View Poll Results: Who was the superior fighter?

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  • Gwok Jing/Guo Jing

    138 58.47%
  • Yeung Gor/Yang Guo

    90 38.14%
  • Not Sure

    8 3.39%
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Thread: The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

  1. #2221
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    Poll: 138 for Guo Jing
    90 for Yang Guo
    8 Not sure

    In reality: All 236 votes should go to YG: the reason?
    Equipped with the legendary Heavy Iron Sword.

  2. #2222
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    My post from another thread:

    Based on the source below, a 3.2 feet wide wave has a weight of 1100 pounds.
    However, the South Sea is known to have massive waves, so to repel the waves with speed of 20 miles per hour, Yang Guo's wooden sword must have exerted much greater than 1000 jins (1000 jin=1322.774 pounds).

    Furthermore, the wooden sword should be the same length as the Heavy Iron Sword which is about 1 meter or 3.28 feet long.
    Based on the article the weight of 1 cubic meter of water (1000 liters) equals 1000 kg.
    Therefore, 1000 kg = 1666.667 jins/catties.

    I wonder why Jinyong only always write "a force of 1000 jin/catty" when he referred to a palm force, weapon force. Why not write greater than or much greater than 1000 jin/catty. Something is not correct about his math.

    Pre-16 Jinlun Fawang/YG with HIS force was equivalent to 1000 mins/catties.
    Post-16 Fawang double his internal and post-16 YG had similar internal + the wooden sword or HIS which boosted his overall power/force.
    Therefore, the force of post-16 Fawang/post-16 YG with HIS is much greater than 1000 jins/catties. Incredible!

    Anyways, Yang Guo wooden sword must have exerted a force much greater than 1000 jin/catty to repel the ocean's waves.

    The following source from surfertoday.com:

    So let's do some math.

    According to physicists, a breaking wave can apply a pressure of between 250-6,000 pounds per square foot (1,220-29,294 kilograms per square meter), depending on its height.

    Can you handle numbers like this? There are many variables involved.

    The salinity of the water (the world's average is 3.5 percent); the height, thickness, and width of the falling lip; the winds involved in the equation; traveling speed; etc.

    Although the human body will not literally "feel" those massive numbers, it will definitely feel something.

    Big waves are surely heavy.

    1,000 Liters Equals 1,000 Kilograms
    If you want to get an overall weight for your specific wave, you can roughly memorize that a cubic meter of water (1,000 liters) weighs one metric tonne (1,000 kilograms). How about that?

    For example, a 33-foot (10 meters) wave with a falling lip that is 66 feet (20 meters) wide will mean that, if you wipeout, you'll feel the equivalent of 410 tonnes (410,000 kilograms) over your body.

    That's the weight of 488 Volkswagen Beetles (1967 model)!

    Another example from the average surfer's perspective: imagine a 20-inch (50 centimeters) thick wave lip, only 3.2 feet wide, in a summer three-foot wave.

    Total weight? A solid 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds).

    The weight of a wave lip can be tremendous. So make sure your duck diving skills are up-to-scratch.

    Protect your head and your back, too, because under such weight, obtaining oxygen will almost feel like a secondary need.

  3. #2223
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Poll: 138 for Guo Jing
    90 for Yang Guo
    8 Not sure

    In reality: All 236 votes should go to YG: the reason?
    Equipped with the legendary Heavy Iron Sword.
    Yeeep as long YG use sword or in sword/weapon contest YG would win but in hand to hand/bare handed fight I think would be draw even if YG in sad mode (full powered Sad Palm)..

  4. #2224
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    ..........
    Last edited by zhang3feng; 10-30-22 at 09:40 AM.

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    其实这些都很少会有真正的定论,强弱更多的是为了剧情服务。这是我的观点,我认为这样的比较是无意义的,因 为谁也无法说服谁。

  6. #2226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baneik View Post
    其实这些都很少会有真正的定论,强弱更多的是为了剧情服务。这是我的观点,我认为这样的比较是无意义的,因 为谁也无法说服谁。
    This is a fair point, though I will say that I don't think the point of this is to convince people of a definitive answer, but to enjoy the process of raising discussion and illuminating the attributes of these two protagonists.

  7. #2227
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    This is a fair point, though I will say that I don't think the point of this is to convince people of a definitive answer, but to enjoy the process of raising discussion and illuminating the attributes of these two protagonists.
    What the meaning I can't read Chinese..

  8. #2228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    What the meaning I can't read Chinese..
    They said that they don't see the point in these discussions because no one can convince anyone else, and that these characters strengths are often dictated for the purpose of the plot.

