Martial arts comparison between DGSD era and LOCH/ROCH era

[- L1n -]

Jiu Yin Zhen Jing is FAR more powerful than any skill in ROCH and ROCH. Yi Deng origibally needed 5 years to recover from treating Huang Rong but after reading the last portion of Jiu Yin shown to him by Guo Jing, he says that he could recover all his internal strength in just 3 months. !!!

That means that Jiu Yin can shorten the time for recovery from 60 months to 3 months !! A 20 time improvement. Yi Deng skills is NOT inferior to any of the greats even before he saw Jiu Yin Zhen Jing. But it is obvious that Jiu Yin is a FAR MORE EFFICIENT skill for improving internal strength than any other skill.

Wang Chong Yang skill is superior to all the great BUT inferior to Jiu Yin. Hence I believe that Guo Jing is not only the most powerful person at the end of ROCH but he is significantly more powerful. In a prolonged fight, golden wheel and yang guo will surely exhaust their internal strength before Guo Jing. There is TWO reason for this. Firstly, Guo Jing internal strength is higher and purer. Secondly, Guo Jing Dragon Palm is veing modified by the theory in Jiu Yin and hence become more Yin in nature. Guo Jing ability to wield the very Yin Kong Ming Palm and the more Yang modified Dragon Palm enable him to fight Yang Guo or Golden Wheel with superior technique that SAVE alot of energy---just like Tai Chi. When Golden Wheel or Yang Guo become exhausted by using their very Yang and energy wasting skills, Guo Jing can easily KILL them with his more Yang Skill and superior internal energy, he can use his Dragon Palm or Demon Subdueing Palm or Jiu Yin Claw or Heart Bursting Palm. Meaning Guo Jing will use Yin skills like KOng Ming and the more Yin style of Dragon palm to exhaust his enemy before he kill them with very YAng skill like the most powerful Yang Palm found in Dragon Palm and Demon Subdueing Palm or Jiu Yin White Bone Claw

do u think if 9 yin was in dgsd it will still be so highly regarded, do u think it has surpassed the great mauals such as yi jing jin, 6 mai sen jian and xiao yao arts. And just becos Gj had 9 yin does that make him automatic winner, i don't think so, i doubt gj can beat xf and internal energy wise gj's would not even rank top 7 in dgsd.

[TaiHan]

IMO, 9 Yin is the most deep and vast style in the entire Jin Yong's Universe. There might be other techniques that is comparable to 9 Yin, but they specialize too much and aren't as vast. The runner-up would be DG9J.

also it doesn't really matter if GJ doesn't have internal energy comparable to the DGSD's elite. When HS created 9 Yin, he wanted to create a technique that he can single handedly defeat all his opponents at once. When he was defeated, he overwhelm by numbers and power, so he created a technique where internal energy is less sufficient in the battle. If you notice, GJ was able to hold off the GWM plus two other people which combined together had more power then GJ.

[- L1n -]

IMO, 9 Yin is the most deep and vast style in the entire Jin Yong's Universe. There might be other techniques that is comparable to 9 Yin, but they specialize too much and aren't as vast. The runner-up would be DG9J.

also it doesn't really matter if GJ doesn't have internal energy comparable to the DGSD's elite. When HS created 9 Yin, he wanted to create a technique that he can single handedly defeat all his opponents at once. When he was defeated, he overwhelm by numbers and power, so he created a technique where internal energy is less sufficient in the battle. If you notice, GJ was able to hold off the GWM plus two other people which combined together had more power then GJ.

9 yin is the most vast in terms od technique but that does not makle it better than the likes of 6 mai and xiao yao arts in the hand of others, also huang shan created 9 yin to match the kung fu he has encountered in his life, but in any part of the trilogy do we see either zbt, gj, yg, xln and hr or even maybe zzr and yellow lady perform anything that could over whelm 6 mai sen jian, lin bo wei bu and the rest of the dgsd arts that was not present in the trilogy such as yi jing jin, bei ming etc etc.

also gj held off gwm and 2 others in a technique wise battle, everyone knows gwm's technique is not comparable to gj's, and if u ask me internal enrgy does matter, especially when the likes of dy and xz is more than enough in terms of inner enrgy to sweep gj anyday, i'm not saying gj is shit or anything i just think the greats of dgsd is just that much better than gj and co. As u have notice it dosen't matter if people in jin yong often have kung fu that is specialized in certain area's like u mentioned, but i don't think that should be a issue considering no one has just 1 specific skill, all the greats have a mix so i don't think 9 yin is that much of a advantage if u have access to other kungfu's, ofcos if we r just talking manuals then ofcos 9 yin would probably be preferred but we r comparing people who have access to other manuals. Also what if gj did hold off gwm and 2 others, do u think gwm and 2 others in terms of inner energy can compare to dy, xz, xiao yao elders, sweeps?????

