The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

[superboy]

You know this is not going anywhere so stop it before we both get warnings from the moderators.

So, you can't even explain your contradiction? How convincing in you being innocent.And if the extra vote just now is from you, you better don't think that I'm stupid enough to for it to actually be able to decieve me.

yea ppl...c'mon, does it actually make a difference who big bob, nsx, or top dog is? does it really matter what the polls say? cuz no one is changing their opnion no matter what the polls say anyways. there's 98 votes in the poll...i don't see 98 different ppl posting here. can anyone check who voted what?

Yeah, that's not the point though. Thing is this is an insult considering how it took months to have all those votes, but someone actually need to ruin it. You should of seen how the votes were added a few days back. You'll know it's someone behind it too.

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by superboy
So, you can't even explain your contradiction? How convincing in you being innocent.


Yeah, that's not the poit though. thing is this is an insult considering how it took months to have all those votes, but someone actually need to ruin it.

That poll has no validity to whether or not YG is stronger than GJ. Why do you feel so offended? You know, people do desperate things when they get pissed. Perhaps GJ got 5 straight votes because of you.

Back to topic, YG is stronger than GJ if he used the Ironsword.

[Ken Cheng]

The poll has been suspended until we get this issue sorted out.

[superboy]

See phillip, when I made a fuzz over it, the polls increases. Now it's like 4 votes for GJ and one for YG. Do you actually think it's a conicident? Cause it happened last time too. Someone is trying to cover up by giving GJ more votes.

[philip]

just a note....i don't even see whatz wrong with the poll....

there'z always been about the age difference between YG and GJ...

and on another note...it could be anyone messing the polls, maybe even more than one. honestly, if someone "worked so hard" to increase YG or GJ's votes...i don't think they're stupid enough to balance the votes out, unless they're jsut really bored and want to change the poll numbers for fun

dude...it seems like ur the only one whoz making a fuss out of it

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by superboy
See phillip, when I made a fuzz over it, the polls increases. Now it's like 4 votes for GJ and one for YG. Do you actually think it's a conicident? Cause it happened last time too. Someone is trying to cover up by giving GJ more votes.

Yeah. I just noticed that too. You got great mouse, Superboy.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
The poll has been suspended until we get this issue sorted out.

Horray for Ken!

I'll get back to the topic.

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by philip
just a note....i don't even see whatz wrong with the poll....

there'z always been about the age difference between YG and GJ...

Talk about age gap between GJ and YG. C'mon, YG at 36 is arguably and perhaps can defeat GJ who have 20 more years of trainings.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Top Dog
Yeah. I just noticed that too. You got great mouse, Superboy.

What does "mouse" suppose to mean in this sentence?

just a note....i don't even see whatz wrong with the poll....

there'z always been about the age difference between YG and GJ...

and on another note...it could be anyone messing the polls, maybe even more than one. honestly, if someone "worked so hard" to increase YG or GJ's votes...i don't think they're stupid enough to balance the votes out, unless they're jsut really bored and want to change the poll numbers for fun

dude...it seems like ur the only one whoz making a fuss out of it

It's just normally if a person lied on something,(like someone's identity) then you would think that he has the greatest chance of being the person. You should have been here earlier, the way the poll was added wasn't even logical. And I don't think someone can be that dumb too. But appearantly someone did tried to cover up last time, and just now too.

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by superboy
What does "mouse" suppose to mean in this sentence?


It's just normally if a person lied on something,(like someone's identity) then you would think that he has the greatest chance of being the person. You should have been here earlier, the way the poll was added wasn't even logical. And I don't think someone can be that dumb too. But appearantly someone did tried to cover up last time, and just now too.

It's just my way of saying you have used your mouse to vote more than one time.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Top Dog
It's just my way of saying you have used your mouse to vote more than one time.

Hah, for a person that lied and can't explain one's own contradictions, you got a pretty big mouth, not that I'm falsely accusing you.

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by superboy
Hah, for a person that lied and can't explain one's own contradictions, you got a pretty big mouth, not that I'm falsely accusing you.

Man. stop going off topic and show your negative attitude towards me. This is not going anywhere so please stop.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Top Dog
Man. stop going off topic and show your negative attitude towards me. This is not going anywhere so please stop.

