View Poll Results: Who was the superior fighter?

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  • Gwok Jing/Guo Jing

    138 58.47%
  • Yeung Gor/Yang Guo

    90 38.14%
  • Not Sure

    8 3.39%
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Thread: The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

  1. #201
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Bottom line is ... there's nothing that states YG's inner power practice will continue to grow after the extremely physical training with the waves/waterfall, while GY's 9-Yin and QZ technique will even when he's asleep

    Bottom line is ... during the two major fights with GWM, GJ is clearly the much better fighter.

    Bottom line is ... GJ has more experience than YG. GJ has the better mentality from the two. GJ has the knowledge of the whole 9-Yin,claimed to be the one of the best martial arts manuals in JY universe.

    Bottom line is ... the majority thinks GJ is better (LOOK at the POLL RESULT)
    Last edited by Temujin; 03-20-04 at 02:51 AM.

  2. #202
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Super: Like in real life, external chi can increase faster than cultivated chi faster in the start, but loses out later on. GJ got the highest class of Taoist energy too.
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    Rabad: There is a limit to what an external practice can gain, while the internal practice of 9Yin is more continuous. YG may gain energy in shorter period than GJ, but in the long term GJ will win.
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    Rabad: Let's just face it, YG's cultivation trainings *require* external objects, such as ice bed, sea waves / waterfall, snake gall bladders, etc. While with 9 Yin, you only require yourself to practice it. I take it as a one plus point for 9 Yin.
    --- You (Super) declined someone who used "real life" examples, and you used "real life" examples. Recall that YG during his IronSword stage was stumped when he hit a innerPowerGrowth wall and then was able to continue again, that was because he is searching (ok, the bird helped him but once the bird taught YG to "fish the fishes") he got new sources to increase his innerPower. And who knows, YG may goto taoism to continue to increase himself. It's not like the world is static.
    --- You gys assumed that external practice cannot broaden/influence to internal practice. Being able to adapt. "I Ching,"etc. Wuxia novels are about "human potential" / enlightenment (as in internal development). Recall YG "absorbed" QZ innerPower training and also recall YG's SadPalms is equal to a few 9Yin techniques. Who knows if YG or any other greats also developed an innerPower technique that rivals 9Yin?
    --- Now ask yourself this question: how did "greats" like HYS,1Deng,QQR even compare to ZBT/GJ, and yet their innerPower is roughly equal to these gys in the end?
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    Super: GLFW's internal energy were said to be about the same as OYF and H7G at the Hero Gathering. GJ tied with OYF 4 years ago, and were probably be able to beat GLFW after 1000 stances at the Mongolia Camp. So there is no inconsistency.
    --- If OYF=H7G=GWM and "after 4 years" GJ's innerPower doesnt even "surpass" GWM's innerPower than 9Yin is "really" messed up: using your reasoning. As for the outcome of GJ vs. GWM in Mongolian camp, JY himself gives us an uncertainty, so as a YG fan, I'm declining to comment.
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    Super: GJ just found out in ROCH right? So how does that make him look bad since he never used it to train during the 13 years.
    --- Some people want GJ to look even better with L/R doubleInnerPower, QZ training, etc.
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    Super: Therefore, it should be fair to say that YG does have a better start than GJ from young up to 16. GJ was 18 when he finally laft Mongolia with his two years of internal energy. YG at that time, had already had all the things mentioned above plus a little of 9 Yin.
    --- GJ got 9Yin training around age 18, has the headstart on training in 9Yin being older than YG, and trained 9Yin for 20yrs. And YG caught up. So what if YG got many opportunities in early age if GJ got "9Yin" sooner (like 20 years ago). It seems external powerUps are nigh endless. There is no excuse for GJ and if we "add" he is a "hard working" individual, then 9Yin looks "bad."

  3. #203
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    --- Not sure, but if "true", then the formula of giving GJ=(age 33) actually "overly" improves GJ's_innerPower_rate [Since GJ=38 lowers GJ's innerPower rate.]
    I might not understand this, but how in the world are you calculating this?

    GJ with his 9 yin power was able to go hand and hand with one of the top fighter in the world. At this time he was only 33.

