View Poll Results: Who was the superior fighter?

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  • Gwok Jing/Guo Jing

    138 58.47%
  • Yeung Gor/Yang Guo

    90 38.14%
  • Not Sure

    8 3.39%
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Thread: The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

  1. #341
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    In the end, I think they both exceeded Zhou Botong and others are were roughly equals.
    Sounds fair to me only way to put it since there is no proof to state other wise. But really where do u stand in all this? every1 has an opinion.

    I have 2 disagree with Gj being superior 2 GWM at mongo camp since a day b4 that event it was stated that GJ and GWM martial arts were equal.
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-25-04 at 11:37 PM.

  2. #342
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by duguxiaojing
    Sounds fair to me only way to put it since there is no proof to state other wise. But really where do u stand in all this? every1 has an opinion.

    I have 2 disagree with Gj being superior 2 GWM at mongo camp since a day b4 that event it was stated that GJ and GWM martial arts were equal.
    How dare you disagree!
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  3. #343
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    i dont know what happened whne GJ fought QQR and OYF or when ZBT fought OYF and qqr but GWM was up against 2 of the top fight five fighters in the condor trilogy 3 if u count WYS a top tier fighter and a high level fighter as well as two eagles.and hes mind was distracted the odds wre stacked up pretty high i mean 1deng alone would of been a heck of a match throw in ZBT and GWm was pretty much a goner.
    That is why I said what GJ did sounds more impressive.GJ was WEAKER than the 3 of them during that time.While GWM was equal to his 3 opponents.I think GJ fought lasted even more strokes than GWM during his fight.

    As stated earlier it seems that YG was attacking JLFW with full inner power and techniques at the beginning. In the fight with ZBT, YG made a deliberate decision to not contest inner power. So YG's full inner power without Sad Palms has an edge vs. JLFW, YG's partial Sad Palms with limited inner power equals ZBT.
    Disagree.I remembered YG vs ZBT is that both were going all-out in other words they are using full power in terms of everything.The decision to compete in terms of internal power is to lock their palms together and just use their internal power against each other.Even YG wasn't sure whether his internal energy is enough to defeat ZBT.

    It was mentioned that ZBT was afraid of JLFW's power, and dared not to met it head on. Since JLFW's power didn't seem to be due to his hulk-like muscles I'd have to imagine that it's due to his inner power. It was mentioned that JLFW was winning against 1Deng in an inner power contest until he became distracted.
    ZBT was afraid to take GWM head on is due to his internal power is not as the same in terms of agrressiveness like GWM not because he is weaker.It doesn't made sense for ZBT to use 'hard against hard' theory to battle GWM since ZBT wasn't proficient as GWM in using 'hard' technique.GWM was not winning in terms of internal power against 1D but rather stamina.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to say...
    I am just saying the fighters in ROCH era might give DGKB the competition that he sorely needs when he was alive.

    I have 2 disagree with Gj being superior 2 GWM at mongo camp since a day b4 that event it was stated that GJ and GWM martial arts were equal.
    Their martial arts level might be the same but not in the same degree.It is just like ZBT was in the same level with Greats in LOCH but not in the same degree.If I am not wrong JY did mentioned that LMS was one level below GWM but obviously when you read it you can't believe that LMS was really one level below GWM.It is the same thing when JY mentioned GWM was in the same level with GJ as Greats was in the same level with QQR.They might be same level but in different degree.

  4. #344
    Member Raden Wijaya's Avatar
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    Originally posted by duguxiaojing
    I have 2 disagree with Gj being superior 2 GWM at mongo camp since a day b4 that event it was stated that GJ and GWM martial arts were equal.
    You have to blame on JY then!
    He's the person who wrote the story!
    When you feel like you're the POOREST man in the world ....
    COUNT your BLESSING, then suddenly you are one of the RICHEST man in the universe!

  5. #345
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    You guys also have to keep in mind that there some flaws and inconsistencies in the novel itself. Maybe JY was half-asleep when he wrote this novel. I'm too lazy to go through it and point out which ones.

  6. #346
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Their martial arts level might be the same but not in the same degree.It is just like ZBT was in the same level with Greats in LOCH but not in the same degree.If I am not wrong JY did mentioned that LMS was one level below GWM but obviously when you read it you can't believe that LMS was really one level below GWM.It is the same thing when JY mentioned GWM was in the same level with GJ as Greats was in the same level with QQR.They might be same level but in different degree.
    in this part it mentioned nothing of their skill inner power or technique level ect...it was just as martial aritist they are equal.

