Martial arts comparison between DGSD era and LOCH/ROCH era

[- L1n -]

To -L1n-
I didn't really mean to say that 9 Yin is better than the technique in DGSD, but just more vast. But I don't think that the Xiao Yao technique are actually better than 9 Yin.

IMO, GJ could handle XF. but for DY, XZ, their inner power is way to high IMO, for GJ to handle. Mostly because I'm uncertain about DY's and XZ's inner power level. Like I never see a limit to it, or never see them max out.

ok at minimu dy is at least 2 times xf in inner energy i don't think anyone can argue with that, reason why, jiu mo zhi is comparable to xf on inner enrgy if not sligghtlt lees, dy sucked him dry and previous to that dy already surpassed xf in inner enrgy from getting it from others. Xz is is stronger than dy in inner enrgy.

[- L1n -]

There we go again: TLBB vs Condor trilogy

To me,
inner power wise, GJ can handle XF.
technique wise, YG (mind you, this guy can create a superb technique on his own) can probably handle XF.
But can GJ or YG really win against XF?
We will never know. There's no proof to it, much like there's no proof against it.

Excluding sweeper monk, I don't know where some people get the idea that TLBB's main characters to be a notch above the Greats of Condor trilogy. I've read TLBB and ROCH more than once but never got the slightest impression that one book contain supersaiyans while the other... humble peasants.

Ok even excluding sweeper, theres still no one in condor trilogy that can match the likes of dy, xz, xiao yao elders. Simply gj is probablyu slightly less chi then xf, but dy is already 2 times xf, Xz is all elders, and xiao tao elders should be close to dy but not more in iner chi, now how isn't like super siayan compared to yg and the greats.

[CC]

There is a GOOD possibility that the nameless monk may be more powerful than Jiu Yin. .

?!??!?!?!? ???

[TaiHan]

ok at minimu dy is at least 2 times xf in inner energy i don't think anyone can argue with that, reason why, jiu mo zhi is comparable to xf on inner enrgy if not sligghtlt lees, dy sucked him dry and previous to that dy already surpassed xf in inner enrgy from getting it from others. Xz is is stronger than dy in inner enrgy.

my doubt is how much inner power DY have before JMZ. It should be reasonable that DY should have about as much as JMZ to suck him dry. but throughout the entire novel before leading up to sucking JMZ, I don't think DY sucked enough people or energy to have the same power as JMZ. So there is a slight chance that he somehow drain JMZ with a lower inner power than JMZ. At shaolin, I got the opinion that his inner power is only abit better than MRF. and MRF and JMZ is a big leap, IMO. But I have no prove to back that up.

[- L1n -]

my doubt is how much inner power DY have before JMZ. It should be reasonable that DY should have about as much as JMZ to suck him dry. but throughout the entire novel before leading up to sucking JMZ, I don't think DY sucked enough people or energy to have the same power as JMZ. So there is a slight chance that he somehow drain JMZ with a lower inner power than JMZ. At shaolin, I got the opinion that his inner power is only abit better than MRF. and MRF and JMZ is a big leap, IMO. But I have no prove to back that up.

we can assume dy is higher in inner enrgy then the top martial artist of dali other than dy, kunlun monk of celestrial temple, his inner enrgy is comparable to Jmz. Also u do realise u did suck alot, and basing the fact that 6 mai sen jian requires a practioner to have a really really high inner strength i would say definitely higher then jmz before he sucked him.

[Xiao Feng]

Emmm, why don't you try and list down the guys DY sucked from. And then do a rough estimation. XF is like 30 over, JMZ I reckon about the same, however exceptional both are they've only got like 30 years of internal energy. DY, lets just say he sucked up 10 guys and he sucked from each guy 5 years worth of energy. That would equate to about 50 years worth of maybe lesser grade energy compared to XF or JMZ. So maybe 50 years of moderate fighters energy is equivalent to 30 years of XF/JMZ class fighters energy. That means before DY sucked up JMZ he at least had as much energy as JMZ. But of course all this is assumptions

[Ken Cheng]

I've merged this into the original DGSD vs. CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY thread. It's really the same discussion.

