the shell of a large turtle into powder. Since that incident he went into a deep thought, creating a complete set of palm techniques. His fighting style unique from any other, the most powerful point was the technique’s inner power. All together(the palm tech) contained 17 stances. In his life he has received many pointers from famous masters. From Quan Zhen he learned orthodox inner power recitations. From XLN he learned Jade Maiden Heart manual. He’s seen the 9 Yin scriptures from the Ancient Tomb. Ou Yang Fong used Toad Stance to reverse arteries??(I think I may have misinterpreted this part?). Hong 7 Gong and HR gave him Dog Beating Stick. From WYS he received Divine snap and Jade Flute sword technique. With the exception of Solitary Yang Finger, Eastern Heretic, Western Poison, Northern Beggar and Central Divinities martial arts there’s nothing he did not know. Ancient Tomb’s martial arts diverged to a separate road to reach the level of the five greats. This time combining all into a single working skill he creates his own technique. Since he’s lost an arm he cannot win with variations instead he intentionally strays from martial theory. He names the set of palms “Melancholic Sad Palms”(this is from Athena’s from babel got “low-spirited being overwhelmed with emotion”).


as you can see inner power is a very important part of sad palms...without inner power equal to the greats his sad palms would not be as effective IMHO.




....errrr i...never said Sad Palms was greater then 18DP..

oh i mean JY stated in the novel...i must go check it out...whether did he realli wrote that sad palms was beter than XL18Z...anyways did he realli use sad palms in the hwa San battle/challenge..?

[duguxiaojing]

i mean JY stated in the novel...i must go check it out...whether did he realli wrote that sad palms was beter than XL18Z...anyways did he realli use sad palms in the hwa San battle/challenge..?

? Do you mean in ROCH? There was no tournament, the group were only gathered at Mt.Hua to pay respects to H7G (Yg and XLN paid respects 2 OYF as well). The closest thing to a tournament that day were a bunch of weaklings who thought far too much of themselves.

[Panadol]

Although there is a comparison for GJ and YG's attacks, and GJ's HL18Z against XF's, it wasn't it is very difficult to imply that sad palms of YG is better than XF's.

XF' and GJ were compared that GJ's move conserves more energy and is more refined, so you would assume that XF's is less effective and therefore weaker than GJ...but might not be the case. Although GJ did have 9 Yin so most probably he is stronger, it never explicitly stated how strong XF really was. I'm not quite sure how strong 9 Yin is either since Huang Sheung was supposed to have a way to break the Duan Family Martial Arts i.e. 6MSJ... Yet XF was smart, GJ was not. XF was able to find ways of breaking martial arts, the two levels of XF and GJ are high enough that no matter who is stronger, if one was able to react faster (i.e. natural ability), he would kill the other. With that said, XF would be the victor, and therefore, can probably also defeat YG despite YG's palm strength being equal or even stronger.

[Xiao_Long_nu]

Although there is a comparison for GJ and YG's attacks, and GJ's HL18Z against XF's, it wasn't it is very difficult to imply that sad palms of YG is better than XF's.

XF' and GJ were compared that GJ's move conserves more energy and is more refined, so you would assume that XF's is less effective and therefore weaker than GJ...but might not be the case. Although GJ did have 9 Yin so most probably he is stronger, it never explicitly stated how strong XF really was. I'm not quite sure how strong 9 Yin is either since Huang Sheung was supposed to have a way to break the Duan Family Martial Arts i.e. 6MSJ... Yet XF was smart, GJ was not. XF was able to find ways of breaking martial arts, the two levels of XF and GJ are high enough that no matter who is stronger, if one was able to react faster (i.e. natural ability), he would kill the other. With that said, XF would be the victor, and therefore, can probably also defeat YG despite YG's palm strength being equal or even stronger.

But JY often stated YG is veri smart in defeating other stronger opponents even he is inferior due too is cleverness..YG only loses intelletual comparing with HR..

[Panadol]

I never thought of YG to be as strong as GJ though. YG is very smart, that much i know but to beat XF...that is what I am not sure about. I remember reading couple years ago Laviathan put rankings of JY characters, and GJ was higher than XF and YG. Forgot if XF was ranked higher than YG or equal.

Usually without too much analysis, the strongest chars are in Tian Long Ba Bu no?

So I just automatically assume that XF was the strongest because he was so dominant throughout the whole book...but the same can be said for MRF and we know what happen with him...

Clearly XZ and DY are stronger than YG, GJ, ZWJ at the end of the book, but was XF?

[Xiao_Long_nu]

I never thought of YG to be as strong as GJ though. YG is very smart, that much i know but to beat XF...that is what I am not sure about. I remember reading couple years ago Laviathan put rankings of JY characters, and GJ was higher than XF and YG. Forgot if XF was ranked higher than YG or equal.

Usually without too much analysis, the strongest chars are in Tian Long Ba Bu no?

So I just automatically assume that XF was the strongest because he was so dominant throughout the whole book...but the same can be said for MRF and we know what happen with him...

Clearly XZ and DY are stronger than YG, GJ, ZWJ at the end of the book, but was XF?

Laviathan's rankings are just opinions..XF is weaker than DY and XZ due to what XF siad to himself...that DY could use 6mai to defeat him easily..XZ was the only one who can defeat YG,GJ and ZWJ because of his more than 150 years of gong li and nei gond lol...passed down by all the super powers in tian long ba pu...DY was weaker than XZ but is also probably very strong compared wif YG, GJ and ZWJ..

[Panadol]

well i kinda thought that he was onto something. Perhaps GJ is stronger than XF but I think due to fighting style and the deterioration factor, that XF can kick the crap out of GJ. Not to mention in the 3rd edition, there was HL28Z, so if XF can refine it down to 18, he must have had a mastery of the HL18Z beyond that of GJ who just had great inner energy due to 9 yin.

It would be good to have a ranking even though opinionated again so that it will lead for more debate.

However, one pattern that I have seen in forum, not to steer away from topic is that DFBB is way overrated by many in this forum.

No way can DFBB beat XF, GJ, ZWJ, YG, etc. He would be at best strong like the greats in LOCH.

[heats]

XF would definietly be better than GJ in XL18Z
When it comes to martial arts, GJ has difficulty learning, while XF seems to be talented as martial arts anything just comes natural to him. Therefore XF shld be much better than GJ