The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

[philip]

Originally posted by superboy
I already said also that ZBT spent time doing nothing at the island, so he got a lot more time to train. Later on, I don't think he's that devoted anymore since he is just as ethusiastic about martial arts than training. So that is one possible way to think about it. And it's not just my logic, JY mentioned that QZ energy improves faster a couple of times as you practice for longer. Also, ZBT was significantly better than the Greats at the start of ROCH since GLFW also thought that he would lose to ZBT or something in one part before the 16 years. And I thought GJ and ZBT should be roughly equal, at least when he was 36-7 or so. He still haven't use his L/R techniques which can significantly increase your fighting ability. ZBT knows 9 Yin, but he never pracitce them anymore. And also, he never get to knew the parts that were not translated into chinese that time. And I took what Yi Deng think because I don't feel that it may neccesary hinder that much in terms of their level that much other than stamina. ZBT was not specific, but he believe that he was a better fighter. But Yi Deng also thought that his internal energy was not of his prime. But it does not neccesary means that your fighting ability is not what it is use to unless the fight last too long or that you count on using raw strength.

ZBT did nothing on the island...and what exactly did GJ do on peach island? ZBT went out into the world to "play" and GJ went to dedicate himself to defending Xiang Yang. plus, ZBT spent quite a lot of time in his "valley" place (forgot the name) where YG found him to train and practice martial arts and play w/ bees(he had nothing better to do). obviously, ZBT had MUCH more time to practice than GJ. So, why wouldn't GJ's rate decrease, but ZBT's would?

when GJ was 36-37, he was equal (and less in terms of internal power) to GLFW (as we see from the hero's feast), and according to your logic, if GJFW is = OYF, then ZBT should be quite some levels of above GLFW and GJ.

wouldn't fighting ability be related to your internal energy? on one hand, u claim that ZBT has weak stamina...wouldn't that mean his "physical fighting ability" is "weaker, and now you claim his "fighting ability", not "internal energy" is better than he was younger, and you claim taoist internal energy gets better the longer you practice it?

[duguxiaojing]

I belive that 9yin the reason Gj inner power is so strong. QZ inner power is solid but i dont know whats the big deal about it increasing everday even if your not training how many students did QZ have? where are they standing? How strong was WCY inner power?

Can anyone tell me what happened at the first battle of mount Wah? DId WCY slaughter the other greats? i rember someone on this board saying that WCY fought one at a time with rest so does that mean he was not Far superior to the other greats at the time?

[superboy]

Originally posted by philip
ZBT did nothing on the island...and what exactly did GJ do on peach island? ZBT went out into the world to "play" and GJ went to dedicate himself to defending Xiang Yang. plus, ZBT spent quite a lot of time in his "valley" place (forgot the name) where YG found him to train and practice martial arts and play w/ bees(he had nothing better to do). obviously, ZBT had MUCH more time to practice than GJ. So, why wouldn't GJ's rate decrease, but ZBT's would?

when GJ was 36-37, he was equal (and less in terms of internal power) to GLFW (as we see from the hero's feast), and according to your logic, if GJFW is = OYF, then ZBT should be quite some levels of above GLFW and GJ.

wouldn't fighting ability be related to your internal energy? on one hand, u claim that ZBT has weak stamina...wouldn't that mean his "physical fighting ability" is "weaker, and now you claim his "fighting ability", not "internal energy" is better than he was younger, and you claim taoist internal energy gets better the longer you practice it?

ZBT only spent his time at the cave with nothing else to do. GJ may not neccesaryily have nothing to do in the island. He can't neglect HR, his daugther, and also got stuff to take care of in the island since HYS was gone. At XY city, I already explained that GJ isn't really that busy there since there was a long peaceful time and there was a lot of people to help him. Plus he has no political position. Really, how busy is his position anyway?Not much. He gots more than enough time to train. And remember that the personaility of ZBT and GJ is different. GJ as hard working and does not play around. Also, if GLFW was equal to OYF, then didn't we already sort of see that there's a gap between GJ and GLFW already at the Mongolia gap. Most would believe that Gj will when after the 1000 stances. Plus, we gotta amit that your stamina won't increase as you age. So it is more possible that ZBT is talking about his fighting skills other than his internal energy. It is possible since JY also described that H7G's and OYF's stamina was less than before in ROCH, but their martial arts skills improved.

[duguxiaojing]

Actually, he learned it unpurposely.

really? i thought he accidently learned it while tricking GJ into memorizing the text....but if that is true he would not be able to use the skills if he only read them right?

[superboy]

Originally posted by duguxiaojing
I belive that 9yin the reason Gj inner power is so strong. QZ inner power is solid but i dont know whats the big deal about it increasing everday even if your not training how many students did QZ have? where are they standing? How strong was WCY inner power?

Can anyone tell me what happened at the first battle of mount Wah? DId WCY slaughter the other greats? i rember someone on this board saying that WCY fought one at a time with rest so does that mean he was not Far superior to the other greats at the time?

There wasn't much information about it, but we knew that the fight lasted for 7 days. There were both discussions and fights during that tournament.

[Ken Cheng]

By the way, has anyone ventured yet that Yeung Gor was better than Gwok Jing because I'm a racist?

[superboy]

Originally posted by -NSX-
In theory, YG should be slightly better than GJ.

You can explain your theory.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by -NSX-
In theory, YG should be slightly better than GJ.

But is that theory supported by the argument that Ken Cheng is a racist?