Okay, first you said that we should stop or we'll get warn. But then you said that it was "me" who added the extra polls when obviously if you weren't too busy doing something" else that time yesterday, you would see the word "superboy" on this forum the whole time. I can't sneak around in invisible mode like you can. Now who is the person that kept on continuing? If you really want to stop, then you do not need to reply to this post. Usually I do not go negitive on people for no reason, nor do I blame people without much evidence .

[superboy]

to superboy: I¡¯ve already said that I¡¯ll diss out ¡°mastery¡± theory with you on another thread if you want. So if you want an answer¡_go make another thread instead of clogging this one up. But for dealing w/ HR¡_JY has mentioned how physical build can help a person and has also used gender as a factor on HR before. You know, I used to believe that in the wuxia world, the genders would be equal, too¡_but apparently not.

But then it is also the key point in this debate on GJ's level at the end of ROCH also, so it sorts of fit into topic.

highly possible, never said it could not. Unless anything shows contrary, any theory could be it. But¡_unless the theory is proven to be entirely true, it should not be used as ¡°evidence¡±, now should it? So, saying that GJ improved at the same rate is just as good as saying GJ¡¯s rate slowed down, neither being more correct than the other, so which should we used to measure?

So why do you believe in your theory over mine? Cause, people in JY's novel(not main one though) does not improve as tremendous as GJ did in terms of proportion when they just starts. So how can we say that it's mastery? How can this theory be reiliable if there is nothing to trigger it? Amount is the only logical trigger I can think of, but it doesn't apply on your thoery because people that mastered a cultivation achieves different results. And still, how can 9 Yin cause GJ to be at the Great's level anyway if the slow down theory apply to the Greats also?

no, I never said GLFW improved as fast as YG, definitely not THAT far behind. If YG can go into a good deadlock w/ JLFW (in terms of pure internal qi), then his energy is definitely not far behind. Also, the heaviness of YG¡¯s sword did help, but there are parts in which the weight of the sword doesn¡¯t play a role in his power.
Parts of fight at QZ palace w/ rough summary (if someone would like to do good translation on it¡_tkx ahead of time)

I partly don't think GLFW's improvement speed is that close to YG. Cause, if YG was really that close to him that time, then it would mean that YG had slowed down in the 16 years if GLFW wasn't much better than the Greats. So then, we can only sort of conclude that YG did slowed down a lot if the Greats are used as standards. I felt that it is much safer to use the Greats as standers since there are more of them, and they didn't find any new martial arts. Both the slowing down theory or bad adjustment is just a believeable. But I would think mine is more, since it always happens when the main hero was out of the reader's range and I don't realy see other side characters slowed down also. Also, GJ's rapid improvement in LOCH is probably bad adjustment because he had at least 40-50% of the Great's energy by the end of LOCH, in just 4 short year. Actually only like 1 year or less of really training 9 Yin's energy? So lets make his 4 year of training a two year worth of 9 Yin. That would mean that if JY's remark on OYF building a lot of energy is at least 35% more compare to himself in ROCH after 13 years, GJ have around 33.3 of his energy in LOCH compare to RoCH. That would say that you slow down a bit more than 3 times your speed? If so, then that guy that YG slapped around with his Sad Palms when competing with HYS only improved like less then 10% maybe? And the rest of the Greats could never reach their level considering how weak they were at 30.

summary: YG uses heavy sword to clash against Ni Mo-Xin¡¯s iron stick, forcing Ni Mo-Xin¡¯s iron stick to fly out some 70 yards.
Ni Mo-Xin tries to hit Yang Guo again. Yang Guo thinks, ¡°I already tried the forceful power of the sword, now let me try the softer power.¡± He forces iron sword to stick to Ni Mo-Xin¡¯s staff. If he wanted, he could¡¯ve forced out his internal power to cause Ni Mo-Xin to fly out a couple dozen yards (many ¡°zhang¡±) and fall toward the cliff. But he saw Ni Mo-Xin¡¯s broken legs, reminding himself of his broken arm, he felt pity and decided not to kill him.