[Wang Chong Yang]

Xiao Feng skills is not much different from Hong Qi Gong. Both learnt the original unmodified style dragon Palm.

I am sure Guo Jing is far more powerful than Xiao Feng. As Jiu Ying is far more advance as a skill compare to Dragon Palm, if you read the JY text carefully. Of course a man that learnt Jiu Yin for one year may not beat a man that practise Dragon Palm for 30 years. But if TWO man of the same intelligence, physical built and same level of diligence are to learnt Jiu Yin and dragon palm RESPECTIVELY, the one that learn Jiu Yin will end up being far more powerful as Jiu Yin is far more efficient and powerful than the Dragon Palm in terms of ability to increase internal strength

BUT I have to EMPHASIZE that it is IMPOSSIBLE to compare Jiu Yin with the skills of Xiao Yao Pai or Nameless Monk. I can only say that the nameless monk is far more powerful than Xiao Feng but I cannot say he is better than Wu Ya Zi if Wu Ya Zi is not crippled by the fall. The best of Xiao Yao Pai skills is definitely more powerful than the general Shaolin skills as well as Dragon Palm. But it is HARD to compare Xiao Yao skill with Yi JIng JIng and the Nameless monk.

There is a GOOD possibility that the nameless monk may be more powerful than Jiu Yin. But that nameless monk may in fact be a secret member of Xiao Yao sect before he became a monk. Because he is familiar with Xiao Wu Xiang Skills which is a secretive skills known only to the INSIDER.

[zhouyu]

so you are SURE Guo Jing can beat Xiao Feng? Wow, you must be Jin Yong then, or else how can you be sure.

Yes, Guo Jing learned 9 Yin to go with his dragon palms,
but that doesn't mean that is better than Xiao Feng's dragon palms,
in case you didn't notice, there was a point in the novel where
Xiao Feng beat many highly skilled fighters with Long fist, which by the way
is a very simple and weak technique. What makes you think he can't do that
to Guo Jing, and beat his more"refined" dragon palms with his supposely "weaker"
dragon palm?

quick question, when Guo Jing fought the GWM and the other two in the mongol camp, didn't it state in the novel that the three of the mongol fighters were also fighting each other at the same time (therfore, allowing Guo Jing to last as long as he did) for the title of number one fighter in Mongol.

[TaiHan]

To -L1n-
I didn't really mean to say that 9 Yin is better than the technique in DGSD, but just more vast. But I don't think that the Xiao Yao technique are actually better than 9 Yin.

IMO, GJ could handle XF. but for DY, XZ, their inner power is way to high IMO, for GJ to handle. Mostly because I'm uncertain about DY's and XZ's inner power level. Like I never see a limit to it, or never see them max out.

[TaiHan]

quick question, when Guo Jing fought the GWM and the other two in the mongol camp, didn't it state in the novel that the three of the mongol fighters were also fighting each other at the same time (therfore, allowing Guo Jing to last as long as he did) for the title of number one fighter in Mongol.

I remember they were fighting each other after Yang Guo intervene. While at the beginning they wasn't.

[duguxiaojing]

quick question, when Guo Jing fought the GWM and the other two in the mongol camp, didn't it state in the novel that the three of the mongol fighters were also fighting each other at the same time (therfore, allowing Guo Jing to last as long as he did) for the title of number one fighter in Mongol.

Gj would have been defeated in the long run. He was doing pretty darn good going against all those elites but GWM was only slightly below if not equal to GJ so yeah it was stated that their competition for the title was a reason GJ could hold them off.

[Ken Cheng]

I maintain the position that no L/ROCH-era Great was much ahead of the other Greats. The 9 Yum Jen Ging notwithstanding, there seemed to be a ceiling to the skill and power levels of the L/ROCH Greats that none of them could surpass. Moreover, in Gwok Jing's ROCH fights against other Greats-level fighters (West Poison Au Yeung Fung and the Golden Wheel Monk), the results were inconclusive rather than clear-cut victories.