[SolidSnake]

have you read the BIG sticky? There's some really good (and bad, but mainly look for the good ones) points for both sides of the argument.

Don't forget, Technique wise, Murong Fu can handle Xiao Feng. But you know what will happen if the 2 ever clash.

Yes, I have read the sticky one. Have you notice that I have post there as well? Arguments can be both good and bad, but they stays there. They will never become facts. Sweeper monk's tap is fact, XF has XL18Z is fact, GJ has 9YZJ is fact, Sweeper monk > XF is fact. But as I stated before, YG><XF we will never know. Not enough evidents to support the arguments to make it acceptable for all parties, IMHO. Unless JY changed or edit or add something, again, in the future.

Ok even excluding sweeper, theres still no one in condor trilogy that can match the likes of dy, xz, xiao yao elders. Simply gj is probablyu slightly less chi then xf, but dy is already 2 times xf, Xz is all elders, and xiao tao elders should be close to dy but not more in iner chi, now how isn't like super siayan compared to yg and the greats.

No offense, but where is it in the novels (both of them) that stated that GJ's qi is slightly less than XF's? It's your personal judgement isn't it? Same as my personal judgement, it stays personal.

[- L1n -]

Yes, I have read the sticky one. Have you notice that I have post there as well? Arguments can be both good and bad, but they stays there. They will never become facts. Sweeper monk's tap is fact, XF has XL18Z is fact, GJ has 9YZJ is fact, Sweeper monk > XF is fact. But as I stated before, YG><XF we will never know. Not enough evidents to support the arguments to make it acceptable for all parties, IMHO. Unless JY changed or edit or add something, again, in the future.


No offense, but where is it in the novels (both of them) that stated that GJ's qi is slightly less than XF's? It's your personal judgement isn't it? Same as my personal judgement, it stays personal.

fine even if gj's inner enrgy is better than xf's but that still dosen't change my argument how theres still 6 others who's stronger, does it???

[Han Solo]

The postulation of Wong Chong Yang is simply based on the healing powers of 9 Yin. We had similar discussions in the past where the quick healing powers of 9 Yin is said to be due to the unique injuries of YD and H7G. If i remember, Lav and Candide also participated in that discussion. Can anyone find it, rabadi?, please.

[SolidSnake]

fine even if gj's inner enrgy is better than xf's but that still dosen't change my argument how theres still 6 others who's stronger, does it???

Look, I'm not challenging your arguments here, since I don't want to go into lengthy debate.
The way I see it, anyone (including me) can say this and that but none can have solid fact to back it up.

Some people might say TLBB is the time when all the supersaiyans existed, or that it is the peak of bla bla bla... . Some other might also say the same thing about ROCH. BUT, the main point remains that they're personal opinions, not facts from the books.

Then again... this is probably the fun of discussing such things in public forums. Even the funniest opinion counts! And if it have the votes from majority, it became fact

[TaiHan]

fine even if gj's inner enrgy is better than xf's but that still dosen't change my argument how theres still 6 others who's stronger, does it???

actually Xiao Yao Elder might not even be more powerful than XF. They are always fighting each other, so we don't know how much inner power they have.

[Wang Chong Yang]

Healing power is a function of the purity and power of a person's internal strength. The injury of Yi deng recover in 3 months instead of 5 years ---thats 20 times different. dun forget the internal strength of Yi deng is at least as good (if not higher ) than Hong Qi Gong, Eastern heretic and western venom (before he learnt the fake 9yin).

[Athena]

Well, in the past I only compared the Trilogy greats to Murong Bo, Xiao Yuanshan, Jiu Mozhi and Xiao Feng (This lot are "just" martial arts masters). Because Duan Yu, Xuzhu, the old nameless monk, Tonglao, Wuya Zi and Li Qiushui are too "freakish." Those are not martial arts masters but are either martial arts "freaks" (Duan Yu and Xuzhu) or martial arts "sages" (old nameless monk, Tonglao, Wuya Zi and Li Qiushui).
And since there are no martial arts sages, freaks in Trilogy....I only compared the martial arts masters of both canons.