    Fast forward 4 years ahead and he's about 37. By this time, most of the reader agreed that he is already number one in the world. As explained by JY in chapter 12 "QY唼mslCcNCߎZ cCsR^ 疢K\_ߑCo֖@IqrCߐ ݈CsCc DсCߐkB"

    In this time, most of the heroes in the central plain knows that GJ has excellence martial art, and he is also young. He could be considered number one in the world. In this time, even his master H7G maynot be able to defeat him. If he goes against the Golden Wheel MOnk, there is no way he is going to lose."

    I know that in the quote there are *could be* and *May Not*, but hey, we got to start somewhere right? If I'm not wrong, I don't think JY said anything like this to YG anywhere.

    At the heroes conference, GJ and Golden Wheel Monk exchange palm twice. Both were not able to get the upper hand, in neither of the palm exchange.

    Fast forward 1 year later, GJ is about 38 or 39(still not at his peak) he was ambushed by Kublai Khan's warriors. Later Jing Yong said that it would take more than a thousand moves before GJ and JLFW would decide the victor. And somewhere inthere, because he was 20 years older than GJ, he had 20 more years of inner power development. We look at the facts and we find out that its actually not true. He went up against OYF who was at 70 something years old, a palm clash. A draw. GJ was 33. He had two palm clashes with golden wheel monk. Both ended in draw. GJ was 37. At 38, JLFW and Co. ambushed on GJ. Not only was he not losing, he even gained a couple of upper hand, and fight to a draw.


    9 yin not powerful? Well it was powerful enough for a young man to catch up to all the greats in a real short amount of time.


    Somebody made a comment that GJ cannot have escape the ambush all by himself. I don't know who that is, but whoever it is he/she is so dead wrong. This is the first time I've actually heard about his kind of comment, because EVERYONE knows that if it weren't for YG, GJ could have escaped from that fight unscratched, unharmed, and untouched. And by the way he did! His Qing Gong is head and shoulders beyong JLFW or any of the people who was ambushing him. As he have shown that he was able to perform the big dipper formation all by himself. Plus, there was a Qing GOng section in 9 YIn book as well.

    To sum up: TO say that JLFW is better than GJ after the 16 years, half will say yes, half will say no. But to say that JLFW is better than GJ before the 16 years, interms of techniques or INNER POWER, is greatly underestamting him.




    QF

  4. #204
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    There is no excuse for GJ and if we "add" he is a "hard working" individual, then 9Yin looks "bad."
    THere is no excuse. Thats why we all think that GJ is the best

    Basically, GJ got the best of both worlds at the end of condor trilogy. He was 55, or something like that at the end. He is at the peak of his martial arts(as stated by Qiao Feng, in Tian Long Bat Bu). He is neither too old(where his stamina runs out quickly) or too young(where he has not reach his peak yet). He is not inexperience. All his martial arts are top notch. Knows everything Zhou Bo Tung knows, plus Xiang Long, plus the most important inner power cultivation in 9 yin.

    I mean, whether you're talking about inner power, or skills, or too young or too old,experience, or no experience, the odds are kinda in favor for GJ here



    QF

  5. #205
    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    Originally posted by -NSX-
    GJ at 37 can not defeat GWM at the end of ROCH. On the other hand, YG, at 36 killed GWM at the end of ROCH.

    17 years of 9 yin < 16 years of DGQB's technique.
    how do u know in 16 years YG only developed DGQB technique ? he might get some insight from part of 9 yin that WJY left in the tomb.
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  6. #206
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    That is only in the adaptations. Yi Deng would have died if he took on those strikes. Yi Deng used his palms, and of course he will lose, since he is not H7G. And I never really stressed that WYS is neccesary equal to YG, although I do not think that he will defeat YG in a battle. That contest of YG was a test in the power of their techniques, and it was a draw. But we don't know what will actually happen in a battle. I say HYS will lose, but probably he is not much inferior to YG in my opinion.

    No its not 1deng did not use palm techs against QQR he used two palms to defend once and avoided fighting the whole time by escapting QQR palms. After 14 stances 1deng coughed out blood it does not state it but i assume he got hit. Through out the fight QQR kept yelling ay 1deng to fight back. Actually he told him to "wan sow" but 1deng refused to.1deng DID NOT fight against qqr where did u get that from?3rd edittion? i never read that but from my version off a site 1deng does not raise a hand to attack QQR.He was QQR sifu and enlightened and above revenge. Also it was stated that 1yangz and IPT are pretty equal but martial arts wise 1deng could be QQR master. Yg commented that(i think it was YG) 1Deng skills were not below QQR as well......what else did i miss? ...o yeah when 1deng used his palms to collide with QQR its was equal though i belive QQR may have been holding back.

