The Bund 《上海灘》

[wingster1958]

I've watch The Bund 5 times already,I think it's one of the best chinese series ever made,everytime I watch it I find something new

[Ken Cheng]

Haven’t checked into this thread in a while. I’m currently in the middle of my first week of THE BUND III.

In this post, some thoughts on the closing of the first BUND, some issues from THE BUND II (including a matter of overall BUND saga timeline/continuity), and my impressions from the first week of THE BUND III.

Perhaps the most emotionally powerful scene from the entire BUND Trilogy was when Hui Mun Keung and Fung Ching Ching said their final farewell. Knowing that he has lost Ching Ching, Mun Keung hangs on to the one last shred of her that he can…the copy of the Ba Jin novel Family, which she carried with her on the day they met, in which was tucked away a photograph taken of Mun Keung and Ching Ching together back during their happier days.

Before she leaves, however, Ching Ching asks Mun Keung for the novel (and presumably, the photo inside it) back. Mun Keung duly surrenders the book to her.

1. What was Ching Ching’s intent in this move? Did she simply want her book back? Was it because she wanted a souvenir of her relationship with Mun Keung? Or, was it one final way to hurt him…to say that she wasn’t going to let him hang on to even that little scrap of her? Remember, by this time, she is completely disillusioned with him after he killed her father.

2. Was the photograph indeed still inside the book when Mun Keung gave the book back to her? The scene doesn’t indicate one way or another. In the first episode of THE BUND II, when Wong Yeut Kei goes to visit Mun Keung’s grave, she brings a photograph of Ching Ching with her…but it’s a different photograph (a solo portrait).

Moving on to THE BUND II:

NetDragon previously mentioned that he found the Ding Lik/Chu Yin Yin/Dik Wan Tze storyline “boring.” I’m inclined to disagree. While the conflict in THE BUND II was not nearly as powerful as that in the original BUND, it was far from boring. The Chu Yin Yin and Dik Wan Tze characters were not as well developed as Fung Ching Ching or Hui Mun Keung, but that helped to focus the spotlight more on the development of Ding Lik, whose story THE BUND II (and the overall BUND Trilogy) really is.

The most interesting character to me in THE BUND II, other than Ah Lik, was Chang Gwai. Watching his transformation from the good, brave, loyal kid from THE BUND who only wanted to help his brothers Mun-gor and Lik-gor into a conniving, vicious, self-serving, and murderous bastard was gut-wrenching. But Chang Gwai’s character was so essentially BUNDesque, which is more than I can say for…

…Mun Gwok Keung, Hui Mun Keung’s cousin. This character was introduced early in the story, but I felt he was used more as a plot device to sow the conflict between Ding Lik and Chang Gwai than to be an actual character. Mun Gwok Keung was too one-dimensional to be interesting: he was just a naïve kid out of the villages, and his character didn’t develop at all. As THE BUND is noted for its multilayered, complex characters, Mun Gwok Keung was a let down in being such a “by the numbers,” cookie-cutter country bumpkin character. What a waste for Hui Mun Keung’s cousin.

OK, now for some interesting discussion about THE BUND’s timeline.

THE BUND saga unfolds during the decades between the establishment of the Republic of China and the onset of the Japanese invasion of 1936. THE BUND II, especially, depicts specific events from that period of Chinese history.

When Mun Gwok Keung went to Hui Mun Keung’s grave, we got a clear view of the inscriptions on Mun Keung’s gravestone. According to the gravestone, Hui Mun Keung was born in 1902 and died in 1932. Thus, THE BUND must have taken place during the late 1920s/early 1930s because in the first episode of THE BUND, Hui Mun Keung was said to be in his mid-twenties and by the time he died, he was in his early thirties. At least five years passed between the beginning of THE BUND, when Hui Mun Keung first arrived in Shanghai, and his death at the end of the first series.

That 1932 date of death is problematic, however, in relation to events depicted in THE BUND II. THE BUND II depicts the 1932 Japanese blockade of Shanghai harbor and the subsequent invasion of the Japanese Imperial Forces after Shanghai authorities began denying basic services to Japanese expatriates living in Shanghai. One of the more notorious incidents was when five Japanese military intelligence operatives, disguised as Buddhist monks, got into a firefight with Shanghai gangland members and were killed. This event was depicted in THE BUND II (except in the series, Gwok Jen Cheung was the character who singlehandedly killed off one of the Japanese spies disguised as a Buddhist monk). This historical incident occurred in Shanghai during January, 1932.

Problem: by the time Gwok Jen Cheung had killed that spy and triggered the Japanese blockade of Shanghai Harbor, Hui Mun Keung was said to have been dead for “several years” already. If the killing of the Japanese spy occurred in January, 1932 as history records, then there’s no way that Hui Mun Keung could have died in 1932. He would have had to die at least a few years earlier.

Moreover, by the end of THE BUND III, which takes place more than one decade after the end of THE BUND (dialogue in the first episode of THE BUND III indicates that Ding Lik had been in power in Shanghai for at least ten years, and another few years pass during THE BUND III, so by the time that III ends, the first BUND must be at least fifteen years in the past, and possibly more), Japan still had not invaded China en masse yet. This must happen (in history) no later than 1936. With that in mind, THE BUND must have occurred in the early 1920s…perhaps beginning around 1921 or 1922, with THE BUND III perhaps ending around 1935 (that timeline still seems too compressed, however, because Ding Lik in THE BUND III was clearly at least twenty years older than he was at the beginning of THE BUND).