Comment: first time YG hits the stick¡_I¡¯ll give ya, the weight of iron sword may play a good role, but the second time is basically all YG¡¯s internal power doing the work
summary: Yang Guo points the heavy sword at Xiao Xiang-Zi¡¯s waist. Xiao Xiang-Zi uses his steel staff at the heavy sword. YG doesn¡¯t move and transfers his internal power to the heavy sword. The steel staff hits the heavy sword and breaks into half. YG waves his sword to the right and left, breaking both of Xiao Xiang-Zi¡¯s arms.
Everyone was already stunned by the way YG defeated Lu Qing-Du, Zhao Zhi-Jing, and Ni Mo-Xin. But now, without moving his body or lift his arm, he managed to use purely internal power to quake away Xiao Xiang-Zi¡¯s staff. The people present didn¡¯t understand how it happened.

Comment: once again, YG used his internal power to break the stick, not the heaviness of the sword

Thanks for the summary. Good for YG being so flexible in combat, but that's not what YG used to fight GLFW which is the key. The Heavy Sword's main theory is still to smash your sword on your opponent so hard that they'll have to block it to compensate for the lack of speed. Of course I never said that YG cannot transfer energy in the sword as a combat method, as GJ did so too fighting the QZ diciple at the start. But, that isn't the reason why the technique of YG's sword was so effective. It was basically raw power.

[philip]

But then it is also the key point in this debate on GJ's level at the end of ROCH also, so it sorts of fit into topic

if we include GJ, YG, etc into the "mastery" debate, then if GJ slows down, then so does the norm, don't they? But, if you want to make GJ, YG, GLFW, ZBT exceptions...then there's no point debating that on this thread, now is there?

So why do you believe in your theory over mine? Cause, people in JY's novel(not main one though) does not improve as tremendous as GJ did in terms of proportion when they just starts. So how can we say that it's mastery? How can this theory be reiliable if there is nothing to trigger it? Amount is the only logical trigger I can think of, but it doesn't apply on your thoery because people that mastered a cultivation achieves different results. And still, how can 9 Yin cause GJ to be at the Great's level anyway if the slow down theory apply to the Greats also?

I partly don't think GLFW's improvement speed is that close to YG. Cause, if YG was really that close to him that time, then it would mean that YG had slowed down in the 16 years if GLFW wasn't much better than the Greats. So then, we can only sort of conclude that YG did slowed down a lot if the Greats are used as standards. I felt that it is much safer to use the Greats as standers since there are more of them, and they didn't find any new martial arts. Both the slowing down theory or bad adjustment is just a believeable. But I would think mine is more, since it always happens when the main hero was out of the reader's range and I don't realy see other side characters slowed down also. Also, GJ's rapid improvement in LOCH is probably bad adjustment because he had at least 40-50% of the Great's energy by the end of LOCH, in just 4 short year. Actually only like 1 year or less of really training 9 Yin's energy? So lets make his 4 year of training a two year worth of 9 Yin. That would mean that if JY's remark on OYF building a lot of energy is at least 35% more compare to himself in ROCH after 13 years, GJ have around 33.3 of his energy in LOCH compare to RoCH. That would say that you slow down a bit more than 3 times your speed? If so, then that guy that YG slapped around with his Sad Palms when competing with HYS only improved like less then 10% maybe? And the rest of the Greats could never reach their level considering how weak they were at 30.

same question to you...
point is...your theory is no more reliable than mine...vice versa

and why do i think GJ's rate was not tremendously faster than the greats? in the begining of ROCH, he is pretty much equal to a great....4-5 years later...he's still pretty much the same. If you blame it on bad adjustment...then what proof would you have that GJ adopted his rate previous to ROCH rather than the one he had in the 4-5 years?

and the Greats were not weak in their 30's...they reached great status around then.

Thanks for the summary. Good for YG being so flexible in combat, but that's not what YG used to fight GLFW which is the key. The Heavy Sword's main theory is still to smash your sword on your opponent so hard that they'll have to block it to compensate for the lack of speed. Of course I never said that YG cannot transfer energy in the sword as a combat method, as GJ did so too fighting the QZ diciple at the start. But, that isn't the reason why the technique of YG's sword was so effective. It was basically raw power.

raw power yes...but shows him w/o the sword is at least about a good 80% or more of GLFW's power. If you calculated that way, w/ YG being roughly or maybe a bit better than GLFW at the end, his rate decrease even more than GJ's. Therefore, it not at all unbelievable that GJ's rate slowed down so much.