    Damn i got so much Sh!t due in about 2 weeks i should not b on this site but its so addicting

  7. #207
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    QF: I might not understand this, but how in the world are you calculating this?
    GJ with his 9 yin power was able to go hand and hand with one of the top fighter in the world. At this time he was only 33.
    --- Egad, those headache answers. Ok, I'll try to explain. I quoted this so it doesnt look as messy:
    First, I used GWM as the best intermediary to compare GJ and YG, becuz GJ and YG both fought with him. And GWN and GJ during Hero'sFeast is the best place to start cuz that is their earliest match and they are roughly equal.

    So GJ=GWM=100 (innerPower point). It doesnt matter if its 50 or 100 but a higher number (but not too low and not too high) ensures a "good estimate" later on. [from Physics class.]

    Then I take their total_innerPower up to that point ( 100 ) and divided their ages to get an average_innerPower_rate at that point in time. So, 100/33. GJ "cannot" be age33 or younger becuz he practiced 9Yin for 20years, making his first practice to be at age13. However, I'm giving GJ a better rate to make YG look bad. Also, becuz Superboy doesnt believe in "natural (logarithmic) functions," I continue to use slopes [besides, I dont like calculating log ftns]. Another reason is GJ's QZ and 9Yin has a constant growth rate.

    To get GJ's innerPower after 16years, GJ_innerPower_rate x (4years to start 16year separation) and add this with GJ_innerPower_rate x 16years. Then add 100 (initial innerPower).

    Now, we want YG's average_innerPower_rate. The best place to compare YG's innerPoewr is the GWM vs. YG at QZ Palace, where YG is "almost" tied in innerPower with GWM. And note, YG during his first year out of the 16 years also improved his innerPower (it's mentioned twice, so I believe he should reached GWM's innerPower at QZ Palace). [note: It doesnt matter if we set YG's innerPower to 100.]

    YG in the first of 16year separation is around 21-22 (I used 22 to make YG look bad.) GWM's innerPower_at_QZ_Palace divide age22 to get YG's average_innerPower_rate at that point in time.

    To get YG's innerPower after 16years, YG_innerPower_rate x (16yrs - 1) and add GWM's InnerPower_at_QZ_Palace. However, this innerPower is if YG continues to practice DGQB's stuff and we only read YG's first 7 out of 16 years. So, this is YG's innerPower_max.

    To get YG's innerPower_minimum, YG_innerPower_rate x (7yrs - 1) and add this with GWM's_innerPower_rate x (16yrs - 7). And add GWM's innerPower_at_QZ_Palace to get YG's innerPower_minimum. [Note1: GWM's innerPower_rate is 100 divide GWM'sAge_At_Hero'sFeast, which is 20 years older than GJ: 33 + 20 = 53][Note2: GWM trained "harder" during the 16years, so this rate is actually crappy but I used this for YG's minimum_innerPower_rate.]
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    QF: In this time, most of the heroes in the central plain knows that GJ has excellence martial art, and he is also young. He could be considered number one in the world. In this time, even his master H7G maynot be able to defeat him. If he goes against the Golden Wheel MOnk, there is no way he is going to lose."
    .
    [I know that in the quote there are *could be* and *May Not*, but hey, we got to start somewhere right? If I'm not wrong, I don't think JY said anything like this to YG anywhere.]
    --- First, it's a good quote provided there are no better ones, which there are: The GWM vs. GJ fight and JY's comments regarding the fight and JY's later comments in Mongolian Camp. Second, "in this time ..." is JY's narration mode and not a "statement" mode. Third, "most of the heroes" doesnt mean "all" heroes held this opinion. 4) Like you said "he [GJ] <<<could be>>> considered" and "even his [GJ's] master H7G <<<may not be able>> to defeat him," both has uncertainties. 5) It is usually a good idea to have "three" sources to ensure your sources are consistent and reliable, but I'm breaking this so that doesnt matter here.
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    QF: Both ended in draw. GJ was 37. At 38, JLFW and Co. ambushed on GJ. Not only was he not losing, he even gained a couple of upper hand, and fight to a draw.
    --- GWM and co was "cautious" and want to eliminate each other. And GJ had to "escape" with his red horse. If GJ continues fighting, eventually he'll "die" as "stated" by JY. Like QiaoFeng, GJ used "intimidation" to survive and not "really" tie-ing.
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    QF: 9 yin not powerful? Well it was powerful enough for a young man to catch up to all the greats in a real short amount of time.
    --- Not saying 9Yin is "not" powerful, just not as "powerful" as characters in the story make it to be. If 9Yin can make GJ be "Gohan" of DragonBallZ, then sure I'll accept it's powerful.
    --- Truthfully, making GJ to near-match the "greats" in LOCH is indeed powerful; however, after that time and training for "10years," GJ finally "matches" to OYF/GWM. Meaning, there is no "constant" innerPower increase, or if it does, it's not as "quick" as people make it.
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    QF: This is the first time I've actually heard about his kind of comment, because EVERYONE knows that if it weren't for YG, GJ could have escaped from that fight unscratched, unharmed, and untouched.
    --- GJ "cannot" do it without his work-"horse." And that's GJ's strategy.
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    QF: To sum up: TO say that JLFW is better than GJ after the 16 years, half will say yes, half will say no. But to say that JLFW is better than GJ before the 16 years, interms of techniques or INNER POWER, is greatly underestamting him.
    --- Or "overestimating" the powers of 9Yin.