[philip]

ZBT only spent his time at the cave with nothing else to do. GJ may not neccesaryily have nothing to do in the island. He can't neglect HR, his daugther, and also got stuff to take care of in the island since HYS was gone. At XY city, I already explained that GJ isn't really that busy there since there was a long peaceful time and there was a lot of people to help him. Plus he has no political position. Really, how busy is his position anyway?Not much. He gots more than enough time to train. And remember that the personaility of ZBT and GJ is different. GJ as hard working and does not play around. Also, if GLFW was equal to OYF, then didn't we already sort of see that there's a gap between GJ and GLFW already at the Mongolia gap. Most would believe that Gj will when after the 1000 stances. Plus, we gotta amit that your stamina won't increase as you age. So it is more possible that ZBT is talking about his fighting skills other than his internal energy. It is possible since JY also described that H7G's and OYF's stamina was less than before in ROCH, but their martial arts skills improved.

What, then, did GJ have to do? he never appreciated the arts, never disciplined his daughter...the only other things he did would probably be eating, pooing, and sleeping (or busy w/ HR, but since she was busy w/ GF later, didn't have much time for GJ )

And of course, setting aside time to train is different from training all the time. He had to not only stress about XY, but now, also had to teach his daughter/disicples (who weren't exactly very quick), and carry a pair of twins (yea, HR got time, but she doesn't have that much time). ZBT on the other hand, may be playing around quite so often, but nevertheless, he is a martial arts freako, he wouldn't put aside his training, and he had spent much time being "hermit". and ZBT is much more of a talent than GJ

there was not much of a gap between GLFW and GJ at the mongolian camp...esp not in terms of internal power. GLFW was better off in internal power (as seen in hero's feast) before the 16 year gap.

So, according to your logic, stamina decreases and internal energy decreases, then what exactly improves the fighter? H7G and OYF did have better internal energy than they did in LOCH.

[philip]

But is that theory supported by the argument that Ken Cheng is a racist?

y not?

[superboy]

GJ cannot neglect his wife. You just don't stay with her just when you what to do it. And he amight also need to share times with HR taking care of the Island. Plus, learning HYS's martiala rts may hinder his internal energy progress. And on XY, can you tell me what hard work did he exactly to and how often did the Mongols envade? How long was the peace time. And more busy is him compare to the other Greats? And isn't it quite obvious that as much as a martial art geek ZBT is, his training time was till splited after he escaped from the island. I forgot if it exactly mentioned that the internal energy, but it was mentioed that their stamina are not as before, but their martial arts improved.

[superboy]

Originally posted by -NSX-
GWM's internal power was better than GJ's 16 years ago and it should be better than GJ's 16 years later. In theory, after GWM have reached the tenth level of the Dragon and Elephant Wisdom Dexterrity, he should have gain more internal power than GJ who has been practicing the same 9 yin over and over again.

GWM > GJ at the end of ROCH
YG > GWM
YG > GJ

Your theory simply does not work because GJ was no where to the level of OYF in LOCH, but tied with him at the start of ROCH.

[superboy]

i don't believe you have evidence to your theory.

[Vash|7ds]

Original posted by -NSX-
[ 9 yin helped GJ caught up with the greats, but over the years after he has reached an extremely high level of 9 yin, his improvement rate is average. While GWM took the Dragon and Elepant Wisdom Dexterity to a higher level meaning he is stronger than GJ.

GWM > GJ
YG > GWM > GJ ]

LOL i don't understand why you even class GLFW to be a better fighter than GJ. Even as a YG's fan, you're arguements lack evidence -NSX-. To sum it up, QUALITY is better than QUANTITY is probably the best way to describe internal energy between the two. One more point, if you read the hero's feast, you would understand GLFW was a no match for GJ.

[Raden Wijaya]

Originally posted by -NSX-
GWM's internal power was better than GJ's 16 years ago and it should be better than GJ's 16 years later. In theory, after GWM have reached the tenth level of the Dragon and Elephant Wisdom Dexterrity, he should have gain more internal power than GJ who has been practicing the same 9 yin over and over again.
GWM > GJ at the end of ROCH
YG > GWM
YG > GJ

Nice theory, but JY said that 9 Yin was one of the best kungfu manual in LOCH/ROCH era. So I don't see GLWM being better than GJ.

[duguxiaojing]

if you read the hero's feast

In what way was he superior? He used a stance of Dragon Palms which GWM matched. Their skills wre stated as equal or near equal.

QUALITY is better than QUANTITY

dont know what this is suppose to mean how is Gj energy a better quality?

[duguxiaojing]

9 Yin was one of the best kungfu manual in LOCH/ROCH era. So I don't see GLWM being better than GJ.

GWM ED skill was also quote

one of the best kungfu manual in LOCH/ROCH era

Wahts your point?

By the way, has anyone ventured yet that Yeung Gor was better than Gwok Jing because I'm a racist

Yes very intresting KC and after a very long thinking process i C the logic behind that statement.

So its settled then YG>SWeeper monk>DUGU>QF>GJ
beacause KC is a racist. And no one here can dispute that kind of logic.

[Raden Wijaya]

Interesting, but in LOCH 9 Yin became a treasure that everyone was looking for (etc. HYS, WCY, H7G, ID, OYF). IT MUST BE A BETTER KUNGFU than the one they have themselves!!!!

[duguxiaojing]

So its not as well known as 9yin. Dugu inner power and sword training methods are also on that level yet no one was looking for that skilll because no one had heard of it. obciously GWM could at least equal 9yin's power since its stated in book that GJ and GWM wre near equals almost everytime they met.

[Dirt]

Originally posted by duguxiaojing
So its not as well known as 9yin. Dugu inner power and sword training methods are also on that level yet no one was looking for that skilll because no one had heard of it. obciously GWM could at least equal 9yin's power since its stated in book that GJ and GWM wre near equals almost everytime they met.

Considering Yang Guo needed the snake bladders to build up his inner power, I wouldn't say that the Du Gu skills are as good as 9 Ying Zhen Jing.