    How dare you disagree
    so do u now believe that Gj and YG are equal asepertaed by the slightest margins now superboy? come on just do it'll just edn this whole long A$$ debate so do it. Look EVEN ATHENA STATED THIS
    In the end, I think they both exceeded Zhou Botong and others are were roughly equals.
    How dare you disagree!
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-26-04 at 12:30 PM.

  7. #347
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    You guys also have to keep in mind that there some flaws and inconsistencies in the novel itself. Maybe JY was half-asleep when he wrote this novel. I'm too lazy to go through it and point out which ones.
    Yeah i know but even if their is i take JY inconsistiences even over any experts with all due respect i have 2 much respect for the guy he did write the book . beside he could just explain all the inconsistencies by making up a bunch of stuff and it would be legit since he wrote the book.

    Yo lets list all the inconsistencies one i noticed is the power of teh sad palms. Why did it not kill GWM in one shot? When he collided palms with GWM they were equal so he should be able to kill or injure someone to the point of death with one hit even if they were high level martail artist. 18 years b4 it was said that if GWM did not take GJ dragon palm and attempted to kill YG he would have died under the palm but we know that YG sad palms SHOULD be stronger than the palm GJ used 18 years earilier. Yet he hit GWM with three stances at least one was a palm and yet GWM was injured but had enough strenth to save GX (from what i read of athenas 3rd edit). The power of YG palms were apparent when he collided with ZBT and GWM as well as WYS he should have been able to kill or injure GWM with one palm.Did GWm gain so much iner power to with stand 5 shots from YG and survive yet 18 years b4 he would not have been able to take one palm from a weaker GJ .



    any where else?

    how bout that the palms he used against GWM how was he able to match GWm with out full powr of sad aplms and only draw with a ZBT and HYS when he was full power. EVen if he ws using another palm tech in beggining he should not have been winning unless he was not trying against WYS and ZBT i dont know about the WYS fight but against ZBT it seemed that he was goin all out.( ifeel that if they had went inot a internal energ competition YG would have one slightly ZBT inner power would niot have been able to take YG aggresive power when they hit palm to palm plus ZBT inner power was not as deep as YG at that point.


    ZBT was afraid to take GWM head on is due to his internal power is not as the same in terms of agrressiveness like GWM not because he is weaker.It doesn't made sense for ZBT to use 'hard against hard' theory to battle GWM since ZBT wasn't proficient as GWM in using 'hard' technique.GWM was not winning in terms of internal power against 1D but rather stamina.
    He was albe to match YG when he used his 9yin fist tech and GWm and YG palm seemed to be equal to each other from their first exchange. ZBt did mention that he had never seen that type of power which GWM unleashed from a fist though.
    I am just saying the fighters in ROCH era might give DGKB the competition that he sorely needs when he was alive.
    i doubt it seeing that he may have lived in the same time as WS and possibly the createor of KHBD? can some one comfirm this? and from some post i read that he XZ and DY may have been alive at this time. Even if u disreagard that theory pieces of his skills were enough to make YG a top 3 in the trilogy. and he may have been able to take YG iron sword with a leaf.
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-26-04 at 12:38 PM.

  8. #348
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    Disagree.I remembered YG vs ZBT is that both were going all-out in other words they are using full power in terms of everything.The decision to compete in terms of internal power is to lock their palms together and just use their internal power against each other. Even YG wasn't sure whether his internal energy is enough to defeat ZBT.
    YG was not holding back but he definitely was not going all out*. If he was then he'd be using all of his Sad Palms which he most certainly did not. As for inner energy -whenever people attack they'll use inner energy. It's not like it's only manifest when then go into a push war. When YG throws out a palm it has inner power behind it. YG realised that techniques-wise he was on par with ZBT so he would have to risk going all out inner power if he wanted to win.

    Once again if YG was going all out power-wise, ZBT would not have thought JLFW's power was so impressive. ZBT would have thought "hmm, this is just like YG's". When JLFW clashed with YG there power levels were about equal. This indicates that:

    a) YG powered up significantly between meeting with ZBT and the battle with JLFW.

    b) JLFW became weaker prior to the battle with YG.

    c) YG didn't go all out vs. ZBT.

    d) ZBT has very poor memory.