A Kiu Fung vs. Gwok Jing fight would go down as one of the great fights of all time, but in the end, I believe that Kiu Fung would pull out the victory. Both warriors are among the fiercest, most determined, most powerful, and most skilled warriors in all of wuxia fiction, but Kiu Fung just had this knack for winning that nobody else (not even Gwok Jing) had.

[Yang Ming]

First of all,I wanna say that I prefer dicussing about the meaning of Jin Yong' novels than gong fu debates but I can't stand people making misleading inferences.

Jiu Yin Zhen Jing is FAR more powerful than any skill in ROCH and ROCH. Yi Deng origibally needed 5 years to recover from treating Huang Rong but after reading the last portion of Jiu Yin shown to him by Guo Jing, he says that he could recover all his internal strength in just 3 months. !!!

That means that Jiu Yin can shorten the time for recovery from 60 months to 3 months !! A 20 time improvement. Yi Deng skills is NOT inferior to any of the greats even before he saw Jiu Yin Zhen Jing. But it is obvious that Jiu Yin is a FAR MORE EFFICIENT skill for improving internal strength than any other skill.

This part of Jiu Yin Zhen Jing has a amazing healing ability, but that healing method is used when mediating rather than during the fight. To have more details, please refer to the section when H7G was beated by OYF on the island.

Wang Chong Yang skill is superior to all the great BUT inferior to Jiu Yin. Hence I believe that Guo Jing is not only the most powerful person at the end of ROCH but he is significantly more powerful. In a prolonged fight, golden wheel and yang guo will surely exhaust their internal strength before Guo Jing. There is TWO reason for this. Firstly, Guo Jing internal strength is higher and purer.

On which standards that you said Gou Jing's internal strength is higher and purer?

And you theory of prolonged fight is not very accurate, the fight does not necessarily get long. If Gou Jing doesn't use all his power, how could he survive the first zhang ?

Secondly, Guo Jing Dragon Palm is veing modified by the theory in Jiu Yin and hence become more Yin in nature. Guo Jing ability to wield the very Yin Kong Ming Palm and the more Yang modified Dragon Palm enable him to fight Yang Guo or Golden Wheel with superior technique that SAVE alot of energy---just like Tai Chi. When Golden Wheel or Yang Guo become exhausted by using their very Yang and energy wasting skills, Guo Jing can easily KILL them with his more Yang Skill and superior internal energy, he can use his Dragon Palm or Demon Subdueing Palm or Jiu Yin Claw or Heart Bursting Palm. Meaning Guo Jing will use Yin skills like KOng Ming and the more Yin style of Dragon palm to exhaust his enemy before he kill them with very YAng skill like the most powerful Yang Palm found in Dragon Palm and Demon Subdueing Palm or Jiu Yin White Bone Claw

About the energy, it would be good if someone posts the part in which Yang Guo praticed zhang against the occean and when he relized the meaning of DG had written on his swords' tomb. You'll how ulitimate inner power can be at DG's level. I wish that I got the English texts.

" superior technique that SAVE alot of energy---just like Tai Chi"
Did Zhang San Feng say that Tai Chi saves a lot of energy, especially in inner power fight? When he was sneakly attacked by a monk of Zhao Ming, he was scared that even if he can't beat 2 guys sword fight and hand fight, he will never have a chance to win in inner power fight.
The only tech which can be used effectively without internal strength is DG9J, the tech helping a nonenergy fighter like LHC defeat a lot fighter with internal strength.

Fun facts: Guo Jing knows Heart Bursting Palm, Jiu Yin White Bone Claw ? When did he marry Mei Chao Feng?

[ChronoReverse]

He learned all of 9 yin. Therefore he knows those two skills which are part of 9 yin.

[S Beaver]

Jiu Yin Zhen Jing is FAR more powerful than any skill in ROCH and ROCH. Yi Deng origibally needed 5 years to recover from treating Huang Rong but after reading the last portion of Jiu Yin shown to him by Guo Jing, he says that he could recover all his internal strength in just 3 months. !!!

That means that Jiu Yin can shorten the time for recovery from 60 months to 3 months !! A 20 time improvement. Yi Deng skills is NOT inferior to any of the greats even before he saw Jiu Yin Zhen Jing. But it is obvious that Jiu Yin is a FAR MORE EFFICIENT skill for improving internal strength than any other skill.

um, according to that logic, 9 yang has even more amazing healing abilities than 9 yin...does it make it better than 9 yin??

