Martial arts comparison between DGSD era and LOCH/ROCH era

[PJ]

first, I DO believe the Greats are under Xiao Feng (no one in his/her right mind would believe Greats > Xiao Feng).

second, I DO believe Guo Jing > Greats

next, I DO believe Xiao Feng has more power than Guo Jing. But based on their fighting style, Guo Jing has an advantage which I will not overlook.

Guo Jing's style preserves energy, which allows him to perform better in the LONG term. Xiao Feng's long distance attack exhausts energy, which allows him to perform better in the SHORT term.

Now people claim GJ CANNOT perform long distance attacks a la Xiao Feng. I'm not saying GJ can, but it doesn't fit his model, so it doesn't make sense for him to do it EVEN IF HE CAN.

As seen in XF's fight with You Tanzhi+MRF, exhausting raw energy has a major disadvantage because he will run out of power sooner than GJ.

Let me make a silly analogy here. A fight is like a race. If the distance is 100 meters, then the fastest runner will win. However, if the distance is a long 10000 meters, then the one who preserves energy best will win. The fastest runner who exhausts energy at the start will not prevail (which is, if I am not wrong, a big no-no in running).

You could argue that GJ might not last long enough to see the effect come in. But he took on Golden Wheel Monk (who was already stronger than GJ) plus Nimoxing and Xiaoxiangzi (who together are in my opinion more difficult to handle than YTZ+MRF - now, do NOT misunderstand me again. I am not saying GWM is stronger than MRF or YTZ. I am saying that, Golden Wheel Monk ALONE is stronger than GJ, whereas MRF alone would be squashed by XF, and YTZ alone would be squashed by XF, but GWM is STRONGER than GJ, plus he had the help of two great men, so GJ's opponents are more difficult for HIM [GJ] to handle than XF's opponents were for XF to handle), and GJ was handling the situation better than XF with YTZ. Is XF > Golden Wheel Monk, Xiaoxiangzi, AND Nimoxing? Debatable.

I hope I have made my points clear! To recap:

-I DO believe Greats < Xiao Feng
-I DO believe Greats < Guo Jing
-I DO believe Guo Jing < Xiao Feng in power, but XF < GJ in fighting method, so GJ =~ Xiao Feng when all factors are considered

[superboy]

Why would you say GLFW is stronger than GJ? The novel said that it will take 1000 stance if they were to compete, I think GJ would be the victor. QF is captable then just over powering his enemy. I'm not sure, but why did QF used so many yang style to fight anyway in Shaolin? May he be only trying to keep the distance so he don't have to match the ice poison of YTZ? And the method that a person use might not even the factor. You said that GLFW is stronger than GJ (I doubt it though), and the novel still say it will take 1000 stance for them to finish the fight. But QF seems to be a lot more powerful than GLFW to me.

[CC]

Originally posted by PJ

As seen in XF's fight with You Tanzhi+MRF, exhausting raw energy has a major disadvantage because he will run out of power sooner than GJ.

OK I am back! But only because I have to defend Xiao Feng's style again.

I don't think XF's style is to expend energy at 100% rate all the way. If its not a sensible way to fight, he wouldn't do it cuz he isnt a dumb fighter. Its just that when fighting YTZ+MRF+DCQ (why you guys keep leaving out DCQ?) he had to use 100% power because he was outnumbered by 3 deadly fighters and that was the only way to guarantee his defence.

But yes, I do think GJ had some refinements due to his 9 Yin and left/right techniques etc etc which Xiao Feng does not have. But I believe XF's natural talent is brilliant enough to compensate in other ways.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by superboy
Why would you say GLFW is stronger than GJ? The novel said that it will take 1000 stance if they were to compete, I think GJ would be the victor. QF is captable then just over powering his enemy. I'm not sure, but why did QF used so many yang style to fight anyway in Shaolin? May he be only trying to keep the distance so he don't have to match the ice poison of YTZ? And the method that a person use might not even the factor. You said that GLFW is stronger than GJ (I doubt it though), and the novel still say it will take 1000 stance for them to finish the fight. But QF seems to be a lot more powerful than GLFW to me.

In ROCH, it was established that Gwok Jing had a slight edge in techniques while the Golden Wheel Monk had a slight edge in inner power. I agree, however, that in a fair fight, Gwok Jing would ultimately prevail over the Golden Wheel Monk.

[PJ]

why you guys keep leaving out DCQ?