[superboy]

if we include GJ, YG, etc into the "mastery" debate, then if GJ slows down, then so does the norm, don't they? But, if you want to make GJ, YG, GLFW, ZBT exceptions...then there's no point debating that on this thread, now is there?

What??????
I meant to not include YG and GJ, and include every one else so it can be unmistakable. What's the point of my theory only goes for the heros during their advanture, and you use them as evidence?

same question to you...
point is...your theory is no more reliable than mine...vice versa

and why do i think GJ's rate was not tremendously faster than the greats? in the begining of ROCH, he is pretty much equal to a great....4-5 years later...he's still pretty much the same. If you blame it on bad adjustment...then what proof would you have that GJ adopted his rate previous to ROCH rather than the one he had in the 4-5 years?

and the Greats were not weak in their 30's...they reached great status around then.

Oh come on. I asked first, at least give me an answer before asking me the same question. I answered already. Cause if there is no reason that caused them to slow down, which I think is the case cause I don't see much of a slowing downs on others, then bad adjustments as very likely. But you got your own theory though. And this one needs to be proven cause it sorts of contradicts with the general's people's improevemnt rates.
And was GJ able to fight an equiped GLFW? Yes? He fought an empty handed OYF previously, but a Great level fighter that's armed afterward. At least he gave young YG in the third revision he was unsurpassed after he had seen may great fighters. So although much not proof to it, it at least give you an impression that GJ had surpassed the Greats somehow by that time.
The Great at 30 was weak, at leat in terms of internal energy if they were at 18-19 year old YG's level. If they did improve 3 times slower than they did when they initiate their training like GJ in LOCH that was compared to the 13 years, then they would never have reached their level in LOch and ROCH. Plus again, slowing down after mastery cannot take place if the trigger isn't even there.

raw power yes...but shows him w/o the sword is at least about a good 80% or more of GLFW's power. If you calculated that way, w/ YG being roughly or maybe a bit better than GLFW at the end, his rate decrease even more than GJ's. Therefore, it not at all unbelievable that GJ's rate slowed down so much.

But, better cultivation should still be better even if we say that they did slowed down right? Is it liable that 9 Yin, the world's best martial art manual remarked by JY, would not be a better cultivation than the Greats? The cultivation that let yi Deng gained his internal energy in LOCH 20 times faster? Slowed or not, which is more possible? YG, which slowed down more than GJ, still increased faster than the Greats significantly didn't he?

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by superboy




But, better cultivation should still be better even if we say that they did slowed down right? Is it liable that 9 Yin, the world's best martial art manual remarked by JY, would not be a better cultivation than the Greats? The cultivation that let yi Deng gained his internal energy in LOCH 20 times faster? Slowed or not, which is more possible? YG, which slowed down more than GJ, still increased faster than the Greats significantly didn't he?

It's not how powerful 9 yin is, it's how one uses it. GJ has low IQ, don't forget that.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Top Dog
It's not how powerful 9 yin is, it's how one uses it. GJ has low IQ, don't forget that.

Was HR's IQ high enough? Can't even compensate it compare to GJ. People say training makes perfect. And we see that GJ can be really good at times. Like how fast he achieved results with QZ cultivation in LOCH. Much faster than the students with normal IQ. So his hard working attitude is more than a compensation.

[Top Dog]

Originally posted by superboy
Was HR's IQ high enough? Can't even compensate it compare to GJ. People say training makes perfect. And we see that GJ can be really good at times. Like how fast he achieved results with QZ cultivation in LOCH. Much faster than the students with normal IQ. So his hard working attitude is more than a compensation.

HR doesn't have much interest in learning 9 yin. GJ supposes to gain more from 9 yin, but he did not because he has low and limited IQ.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Top Dog
HR doesn't have much interest in learning 9 yin. GJ supposes to gain more from 9 yin, but he did not because he has low and limited IQ.

You will need to use more supports to your statment, cause there is nothing to support so. Can you explain why his QZ energy improved so fast? How does he learn HL18Z in one month.