    If 1Deng was running out of stamina then it was pretty quick. It wasn't like they were battling for hours. This is assuming that inner power is somehow independent of stamina which may not be the case. Great feats of strength and endurance seem to be attributed to abundent inner power. I'll see if I can come up with a list.

    ZBT was afraid to take GWM head on is due to his internal power is not as the same in terms of agrressiveness like GWM not because he is weaker.It doesn't made sense for ZBT to use 'hard against hard' theory to battle GWM since ZBT wasn't proficient as GWM in using 'hard' technique.GWM was not winning in terms of internal power against 1D but rather stamina.
    If you can't meet the power head on then you're weaker. You might still win in a fight but power-wise you are weaker. Soft styles rely on redirection and dissipation of incoming energy; just because you can roll with a punch doesn't mean you're as powerful as the attacker.

    I am just saying the fighters in ROCH era might give DGKB the competition that he sorely needs when he was alive.
    Perhaps. But given the miracle 3 week training program that boosted a poisoned, recently right arm dismembered YG into a force to be reckoned with... Has anyone else experienced such a boost in fighting ability in such a short time? Energy transfers not withstanding.
    HK47: Now do you understand the travails of my existence master? Surely it does not compare to your existence but still...
    You: I survive somehow
    HK47: As do I. It is our lot in life I suppose master. Shall we find something to kill to cheer ourselves up?

    -KotOR

  9. #349
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    Thank you for the divine intervention

    Originally posted by Athena

    When Guo Jing saw the jade hairpin which was used to kill Ni Moxing. He commented to Huang Rong that to his knowledge only two persons had such a powerful, robust energy.
    Huang Rong said yes, and added that unfortunately their teacher Qigong was gone and it was not Guo Jing himself.
    Just wanted to clarify that GJ was referring to 1Deng and HYS right?
    HK47: Now do you understand the travails of my existence master? Surely it does not compare to your existence but still...
    You: I survive somehow
    HK47: As do I. It is our lot in life I suppose master. Shall we find something to kill to cheer ourselves up?

    -KotOR

  10. #350
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    in this part it mentioned nothing of their skill inner power or technique level ect...it was just as martial aritist they are equal.
    I am talking about their overall martial arts level is different in terms of degree.

    how bout that the palms he used against GWM how was he able to match GWm with out full powr of sad aplms and only draw with a ZBT and HYS when he was full power. EVen if he ws using another palm tech in beggining he should not have been winning unless he was not trying against WYS and ZBT i dont know about the WYS fight but against ZBT it seemed that he was goin all out.( ifeel that if they had went inot a internal energ competition YG would have one slightly ZBT inner power would niot have been able to take YG aggresive power when they hit palm to palm plus ZBT inner power was not as deep as YG at that point.
    How about it fits JY dramatic story-telling way Really I don't think JY would think all this in that much detail when he wrote it.

    He was albe to match YG when he used his 9yin fist tech and GWm and YG palm seemed to be equal to each other from their first exchange. ZBt did mention that he had never seen that type of power which GWM unleashed from a fist though.
    Nah,ZBT was pushed back because that fist is not strong/forceful enough to go against sad palm.GWM's Tibetian inner power is very different from China's.Which is why ZBT remarked like that.Like I said YG's power is about equal to GWM's.Even H7G and OYF was shocked/excited with GWM's grandstudents Tibetian's inner power.

    Even if u disreagard that theory pieces of his skills were enough to make YG a top 3 in the trilogy. and he may have been able to take YG iron sword with a leaf.
    To me that is a bit overblown.It reminds me of DG9J that it will defeat all techniques in the world.He might be able use a leaf against 3rd class fighter but not against the Greats.Again too much speculation since we never really see DGKB fought or how that theory really works.

    YG was not holding back but he definitely was not going all out*. If he was then he'd be using all of his Sad Palms which he most certainly did not. As for inner energy -whenever people attack they'll use inner energy. It's not like it's only manifest when then go into a push war. When YG throws out a palm it has inner power behind it. YG realised that techniques-wise he was on par with ZBT so he would have to risk going all out inner power if he wanted to win.
    Then why he mentioned about the way OYF and H7G died?The reason they died because they compete against each other in internal energy.