[superboy]

Emmm, why don't you try and list down the guys DY sucked from. And then do a rough estimation. XF is like 30 over, JMZ I reckon about the same, however exceptional both are they've only got like 30 years of internal energy. DY, lets just say he sucked up 10 guys and he sucked from each guy 5 years worth of energy. That would equate to about 50 years worth of maybe lesser grade energy compared to XF or JMZ. So maybe 50 years of moderate fighters energy is equivalent to 30 years of XF/JMZ class fighters energy. That means before DY sucked up JMZ he at least had as much energy as JMZ. But of course all this is assumptions

I think JMZ is at least 40. DY's energy was greater than XF when they had a little race. So it isn't unreasonable to say that JMZ could have been sucked because he had at least as much or more energy than him.

[PJ]

BUT, the main point remains that they're personal opinions, not facts from the books.

just to quote a couple of facts from this topic:

-XF could wipe the floor clean while Jue Yuan couldn't without using tools (edit: we must keep in mind Xiang Wentian can perform a similar task)

-Xiao Feng fights aggressive while Guo Jing's style is more sophisticated

Here is my opinion:

-The Greats (the original 4) have never shown to be able to injure other fighters from the distance that DGSD experts have, and the distance is dependent on inner power. Therefore, it's natural to assume DGSD Experts > Greats.

[PJ]

I maintain the position that no L/ROCH-era Great was much ahead of the other Greats

So you believe that Guo Jing =~ Ouyang Feng?

I disagree.

At the end of LOCH, Guo Jing was still no match for Western Venom. But several years later come ROCH and Guo Jing >= Ouyang Feng already, illustrating Guo's ability to increase martial arts faster than "normal" experts (and obviously Guo improved a LOT faster than Ouyang). Sometime later, Guo further improved, demonstrating (some) superiority over Golden Wheel Monk. Then, some years later Ouyang dies, while Guo continues to expand his martial arts at a faster rate. So IMO, by the end of ROCH, Guo should be a LOT better than Ouyang.

Even the surviving Eastern and Southern Greats should be noticeably better than Ouyang. Afterall, Golden Wheel Monk improved quite a bit after all these years with his Dragon Elephant Sutra skill, and he was roughly around the level of South and East. Also Golden Wheel Monk was certain that Huang Yaoshi was not inferior to Zhou Botong, suggesting a narrower gap between Mr. Funnybone and East/South (if any).

[rabadi]

Can anyone find it, rabadi?, please.

I don't remember that discussion. I was about to suggest to PM Wang Chong Yang directly, but look he already responded to this thread

[Wang Chong Yang]

Hi PJ, its not Dragon Elephant sutra. The word Long Xiang should be translated to be Dragon Matrix or Dragon Image

[Wang Chong Yang]

"The Greats (the original 4) have never shown to be able to injure other fighters from the distance that DGSD experts have, and the distance is dependent on inner power. Therefore, it's natural to assume DGSD Experts > Greats."

Jin Yong wrote DGSD after the condor trilogy, nautrally his knowledge and more importantly his imagination become more fertile and feverish and hence the skill in DGSD looks more profound and powerful then the condor trilogy. But that does not mean JY really tries to mean that 9 Yin is inferior to Sweeper Monk or Bei Ming or that the theory of martial art in the condor trilogy is inferior to DGSD.

I am of the opinion that Dragon Palm is an inferior skill compare to Jiu Yin. If Xiao Feng is that powerful, it is only because JY descript in an exaggerated way in DGSD due to his literary license to write story in a way that enthrall people more.

I believe if Xiao Feng is to learn Jiu Yin, he may attain higher performace than Guo Jing because Xiao Feng is more intelligent but unfortunately he dun have such luck. I would just say he attain the highest level of unmodified Dragon Palm at the very most. He may be slighlt better than Hong Qi Gong before Hong learn a portion of 9 Yin.