[TaiHan]

um, according to that logic, 9 yang has even more amazing healing abilities than 9 yin...does it make it better than 9 yin??

well, if you read what Wang Chong Yang said in this site http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...?t=9133&page=2
that would be a no.

[ToOn99]

to Yang Ming :
Just read briefly ur comment on WCY's opinion. GJ indeed learned 9Yin Divine white bone claw. He learned that from ZBT in the cave. And the version of 9Yin Divine White bone claw he learned was clearly the true version even much better than the one MCF had.

[TaiHan]

This part of Jiu Yin Zhen Jing has a amazing healing ability, but that healing method is used when mediating rather than during the fight. To have more details, please refer to the section when H7G was beated by OYF on the island.

What do you mean by reading that section?

Do you mean that 9 Yin wasn't capable of healing H7G's injuries?
If that is the case, you need to go on and read further on how H7G recovered.

About the energy, it would be good if someone posts the part in which Yang Guo praticed zhang against the occean and when he relized the meaning of DG had written on his swords' tomb. You'll how ulitimate inner power can be at DG's level. I wish that I got the English texts.

The ultimate inner power IMO is YJJ or Bei Ming.

I don't think DG written anything on the tomb that talked about inner power.

to Yang Ming :
Just read briefly ur comment on WCY's opinion. GJ indeed learned 9Yin Divine white bone claw. He learned that from ZBT in the cave. And the version of 9Yin Divine White bone claw he learned was clearly the true version even much better than the one MCF had.

the Divine stuff is only something that ZBT made up.
When GJ was practicing the claw techinque, he asked why this technique resemble MCY's claw technique.
ZBT said how could MCY's junky technique compare with my Divine Claw technique.
To me it was just a joke, there is no such thing as the divine.

As for the method being taught to GJ, he just didn't use skull to practice it.

[rabadi]

GJ indeed learned 9Yin Divine white bone claw.

Yup, he did. He just felt reluctant to use it.

[duguxiaojing]

don't think DG written anything on the tomb that talked about inner power.

I *think* Yang Ming is refering to the level which Yg had achieved. After YG reached a high enough level with his inner power based sword art he believed that he was able to understand the lonliness which Dugu felt. With such a powerful sword art(again inner power based) how could he have a match? Yang Ming is not refering to any inner power being mentioned but the feeling of invincibility after attaining(or some believe claiming to attain) such a high level of inner power. Again i cant read his mind and i could be wrong

Has Gj ever used 9yin techniques in a battle before? I know he trains the inner power and he has much "greater knowledge" (so does HR though) then YG and XLN but has he ever used the techniques in actual combat?

[PJ]

Yes, Guo Jing learned 9 Yin to go with his dragon palms,
but that doesn't mean that is better than Xiao Feng's dragon palms,
in case you didn't notice, there was a point in the novel where
Xiao Feng beat many highly skilled fighters with Long fist, which by the way
is a very simple and weak technique...

echoes my thoughts.

[SolidSnake]

There we go again: TLBB vs Condor trilogy

To me,
inner power wise, GJ can handle XF.
technique wise, YG (mind you, this guy can create a superb technique on his own) can probably handle XF.
But can GJ or YG really win against XF?
We will never know. There's no proof to it, much like there's no proof against it.

Excluding sweeper monk, I don't know where some people get the idea that TLBB's main characters to be a notch above the Greats of Condor trilogy. I've read TLBB and ROCH more than once but never got the slightest impression that one book contain supersaiyans while the other... humble peasants.

[PJ]

There we go again: TLBB vs Condor trilogy

To me,
inner power wise, GJ can handle XF.
technique wise, YG (mind you, this guy can create a superb technique on his own) can probably handle XF.
But can GJ or YG really win against XF?
We will never know. There's no proof to it, much like there's no proof against it.

Excluding sweeper monk, I don't know where some people get the idea that TLBB's main characters to be a notch above the Greats of Condor trilogy. I've read TLBB and ROCH more than once but never got the slightest impression that one book contain supersaiyans while the other... humble peasants.

have you read the BIG sticky? There's some really good (and bad, but mainly look for the good ones) points for both sides of the argument.

Don't forget, Technique wise, Murong Fu can handle Xiao Feng. But you know what will happen if the 2 ever clash.