    Once again if YG was going all out power-wise, ZBT would not have thought JLFW's power was so impressive. ZBT would have thought "hmm, this is just like YG's". When JLFW clashed with YG there power levels were about equal. This indicates that:
    GWM's Tibetian inner power is very different from other fighters.Just look above what I said.


    If 1Deng was running out of stamina then it was pretty quick. It wasn't like they were battling for hours. This is assuming that inner power is somehow independent of stamina which may not be the case. Great feats of strength and endurance seem to be attributed to abundent inner power. I'll see if I can come up with a list.
    That is the same reason why ZMK refused to ask Z3F to come out and help him against the 3 Shaolin Monk.1D was already 90 years old.His stamina is no where where he was 20 years ago and at such age he should not exerts too much of his inner energy.Just look at H7G and OYF at their final fight and they were at their 70's only.What more can you expect from a old man at 90's.

    If you can't meet the power head on then you're weaker. You might still win in a fight but power-wise you are weaker. Soft styles rely on redirection and dissipation of incoming energy; just because you can roll with a punch doesn't mean you're as powerful as the attacker.
    Like I said their internal energy is totally different type.If ZBT cannot take a direct hard power strike from H7G/QQR because his robust style cannot compared to them does that really mean ZBT is weaker in terms of internal energy?Another example Z3F felt that his internal energy cannot cmpared to ZMK in terms of aggresiveness/robust but his is definately more refined than ZMK.Does this conclude that Z3F internal energy is weaker than ZMK?Definately no.They are considered on the same class in terms of how strong their internal energy is.

    Perhaps. But given the miracle 3 week training program that boosted a poisoned, recently right arm dismembered YG into a force to be reckoned with... Has anyone else experienced such a boost in fighting ability in such a short time? Energy transfers not withstanding.
    The iron sword training to me is always the short-cut method to fight people like the Greats.Without the iron sword YG wouldn't stand a chance.That is why one needs to train for the wooden sword in order to escape over-reliance of the iron sword.If you master the wooden sword level doesn't actually means you are fighting at a higher level than using iron sword,it is rather you don't need the iron sword to have that sorts of power.One example is like fighter A can only match-up figther B with the iron sword.Without iron sword fighter A's martial arts level cannot compared to fighter B's.After fighter A trained in wooden sword,fighter A doesn't the iron sword anymore to match up against fighter B.He can use any sword to matchup against fighter B because their martial arts level is at the same level.

  11. #351
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    GWM's Tibetian inner power is very different from other fighters.Just look above what I said.
    Strange or otherwise, it's pretty clear from the translation below that ZBT had never encountered such power before.

    From Athena's translation of ROCH 3.0 (the 2.0 version was similar I believe. I just listened to that section of the ROCH audio book about a week ago):


    Zhou Botong felt that his opponent's power was omnipotent, he had never seen this before. Zhou Botong loves martial arts and whenever he knew someone who had a special skill he would challenge that individual to a duel. He has encountered numerous martial artists in his life, but even he had never heard or seen such strong power released by the Imperial Priest.

    That is the same reason why ZMK refused to ask Z3F to come out and help him against the 3 Shaolin Monk.1D was already 90 years old.His stamina is no where where he was 20 years ago and at such age he should not exerts too much of his inner energy.Just look at H7G and OYF at their final fight and they were at their 70's only.What more can you expect from a old man at 90's.
    Is this a tentative agreement that inner power and stamina are related? I believe H7G and OYF fought for several days even at their age.

    Then why he mentioned about the way OYF and H7G died?The reason they died because they compete against each other in internal energy.
    As I stated before: As for inner energy -whenever people attack they'll use inner energy. It's not like it's only manifest when then go into a push war. When YG throws out a palm it has inner power behind it. YG realised that techniques-wise he was on par with ZBT so he would have to risk going all out inner power if he wanted to win.

    To rephrase a bit: YG was matched with ZBT in technique, to win he needs to pour on the inner power, maxing inner power is dangerous to use in a fight case and point with H7G and OYF.

    Competing with inner power isn't some agreement between two parties. It's something that just happens when two opposing forces clash head on.

    Like I said their internal energy is totally different type.If ZBT cannot take a direct hard power strike from H7G/QQR because his robust style cannot compared to them does that really mean ZBT is weaker in terms of internal energy?Another example Z3F felt that his internal energy cannot cmpared to ZMK in terms of aggresiveness/robust but his is definately more refined than ZMK.Does this conclude that Z3F internal energy is weaker than ZMK?Definately no.They are considered on the same class in terms of how strong their internal energy is.
    Refinement is not the same thing as power. One is about control and skillful manipulations while the other is about strength of force. For example 1Deng's voice can carry for a great distance and still be heard clearly while YG's roar carries more power but he lacks the fine tuning to actually make intelligible sounds.