Because DCQ wasn't in the fight that gave Xiao Feng trouble. Why should I include him? He was busy fighting Xuzhu.

Ken: the novel said ¹ù¾¸ËäÈ»ÂŵÃÆæÓö£¬µ«·¨Íõ±ÈËû´óÁ˶þÊ®ËêÄê¼Í£¬Ò²¼´¶à Á˶þÊ®ÄêµÄ¹¦Á¦

Although GJ encountered special martial arts, FaWang was twenty years older, and had twenty years of more internal energy.

Clearly GWM was superior to GJ in terms of power. Since you guys emphasize on internal energy so much, I thought it'd be fair to point out GWM's superiority in that department and yet GJ was able to fend off him and 2 more warriors.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by PJ

Although GJ encountered special martial arts, FaWang was twenty years older, and had twenty years of more internal energy

This statement, while accurate, is potentially misleading. "Years", after all, is not a unit of measure for magnitude of inner power, although the two elements can be and often are related. *All* of the original Greats had 20+ more "years" of inner power than Gwok Jing did, but that didn't mean much because 9 Yum Jen Ging had allowed Gwok Jing to compensate for the Greats' initial lead over him.

If we were to take the "twenty years" remark regarding the Golden Wheel Monk's internal energy at face value, then Gwok Jing would not have been able to match him palm for palm at Luk Family Manor ... not even close.

[PJ]

True but Still, in this case JY worded the sentence to show GWM's superior internal energy and, potentially, experience as well.

[Laviathan]

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I've checked the novel and it stated that Golden Wheel Monk's original (physical) strength is much higher than Guo Jing's. His internal power is also very profound, but his palm methods and martial skills are quite far below Guo Jing's.

[superboy]

Clearly GWM was superior to GJ in terms of power. Since you guys emphasize on internal energy so much, I thought it'd be fair to point out GWM's superiority in that department and yet GJ was able to fend off him and 2 more warriors.

Even if GLFW's internal energy is a little stronger than GJ's, I still think that he is far below QF. You can't just argue that his fighting method is more conservative and say that it will equal out with QF's power. I personally think that QF could easily beat the 3 mongolian warriors using just a few palms with the power and talent he has. I'm agree that you shouldn't say QF is all yang just because of that scene. It was said that the 3 mongolian warriors actually held GLFW down because he couldn't use all out, although the combine power will take over GJ. YTZ and MRF is like a perfect combination into one fighter with great techniques, power, and poison, not to mention that he need to fend off 4 hands and legs. No one is holding each other down so it's a perfectly fair 2 on one. The conserative method only work on opponents that has a relatively close or below level martial arts. It was said that QF has been to hundreds on battles in his life and never lost a match. Even against master that are stronger than him that time he still win. Did you think that he exhuasted himself on those battle? He had beaten people with more internal energy(which equal to stamina) and experience then him in his younger years. I don't see how GJ can do that, and QF has so much more strength too. Which his hugh physique, his internal power, which I think is stronger than GJ's seeing the things he could do, and his talent, I don't see how they can be equal.

[duguxiaojing]

HOLY GEEZ just read throught this whole thread do sum of u experts who have read all the novel mind arguing for another 30 or more pages?? damn this is good stuff the best part of this thread is all the anger spewing around plz continue i wanna c how this ends

[CC]

30 pages and no one has budged from their original opinions. So its not going to end.

[superboy]

Corrections of my last post up there: I no longer believe that the GJ at the end of ROCH is that much below XF. But still have doubt if he can blast out palm blasts as powerful as XF.

[PJ]

[Athena]

tap, tap....didn't want to see this thread gone.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by CC
30 pages and no one has budged from their original opinions. So its not going to end.

Similar to that GJ vs. YG thread, eh? Perhaps the mods can make this one sticky.

[duguxiaojing]

Just re- read the middle part about how far palm energy can travle.......man this was one heck of a debate KC can u sticky this so its never deleted? It was so crazy that all these experts participated. U know i once heard someone say that most experts believe that DGSD elites are superior which is not exactly true on this thread. Its kinda sad all the experts retired .we will never see Athena,Lav,Kenny,PJ,moin,CC debating on the same thread ever again .

[Dirt]

I third making this thread a sticky.

[Moinllieon]

As per request, it is now sticky.

[TaiHan]

this is good, I would never have to waste 10 minutes of my life looking for thread anymore.

[duguxiaojing]

As per request, it is now sticky

Thanx