  8. #208
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    No its not 1deng did not use palm techs against QQR he used two palms to defend once and avoided fighting the whole time by escapting QQR palms. After 14 stances 1deng coughed out blood it does not state it but i assume he got hit. Through out the fight QQR kept yelling ay 1deng to fight back. Actually he told him to "wan sow" but 1deng refused to.1deng DID NOT fight against qqr where did u get that from?3rd edittion? i never read that but from my version off a site 1deng does not raise a hand to attack QQR.He was QQR sifu and enlightened and above revenge. Also it was stated that 1yangz and IPT are pretty equal but martial arts wise 1deng could be QQR master. Yg commented that(i think it was YG) 1Deng skills were not below QQR as well......what else did i miss? ...o yeah when 1deng used his palms to collide with QQR its was equal though i belive QQR may have been holding back.
    That was what I said, just wasn't that clearly. Yi Deng, did not just let QQR land hits on him like some others claimed. And how do you just assume that Yi Deng got hit? If JY didn't say he got hit, then I do not believe he did. It's simply Yi Deng's palms was no match for QQR's specialty. And there is no way that Yi Deng can actually be the martial arts master of QQR. What made you think that? I'm not sure about the comment, but what does Yi Deng's martial arts not being below QQR got to do with it? Yi Deng's martial arts is also not below HYS, so does that mean that he can be his master?


    --- You (Super) declined someone who used "real life" examples, and you used "real life" examples. Recall that YG during his IronSword stage was stumped when he hit a innerPowerGrowth wall and then was able to continue again, that was because he is searching (ok, the bird helped him but once the bird taught YG to "fish the fishes") he got new sources to increase his innerPower. And who knows, YG may goto taoism to continue to increase himself. It's not like the world is static.
    When did I decline real life example? If you read it over again, my reason was that the previous analogies are not good for comparing wuxia. Such as the karate, weight lifting, etc.. We knew that there is a setted limits to how much power you can achieve with this in real life. But I don't see anything wrong with using real life chi to compare to JY's characters. I found some of JY's remarks in the novel seems to have basis from real life chi. And don't you think your speculation of YG using taoism techniques a bit baseless? YG's main training was not taoism in ROCH, and we are now not comparing YG after ROCH. Plus, I don't think he can find any taoist cultivation that can match 9 Yin.


    --- If OYF=H7G=GWM and "after 4 years" GJ's innerPower doesnt even "surpass" GWM's innerPower than 9Yin is "really" messed up: using your reasoning. As for the outcome of GJ vs. GWM in Mongolian camp, JY himself gives us an uncertainty, so as a YG fan, I'm declining to comment.
    JY gave us uncertainty, but I think most people will agree that GJ will be the winner during the fight of Mongolia. Remember YG that time already thought that GJ was unsurpassed .So the chance of GJ winning is still leaning toward this side more.