    The iron sword training to me is always the short-cut method to fight people like the Greats.Without the iron sword YG wouldn't stand a chance.That is why one needs to train for the wooden sword in order to escape over-reliance of the iron sword.If you master the wooden sword level doesn't actually means you are fighting at a higher level than using iron sword,it is rather you don't need the iron sword to have that sorts of power.One example is like fighter A can only match-up figther B with the iron sword.Without iron sword fighter A's martial arts level cannot compared to fighter B's.After fighter A trained in wooden sword,fighter A doesn't the iron sword anymore to match up against fighter B.He can use any sword to matchup against fighter B because their martial arts level is at the same level.
    Yes, YG did depend on his iron sword immediate after his 3 week training. His techniques did not improve upon learning the heavy sword but his power did. At this point with the recent loss of his right arm he could no longer rely on the fanciful moves that characterized his earlier fighting style. Without the sword he would still have the power except that he would be at a disadvantage against weapon users, and he has no great palm attacks as a proper outlet for that power. Keep in mind that he was almost able to match JLFW's inner power immediately after this training.

    This marked YG's transition from a finesse fighter to a power fighter... eventually he'll have both power and finesse after the 16 year separation. Possibly a YG with both arms might have reached the power and finesse stage sooner upon learning the iron sword.

    Also note that despite the iron sword itself being YG's trump card, no one was actually able to take it away from him, and people certainly tried.
    HK47: Now do you understand the travails of my existence master? Surely it does not compare to your existence but still...
    You: I survive somehow
    HK47: As do I. It is our lot in life I suppose master. Shall we find something to kill to cheer ourselves up?

    -KotOR

  12. #352
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Once again if YG was going all out power-wise, ZBT would not have thought JLFW's power was so impressive. ZBT would have thought "hmm, this is just like YG's". When JLFW clashed with YG there power levels were about equal. This indicates that:
    YG was with holding power till he realzied the skill and zbt possesed so he was forced to go all out it was stated that he no longer held anything back.



    To me that is a bit overblown.It reminds me of DG9J that it will defeat all techniques in the world.He might be able use a leaf against 3rd class fighter but not against the Greats.Again too much speculation since we never really see DGKB fought or how that theory really works.
    na man it was stated that no sword is superior to iron sword so he could use a leaf to defeat iron sword . Theres no direct evidence to show how powerful DUGU was but from his iron sword stage which YG fully mastered he was awesome even if he never reached two stages up i think he did though. So anyways using leafs grass stones whatever was suppose to be able to not only overcome powerful martail artist but was also superior to iron sword.

    If you can't meet the power head on then you're weaker. You might still win in a fight but power-wise you are weaker. Soft styles rely on redirection and dissipation of incoming energy; just because you can roll with a punch doesn't mean you're as powerful as the attacker.
    i think ZBT could have took that shot .YG could match palms with GWM and although ZBT palms shook from the conatact (from one of YG stances) he managed to match YG. But yeah if u talking about aggressive energy i doubt ZBT would be able to match GWM.
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-26-04 at 07:24 PM.

  13. #353
    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Originally posted by darkcser
    Just wanted to clarify that GJ was referring to 1Deng and HYS right?
    I can't remember, but it seems that from Athena's statement GJ was referring to two people, one was H7Q whom HR commented had already been gone, and the other was GJ himself who did not do it. If I'm not mistaken in the first edition Yelu Qi even thought it was his teacher ZBT (???). Gosh, I really can't remember, so many years already... I need to get hold of the book again

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    Strange or otherwise, it's pretty clear from the translation below that ZBT had never encountered such power before.
    It depends how you want to intepret that line.GWM's inner power was strong and different compared to other fighters.YG managed to match power with GWM indictaes they are about equal in power.When YG fought with ZBT,it was mentioned YG was going all-out not holding back.So ZBT has exprienced such strong force but not like GWM's which is strong and different from others.