  9. #2229
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    I am a Chinese, I can tell you the question about who is the strongest Chinese media has asked the author several times, I put the answer and google translation below

    In 1999, at the "Jin Xue Seminar Dinner" in Alishan, S asked: "Mr. Jin Yong, which protagonist in your novel do you think has the most powerful martial arts?" Mr. Jin Yong replied: "It is very likely Zhang Wuji." S asked back : "Isn't it Linghu Chong?" Mr. Jin Yong replied: "Zhang Wuji gathers the strengths of each family, so it should be more comprehensive."
    In a speech at Zhejiang University in 2001, a student asked, "Which of the protagonists in your writing is the best in martial arts?" Jin Yong: "It's hard to say. I like Linghu Chong, Yang Guo, and Xiao Feng the best for the male protagonists. It's hard to say, but Guo Jing's martial arts are very good, so he should be number one. I admire Guo Jing for serving the country and the people."
    "Quanzhou Evening News" on November 24, 2014 "Conversation with Jin Yong: The Great Hero is for the country and the people" The reporter asked: "Which character in your novel do you think has the highest martial arts?" Jin Yong replied: "This is incomparable. There was a joke in ancient China "Guan Gong fought Qin Qiong", which means that Guan Gong of the Three Kingdoms and Qin Qiong of the Sui and Tang Dynasties cannot be compared. In my novel, you can say who has the highest martial arts in "The Legend of the Condor Heroes", "Tian Long Ba" Who has the highest martial arts in "Brave", but you can't say who has the highest martial arts in "The Legend of the Condor Heroes" and "Dragon Babu", there is no comparison."

    1999年在阿里山「金學研討飯局」S問:「金庸先生,你認為在你的小說中,哪一位主角的武功最高強?」金 庸先生回答:「很大可能是張無忌。」S反問:「不是令狐沖嗎?」金庸先生回答:「張無忌集各家之長,應該比 較全面。」
    2001年在浙江大學演講,有學生問道:「請問您筆下的主角中誰的武功最高呢?」金庸:「這個不太好說,男 主角我最喜歡令狐沖、楊過、蕭峰。武功最高就不好說了,不過郭靖武功是很好的,算是第一吧。郭靖為國為民, 我是很佩服的。」
    《泉州晚報》2014年11月24日《對話金庸:俠之大者為國為民》記者問:「您覺得您的小說中哪個人物的 武功最高?」金庸回答道:「這是不可比的。中國古代有個笑話關公戰秦瓊,意思是三國的關公和隋唐時的秦 瓊是不能比的。在我的小說中,你可以說《射鵰英雄傳》裡誰的武功最高,《天龍八部》裡誰的武功最高,但你不 好說《射鵰英雄傳》和《天龍八部》裡所有人物中誰的武功最高,沒有可比性。」

  10. #2230
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    Quote Originally Posted by 一个读书人 View Post
    I am a Chinese, I can tell you the question about who is the strongest Chinese media has asked the author several times, I put the answer and google translation below

    In 1999, at the "Jin Xue Seminar Dinner" in Alishan, S asked: "Mr. Jin Yong, which protagonist in your novel do you think has the most powerful martial arts?" Mr. Jin Yong replied: "It is very likely Zhang Wuji." S asked back : "Isn't it Linghu Chong?" Mr. Jin Yong replied: "Zhang Wuji gathers the strengths of each family, so it should be more comprehensive."
    In a speech at Zhejiang University in 2001, a student asked, "Which of the protagonists in your writing is the best in martial arts?" Jin Yong: "It's hard to say. I like Linghu Chong, Yang Guo, and Xiao Feng the best for the male protagonists. It's hard to say, but Guo Jing's martial arts are very good, so he should be number one. I admire Guo Jing for serving the country and the people."
    "Quanzhou Evening News" on November 24, 2014 "Conversation with Jin Yong: The Great Hero is for the country and the people" The reporter asked: "Which character in your novel do you think has the highest martial arts?" Jin Yong replied: "This is incomparable. There was a joke in ancient China "Guan Gong fought Qin Qiong", which means that Guan Gong of the Three Kingdoms and Qin Qiong of the Sui and Tang Dynasties cannot be compared. In my novel, you can say who has the highest martial arts in "The Legend of the Condor Heroes", "Tian Long Ba" Who has the highest martial arts in "Brave", but you can't say who has the highest martial arts in "The Legend of the Condor Heroes" and "Dragon Babu", there is no comparison."

    1999年在阿里山「金學研討飯局」S問:「金庸先生,你認為在你的小說中,哪一位主角的武功最高強?」金 庸先生回答:「很大可能是張無忌。」S反問:「不是令狐沖嗎?」金庸先生回答:「張無忌集各家之長,應該比 較全面。」
    2001年在浙江大學演講,有學生問道:「請問您筆下的主角中誰的武功最高呢?」金庸:「這個不太好說,男 主角我最喜歡令狐沖、楊過、蕭峰。武功最高就不好說了,不過郭靖武功是很好的,算是第一吧。郭靖為國為民, 我是很佩服的。」
    《泉州晚報》2014年11月24日《對話金庸:俠之大者為國為民》記者問:「您覺得您的小說中哪個人物的 武功最高?」金庸回答道:「這是不可比的。中國古代有個笑話關公戰秦瓊,意思是三國的關公和隋唐時的秦 瓊是不能比的。在我的小說中,你可以說《射鵰英雄傳》裡誰的武功最高,《天龍八部》裡誰的武功最高,但你不 好說《射鵰英雄傳》和《天龍八部》裡所有人物中誰的武功最高,沒有可比性。」
    Well that's why we can't agree with every JY words how could Wuji possesed the very best martial arts while he is not even the greatest fighters/martial artists in Trilogy..