    --- GJ got 9Yin training around age 18, has the headstart on training in 9Yin being older than YG, and trained 9Yin for 20yrs. And YG caught up. So what if YG got many opportunities in early age if GJ got "9Yin" sooner (like 20 years ago). It seems external powerUps are nigh endless. There is no excuse for GJ and if we "add" he is a "hard working" individual, then 9Yin looks "bad."
    At that time, he really trained very very less of 9 Yin. And also, his internal energy training of 9 Yin didn't start til about 19 something right?

    GJ at 37 can not defeat GWM at the end of ROCH. On the other hand, YG, at 36 killed GWM at the end of ROCH.

    17 years of 9 yin < 16 years of DGQB's technique.
    We're talking about 56 years old Gj versus 36 years old YG. What does this got to do with that? Isn't your point pointed out several time already.
    Last edited by superboy; 03-20-04 at 08:52 PM.
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  9. #209
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    My God, look at the poll. You YG fans are really losing out.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  10. #210
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  11. #211
    Senior Member philip's Avatar
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    No, I wasn't considering the skills, but in terms of internal energy. It should be ok like that. But good point, I didn't really consider the change in currency. But you get what I'm saying. Taoist internal energy simply does not slow down unless you slack off.

    Not really, becasue I nevcer said that YG can't beat the Greats. I just thought that he won't be really much better. And if I later succeeded YG<GJ, then that would automatically say GJ>ZBT right?
    if internal energy doesnt go down, then accordingly, ZBT should have gone well pass the greats by the beginning of ROCH, and even more beyond them by the end of ROCH and should be able to defeat them w/o too much effort (using the rate in which he caught up w/ the Greats in LOCH). GJ only managed to tie w/ OYF at the beginning of ROCH, he will need quite some time to catch up to ZBT. And since both ZBT and GJ use QZ+9 Yin (ZBT did practice 9 yin whether he likes it or not), their internal cultivation progression rate should not differ that extreme amounts, therefore, by the end of ROCH, you cant really be sure if he really did catch up to ZBT or not.

    Ya, but the 9Yin & Quan Zhen that Guo Jing learned will make his internal power increase day by day even he did not training
    while Yang Guo's Jade Heart Manual & DGKB internal power training brings a lot of inner energy to YG but not a state like GJ which his internal power increase everyday.
    Jade Heart Manual > QZ.iced bed allows unconscious cultivation.

    There is a limit to what an external practice can gain, while the internal practice of 9Yin is more continuous. YG may gain energy in shorter period than GJ, but in the long term GJ will win.
    doesnt matter, does it? Were not comparing an 80 year old GJ to a 60 year old YG. We are comparing GJ and YG at end of ROCH (about 56 year old vs. 36 year old), and we know for sure that YGs internal energy has been improving greatly during his 16 year separation from XLN.


    GLFW's internal energy were said to be about the same as OYF and H7G at the Hero Gathering. GJ tied with OYF 4 years ago, and were probably be able to beat GLFW after 1000 stances at the Mongolia Camp. So there is no inconsistency.
    yet, at the heros feast, GLFWs internal energy was slightly better than GJs. Does that mean OYFs internal energy is slightly better than GJs also? Does it mean GJ never caught up w/ the Greats 4 years after his match w/ OYF? There is quite a contradiction, no?

    Being unfair again. GJ had about 16 years of 9 Yin that time while GLFW had 40 years of cultivation with his Dragon Elephant thingy.
    and yet, YGs 20 year of culivation can = GJs 36 culivation of 9 yin = GLFWs 60 year culitivation of dragon-elephant-whatever?
    I didn't know how much the rate of YG's internal energy he improve after he trained in the ice bed but I only know that GJ who learned 2 years of internal energy training of Quan Zhen can learned all 18 stances of HL18Z in three months. This is a very high rate because someone in DGSD (if I'm not wrong) learned HL18Z for almost 20 years but paralysed because did not have enough internal energy.
    GJ drank some rare snakes blood which allowed him some massive internal power improvement.