    Is this a tentative agreement that inner power and stamina are related? I believe H7G and OYF fought for several days even at their age.
    Sort of if not,all the 90 years old fighter are regarded to be sure winner when they fight equally matched younger fighters.Older fighters cannot overexert themselves to a certain limit of internal energy if not their health might be failing them.I believe H7G and OYF would not died in Wah Shan if they were a bit younger after YG separated them.



    To rephrase a bit: YG was matched with ZBT in technique, to win he needs to pour on the inner power, maxing inner power is dangerous to use in a fight case and point with H7G and OYF.
    Then that is a bit contradicting with not holding back and going all-out.The point which Yg refered about H7G and OYF as I said is they are just competing based on pure internal energy.This made much more sense to me.

    Refinement is not the same thing as power. One is about control and skillful manipulations while the other is about strength of force. For example 1Deng's voice can carry for a great distance and still be heard clearly while YG's roar carries more power but he lacks the fine tuning to actually make intelligible sounds.
    To me 1D has more quality internal energy than YG but YG got more quantity and characteristic is more fierce.When one refine his internal energy,the quantity will be lesser but becoming higher quality.This is my opinion.I think this is online with the statement 1D mentioned that he didn't had as much internal energy as YG at his peak but in terms of refinement YG was nowhere near his.So I assume 1D has more quantity internal energy b4 he refined it.


    Yes, YG did depend on his iron sword immediate after his 3 week training. His techniques did not improve upon learning the heavy sword but his power did. At this point with the recent loss of his right arm he could no longer rely on the fanciful moves that characterized his earlier fighting style. Without the sword he would still have the power except that he would be at a disadvantage against weapon users, and he has no great palm attacks as a proper outlet for that power. Keep in mind that he was almost able to match JLFW's inner power immediately after this training.
    YG might still has some power without the iron sword but definately still not enough to compete with GWM.For example at QZ's temple,YG was definately losing to GWM when they compete in internal energy.So he needs the iron sword to compete with the Greats.That is the reason YG tried to master the wooden sword and create sadpalm in order to rid himself of overeliance for the iron sword.

    na man it was stated that no sword is superior to iron sword so he could use a leaf to defeat iron sword . Theres no direct evidence to show how powerful DUGU was but from his iron sword stage which YG fully mastered he was awesome even if he never reached two stages up i think he did though. So anyways using leafs grass stones whatever was suppose to be able to not only overcome powerful martail artist but was also superior to iron sword.
    The no sword martial arts theory is indeed superior to iron sword but that doesn't mean when comes to battle using a leaf would win over the iron sword.The theory of using a leaf as a sword is much harder to do than using the iron sword so it is true that the martial arts level of mastering a no sword theory is higher than someone who masters the iron sword theory but that doesn't really guarantee that the no sword theory martial artist will come out on top because he will definately be handicapped to use a leaf fighting the iron sword.It just like JY statement said that GJ at his current level he would be able to do what he want.If he wants to injure his opponent whether he use a kick or a punch,he would still able to do it.But GJ obviously can't do that against fighters like the Greats.GJ can only do that against 3rd rate fighters.Samething for DGKB.He would be able to use a leaf as a sword to fight 3 rd rate fighters but not against the Greats.

  15. #355
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    The no sword martial arts theory is indeed superior to iron sword but that doesn't mean when comes to battle using a leaf would win over the iron sword.The theory of using a leaf as a sword is much harder to do than using the iron sword so it is true that the martial arts level of mastering a no sword theory is higher than someone who masters the iron sword theory but that doesn't really guarantee that the no sword theory martial artist will come out on top because he will definately be handicapped to use a leaf fighting the iron sword.It just like JY statement said that GJ at his current level he would be able to do what he want.If he wants to injure his opponent whether he use a kick or a punch,he would still able to do it.But GJ obviously can't do that against fighters like the Greats.GJ can only do that against 3rd rate fighters.Samething for DGKB.He would be able to use a leaf as a sword to fight 3 rd rate fighters but not against the Greats.
    Not in dugus case Yg commented from reading the inscription of Dugus sword tomb that wooden sword could defeat iron sword meaning that the skill was higher and no sword was even more superior to that. When we see YG practicing with wooden sword it seemed to actually be possible that he might actually be able to defeat iron due to speed and high internal power. I dont know what no sword stage was like but if he was able to emit sword chi through leaves like iron sword it would be something to see. The thing is it the final stage was stated to be superior to iron sword stage which is pretty damn good already .After the age of fourty?or fifty? dont remember Dugu claimed that all could be his sword anything he picked up stones bushes anything so since this stage is superior to wooden then he would be able to use it to defeat masters more easily than wit wooden sword and iron.