  11. #2231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well that's why we can't agree with every JY words how could Wuji possesed the very best martial arts while he is not even the greatest fighters/martial artists in Trilogy..
    Jin Yong was known to give different answers to the same questions on different occasions. His opinions changed...or at least, he never bothered to really seriously think about it.

  12. #2232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Jin Yong was known to give different answers to the same questions on different occasions. His opinions changed...or at least, he never bothered to really seriously think about it.
    Yeah I wouldn't agree with JY unless his words is "logical"..

  13. #2233
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    It's also because ZWJ clearly doesn't have stronger martial arts than XZ, DY, or SPT, so by empirical evidence we have to rank them higher even if JY suggests otherwise. It's always the novelizations themselves taking priority, and then author's intent/opinion after that, though the latter clearly should rank above fan speculation or extrapolation.

  14. #2234
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    I am very curious why the people in this forum love Jin Yong's novels so much, and there are similar historical novels of Gu Long

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    Translation:I am very curious why the people in this forum love Jin Yong's novels so much, and there are similar historical novels of Gu Long

  16. #2236
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    It's also because ZWJ clearly doesn't have stronger martial arts than XZ, DY, or SPT, so by empirical evidence we have to rank them higher even if JY suggests otherwise. It's always the novelizations themselves taking priority, and then author's intent/opinion after that, though the latter clearly should rank above fan speculation or extrapolation.
    Totally agree Wuji even is not the greatest in Trilogy since people always place Guo Jing and Yang Guo as the best pugilist among Condor Greats which could fight "blow to blow" with people like Xiao Feng or even Dongfang Bubai..

  17. #2237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Totally agree Wuji even is not the greatest in Trilogy since people always place Guo Jing and Yang Guo as the best pugilist among Condor Greats which could fight "blow to blow" with people like Xiao Feng or even Dongfang Bubai..
    Maybe Cheung Mo Gei had the greatest potential...but never reached that potential for various reasons. Imagine if you gave Cheung Mo Gei the personality of Kiu Fung.

  18. #2238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Maybe Cheung Mo Gei had the greatest potential...but never reached that potential for various reasons. Imagine if you gave Cheung Mo Gei the personality of Kiu Fung.
    Greatest potential should be Yang Guo remember as good as Wuji he still need "manual" or "intruction" to reach his level though not bad but Yang Guo "self-made" improvement seem better since no one could learn from bird..

  19. #2239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Greatest potential should be Yang Guo remember as good as Wuji he still need "manual" or "intruction" to reach his level though not bad but Yang Guo "self-made" improvement seem better since no one could learn from bird..
    Yeung Gor had a lot going for him in terms of foundation. The FIRST thing he learned was some Ha Mo Gung from West Poison Au Yeung Fung. How many characters begin their martial arts journey with such an elite martial art, even if Yeung Gor's background in it was extremely shallow? From there, he received instruction in Cheun Jen Sect and Ancient Tomb Sect techniques from the Cheun Jen Taoists and Little Dragon Girl. He even got a fragment of the 9 Yum Jen Ging (left behind by Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung) from inside the Ancient Tomb compound. He then received additional training from Au Yeung Fung and Dog Beating Stick Technique from North Beggar Hung 7 Gung (strokes) and Wong Yung (verbal formula). From there, he learned Jade Flute Sword and Divine Finger Snap from East Heretic Wong Yerk See, and then the Golden Wheel Monk counseled him on bringing all these skills together to create a new technique all his own (something Yeung Gor later realized when he invented the Sad Palms). By the time that he came across the Heavy Iron Sword, Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword philosophy, and the snake organs that greatly deepened his inner power, he had a very solid foundation to build upon. Without that foundation, he would have gotten nowhere with Dook Goo Kau Bai's legacy.

  20. #2240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Yeung Gor had a lot going for him in terms of foundation. The FIRST thing he learned was some Ha Mo Gung from West Poison Au Yeung Fung. How many characters begin their martial arts journey with such an elite martial art, even if Yeung Gor's background in it was extremely shallow? From there, he received instruction in Cheun Jen Sect and Ancient Tomb Sect techniques from the Cheun Jen Taoists and Little Dragon Girl. He even got a fragment of the 9 Yum Jen Ging (left behind by Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung) from inside the Ancient Tomb compound. He then received additional training from Au Yeung Fung and Dog Beating Stick Technique from North Beggar Hung 7 Gung (strokes) and Wong Yung (verbal formula). From there, he learned Jade Flute Sword and Divine Finger Snap from East Heretic Wong Yerk See, and then the Golden Wheel Monk counseled him on bringing all these skills together to create a new technique all his own (something Yeung Gor later realized when he invented the Sad Palms). By the time that he came across the Heavy Iron Sword, Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword philosophy, and the snake organs that greatly deepened his inner power, he had a very solid foundation to build upon. Without that foundation, he would have gotten nowhere with Dook Goo Kau Bai's legacy.
    It's true Yang Guo have very solid foundation but without "cleverness" and "creativity" it's nothing that's why only Yang Guo among JY main heroes which could make his own "school" and "learned" from bird..

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