  12. #212
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    That was what I said, just wasn't that clearly. Yi Deng, did not just let QQR land hits on him like some others claimed. And how do you just assume that Yi Deng got hit? If JY didn't say he got hit, then I do not believe he did. It's simply Yi Deng's palms was no match for QQR's specialty. And there is no way that Yi Deng can actually be the martial arts master of QQR. What made you think that? I'm not sure about the comment, but what does Yi Deng's martial arts not being below QQR got to do with it? Yi Deng's martial arts is also not below HYS, so does that mean that he can be his master?
    No u said 1deng used 1yang finger fought and got waxed which was not the case. How do i assume 1deng got hit? it said after QQR "threw" out fourteen stances at 1deng he puked out blood. What are u trying 2 say? 1deng palms were no match for QQR so he puked?He did not even attempt an offensive approach .It was stated in the novel that Martial Arts wise 1deng could be QQR master i did not say it.(unless my comprehensions wrong) here read it yourself and see where my mistakes are maybe im reading im not understanding something.
    http://www.qiqi.com/cgi-bin/bk.pl?fd...=jy04030&id=30
    I'm not sure about the comment, but what does Yi Deng's martial arts not being below QQR got to do with it?
    it means AT BEST QQR was 1dengs equal which was implied many times in this chapter it has nothing 2 do with the other quote.

  13. #213
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    if internal energy doesnt go down, then accordingly, ZBT should have gone well pass the greats by the beginning of ROCH, and even more beyond them by the end of ROCH and should be able to defeat them w/o too much effort (using the rate in which he caught up w/ the Greats in LOCH). GJ only managed to tie w/ OYF at the beginning of ROCH, he will need quite some time to catch up to ZBT. And since both ZBT and GJ use QZ+9 Yin (ZBT did practice 9 yin whether he likes it or not), their internal cultivation progression rate should not differ that extreme amounts, therefore, by the end of ROCH, you cant really be sure if he really did catch up to ZBT or not.
    On that, I did I already gave reasons that ZBT
    1) No longer practiced as hard as he did after he escaped from the islad
    2) Was getting quite old. Like how I said Yi Deng's internal energy was no long as good as his prime
    3) ZBT never actively practice the internal energy part or techniques. I don't knoe if 9 Yin increases if you didn't train, but I bet it will fail to compare to someone that actually actively train it like GJ.

    yet, at the heros feast, GLFWs internal energy was slightly better than GJs. Does that mean OYFs internal energy is slightly better than GJs also? Does it mean GJ never caught up w/ the Greats 4 years after his match w/ OYF? There is quite a contradiction, no?
    Although GLFW's internal energy was mentioned to be around the level of H7G and OYF, I don't think that it can be exactly the same. It was said that it really take about double the internal energy of GLFW or something to do that to the 5 ghosts I think. But I'll amit that they are probably roughly equal. And I believe that the feast was about 3 years after the match right? Remember tha OYF also improved during the 3 years also. If we count that GJ improved around twice as fast as the Greats, and GLFW is roughly about the same in terms of internal energy to a Great, but are still possible of being slightly different. then GJ at that time having slightly less internal energy than him isn't really much of a big deal.
    and yet, YGs 20 year of culivation can = GJs 36 culivation of 9 yin = GLFWs 60 year culitivation of dragon-elephant-whatever?
    This statement is invalid because you have no proof that GJ with 36 years of internsl energy is just equal to YG. The whole debate if 56 years old GJ vs 36 years old YG. So what proof do you have that YG is equal to Gj at that time?

    GJ drank some rare snakes blood which allowed him some massive internal power improvement.
    At about 17-18, HYS commented YG had his internal energy of when he was 30. GJ even after his training at Mongolia and the snake blood was not at that level, so the snake blood is not enough to even things out. And I don't see how massive the improvement is.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  14. #214
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    JY gave us uncertainty, but I think most people will agree that GJ will be the winner during the fight of Mongolia. Remember YG that time already thought that GJ was unsurpassed .So the chance of GJ winning is still leaning toward this side more.
    Thats insane had all the others just rushed in and were not internally fighting for a title he would have died that was stated in the novel. During the whole sequences JY kept stating reason after reason why GJ should have died but did not. GJ was= GWM at the time which is stated in that chapter it said nothing of a gap you are talking about. Had it been a one on one with GWM it would have drained GJ out and the others would have finished him. During the whole scene GJ realized he stood no chance and hes objective was to run not fight. I dont remember when YG commented that GJ at this time was unsurpassed could u give me the chapter and quote? Before YG gave up iron sword he remarked that with Iron Sword he has no equal under the sky is that true as well?
    This statement is invalid because you have no proof that GJ with 36 years of internsl energy is just equal to YG. The whole debate if 56 years old GJ vs 36 years old YG. So what proof do you have that YG is equal to Gj at that time?
    u have no proof in where GJ stands at end of novel its just your views and speculation which not every one agrees 2.
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-20-04 at 09:45 PM.