    The no sword martial arts theory is indeed superior to iron sword but that doesn't mean when comes to battle using a leaf would win over the iron sword
    It was more than a theory it was a skill for dugu.at least from what he claimed.
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-27-04 at 02:51 AM.

  16. #356
    Senior Member philip's Avatar
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    originally posted by hitman That is why I said what GJ did sounds more impressive.GJ was WEAKER than the 3 of them during that time.While GWM was equal to his 3 opponents.I think GJ fought lasted even more strokes than GWM during his fight.
    however, a free for all fight is much more different from a 3 vs. 1 fight.

    [/quote]I am just saying the fighters in ROCH era might give DGKB the competition that he sorely needs when he was alive.[/quote]
    YG didn’t even reach the more powerful stages of dugu’s swordstyles, and look how powerful he is.

    That is the same reason why ZMK refused to ask Z3F to come out and help him against the 3 Shaolin Monk.1D was already 90 years old.His stamina is no where where he was 20 years ago and at such age he should not exerts too much of his inner energy.Just look at H7G and OYF at their final fight and they were at their 70's only.What more can you expect from a old man at 90's.
    how old is Qiu Qian Ren (iron palm guy) compared to yi-deng?

    Sort of if not,all the 90 years old fighter are regarded to be sure winner when they fight equally matched younger fighters.Older fighters cannot overexert themselves to a certain limit of internal energy if not their health might be failing them.I believe H7G and OYF would not died in Wah Shan if they were a bit younger after YG separated them.
    any type of powerful internal energy competition can lead to death/fatal injury, or else YG wouldn’t be afraid to compete in internal energy w/ ZBT. GWM was severely injured after his “competition” w/ YG at the QZ palace.

    YG might still has some power without the iron sword but definately still not enough to compete with GWM.For example at QZ's temple,YG was definately losing to GWM when they compete in internal energy.So he needs the iron sword to compete with the Greats.That is the reason YG tried to master the wooden sword and create sadpalm in order to rid himself of overeliance for the iron sword.
    YG was losing two GWM in terms of internal energy after a couple weeks of crash course w/ the iron sword, but he was giving GWM enough trouble in internal energy competition. However, if u look at the scenes right before he lost his arm, YG would never head face on w/ GWM because he is very clear that his internal power is far far away from that of GWM (even a XLN + YG would be weaker than GLFW in terms of internal energy)

    It just like JY statement said that GJ at his current level he would be able to do what he want.If he wants to injure his opponent whether he use a kick or a punch,he would still able to do it.But GJ obviously can't do that against fighters like the Greats.GJ can only do that against 3rd rate fighters.Samething for DGKB.He would be able to use a leaf as a sword to fight 3 rd rate fighters but not against the Greats.
    different analogy. Wooden sword/no sword stage should be better than iron sword for the user. Is GJ’s kick/punch better than his XL18Z?

  17. #357
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I thought that the wooden sword stage may also be talking about the level that the user reach, and it is not neccesary better than the user with the same skills to use an Iron Sword.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  18. #358
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Yeung Gor finally opted to stop using swords altogether and used Sad Palms instead. Is this a reflection of having reached the "No Sword" stage, or is it more a shift in martial arts philosophy away from swordsmanship towards hand to hand fighting?

  19. #359
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    YG was losing two GWM in terms of internal energy after a couple weeks of crash course w/ the iron sword, but he was giving GWM enough trouble in internal energy competition. However, if u look at the scenes right before he lost his arm, YG would never head face on w/ GWM because he is very clear that his internal power is far far away from that of GWM (even a XLN + YG would be weaker than GLFW in terms of internal energy)
    but the energy of an old persion is still proabably not as brute as a youngster. I thought that although a fierce internal competition can severely exhuast and injure a person, and old person will be a lot more at risk. YTZ died because he exerted to much at his age, while he probabably wouldn't if he were younger.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  20. #360
    Senior Member philip's Avatar
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    but the energy of an old persion is still proabably not as brute as a youngster. I thought that although a fierce internal competition can severely exhuast and injure a person, and old person will be a lot more at risk. YTZ died because he exerted to much at his age, while he probabably wouldn't if he were younger.
    YTZ???? not you tan zhi rite?

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