  15. #215
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Thats insane had all the others just rushed in and were not internally fighting for a title he would have died that was stated in the novel. During the whole sequences JY kept stating reason after reason why GJ should have died but did not. GJ was= GWM at the time which is stated in that chapter it said nothing of a gap you are talking about. Had it been a one on one with GWM it would have drained GJ out and the others would have finished him. During the whole scene GJ realized he stood no chance and hes objective was to run not fight. I dont remember when YG commented that GJ at this time was unsurpassed could u give me the chapter and quote? Before YG gave up iron sword he remarked that with Iron Sword he has no equal under the sky is that true as well?
    What is insane? I never claimed GJ will be able to fight off all the warriors, but it is till a fact that YG thought that Gj was unsarpassed. Since there is no way to prove for sure, we take just the largest possibility.

    u have no proof in where GJ stands at end of novel its just your views and speculation which not every one agrees 2.
    I am not sure what is your intention of this statement, but it seems that you disagree when I told phillip that his reason was invalid because there is no proof that 36 years old YG is equal to 56 years old GJ. The specualtions that I given, and the reasons are all in this thread. So why do you think I was wrong to remarked on that?
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  16. #216
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    I never claimed GJ will be able to fight off all the warriors
    No? thats what i thought this meant
    I think most people will agree that GJ will be the winner during the fight of Mongol
    so what did u mean by this statement then that GJ would ultimately lose? or tha he would not be able to fight off all the warriors but he would win?...right

    what im trying 2 say is u dont know GJ inner power at the end of the novel period.

  17. #217
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by duguxiaojing
    No? thats what i thought this meant

    so what did u mean by this statement then that GJ would ultimately lose? or tha he would not be able to fight off all the warriors but he would win?...right

    what im trying 2 say is u dont know GJ inner power at the end of the novel period.
    I was talking about GLFW and GJ's level in Mongolia, not really GLFW and all the warriors vs GJ. And of course we don't know what GJ's internal energy is, or why would the debate be started. That's why I posted up so many reasons and when you see some of them that you don't agree with, you quote it. Is it really wrong to say it is 'invalid' when a person provide no evidence or logics at all to back it up?
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  18. #218
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Then i agree GJ kung level INDIVIDUALY is far superior to all in monog camp excpet GWM in that case his slightly better(in my opinon) dont know he could be slightly worse but i doubt it.

  19. #219
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    No u said 1deng used 1yang finger fought and got waxed which was not the case. How do i assume 1deng got hit? it said after QQR "threw" out fourteen stances at 1deng he puked out blood. What are u trying 2 say? 1deng palms were no match for QQR so he puked?He did not even attempt an offensive approach .It was stated in the novel that Martial Arts wise 1deng could be QQR master i did not say it.(unless my comprehensions wrong) here read it yourself and see where my mistakes are maybe im reading im not understanding something.
    Now, can you give me the quote of here I said that YI deng still got waxed with his 1YZ? Either I made a typo or you read me wrong because I never believed that's the case. And yes, Yi Deng spit out blood because he was no match for QQR in term of palm energy. His specialty was his 1YZ. The QQR in the novel was roughly an equal to a Great. Yi Deng just defended with his palms, but he was no match with the Iron Palm in that way. Cna you give me the specific part where it says Yi Deng can be QQR's teacher in term of martial arts?
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  20. #220
    Member Vash|7ds's Avatar
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    excerpt btw the final battle btw YG vs GLFW 3rd edition, at this stage of the fight already 200 stances are exchanged..

    [...Also he saw that the techniques of Yang Guo were very marvellous and feared that after another 100 stances or more he would be defeated by Yang Guo....]

    After 16 years, its seems GLFW is still inferior to YG in terms of techniques. Whereas internal energy, the revised 3rd edition shows pretty much that they are about par (excluding YG's sad palm). My main point is, considering the major age gap btw the two, GLFW has twice the time to cultivate. Therefore, regards to internal energy, once a fighter reach to a level of the greats or in that field, the rate of increasing one's internal energy is greatly deminished. My point: it doesn't matter what kind of sources you practice, the effectiveness of improving internal energy once you reach that level is deemed useless (maybe not useless, but not as great anymore). So is this a reasonable arguement to say 9yin is over-exaggerated.

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