I was sort of surprised, actually, that TVB broke out the budget for THE BUND II to actually depict modern warfare scenes between the Chinese and Japanese forces in the series. THE BUND featured a great amount of street gang violence, but that could be done without very expensive special effects. THE BUND never depicted scenes of military warfare, however. THE BUND II incorporated war scenes. I’m used to seeing TVB war scenes in wuxia adaptations, but this was the first time I saw one for a series depicting the modern (i.e. 20th Century) era. Some of these were rather impressive by the standards of the time. One scene that was perhaps unintentionally humorous, however, was when Japanese warplanes were bombarding Shanghai. Instead of using actual footage from World War II, TVB constructed a miniature set of 1930s Shanghai and had a model airplane (a Japanese Zero) fly over the set and drop a “bomb” on it. Some pyrotechnics followed, and the Shanghai street set blew up. It looked *exactly* like the special effects that Japanese filmmakers used for their GODZILLA movies during the 1960s and 1970s!

Anyway, THE BUND II managed to surpass my expectations (mainly because I had set them very low after NetDragon’s remarks). It still does not in any way compare to the original, but it was solid…not the “boring” experience I was dreading.

THE BUND III got off to a solid start with the first episode (as did THE BUND II). Only time will tell if the series proves at least as entertaining as THE BUND II was. For some reason, though, although I like both actors tremendously, I feel there’s no chemistry between Wong Yeun Sun and Au Yeung Pui San in this series…which is weird because TVB liked pairing them up in many late 1970s/early 1980s series precisely because they supposedly had good chemistry. I’m not feeling it. I like their individual characters, Gei Sin Yung and Yip Chou Ling, but I feel there’s no spark between them at all…not even at the level of Gigi Wong’s Chu Yin Yin and Patrick Tse’s Dik Wan Tze from the previous series and DEFINITELY not at the level of Angie Chiu’s Fung Ching Ching and Chow Yun Fat’s Hui Mun Keung from the first series.

Ding Lik’s role seems diminished in THE BUND III. The spotlight is clearly on the younger characters this time, and Ah Lik’s story almost becomes part of the background. That’s a bit of a shame as Ah Lik finally seems to reach his potential in THE BUND III, becoming at last the man that Hui Mun Keung cultivated him to be. In THE BUND III, Ding Lik is no longer a man ruled by his insecurities or his passions, but a man confident in his power and his accomplishments, but who lives with the everlasting regret and pain of his youthful mistakes that cost him many friends and lovers. Indeed, in THE BUND III, you often feel sorry for Ah Lik: he has everything he ever dreamed of when he was a poor peasant boy…money, power, fame, respect…but none of the people he loved are around anymore to share it with him. Ding Lik knows the pain of being the last survivor.

[Ghaleon]

^ ken, gather all the posts you made, and write an essay on the Bund trilogy. it's a shame that it's only within the bund thread where only a small number of members are able to read it. u should seriously create a website dedicated to the Bund with all your essays. Some of your older posts (on The Bund) are gathering dust.

[Ken Cheng]

^ ken, gather all the posts you made, and write an essay on the Bund trilogy. it's a shame that it's only within the bund thread where only a small number of members are able to read it. u should seriously create a website dedicated to the Bund with all your essays. Some of your older posts (on The Bund) are gathering dust.

I wish I had the web-fu to do it. I can certainly do analysis and write it up, but my technical abilities suck. Somebody else would have to build it while I supply the content.

[Suet Seung]

I wish I had the web-fu to do it. I can certainly do analysis and write it up, but my technical abilities suck. Somebody else would have to build it while I supply the content.

OR you could just blog your essays on blogspot or another blog website. That way you can just post your writings up without the know-how to do it. Customized Graphics can be done even on blogs.

[Ken Cheng]

OR you could just blog your essays on blogspot or another blog website. That way you can just post your writings up without the know-how to do it. Customized Graphics can be done even on blogs.

I might give that a try. I doubt that there'd be more traffic at an obscure personal blog than at a popular forum such as SPCNET, however. This thread is probably getting more traffic than most blogs.

[Ghaleon]

I might give that a try. I doubt that there'd be more traffic at an obscure personal blog than at a popular forum such as SPCNET, however. This thread is probably getting more traffic than most blogs.

Probably. But why don't you put up a review analysis of the Bund on spcnet at least? Even I wrote a review and you have way more analysis and expertise than me. Put one up!

[Ken Cheng]

Probably. But why don't you put up a review analysis of the Bund on spcnet at least? Even I wrote a review and you have way more analysis and expertise than me. Put one up!

Like an overall review of the whole series, or an episode-by-episode breakdown?

If it's the former, I'd be tempted just to write, "GREATEST SERIES EVER!" and leave it at that.

[Ghaleon]

Like an overall review of the whole series, or an episode-by-episode breakdown?

If it's the former, I'd be tempted just to write, "GREATEST SERIES EVER!" and leave it at that.

just post something up dude. make it one gigantic analysis. Doesn't the Bund deserve something written by its biggest fan on one of the most popular asian tv series review sites?

[Ken Cheng]

just post something up dude. make it one gigantic analysis. Doesn't the Bund deserve something written by its biggest fan on one of the most popular asian tv series review sites?

There's alot of stuff here on this thread. It's just not very organized. I don't think I need to write a whole new analysis (I'd just repeat most of what I've already written, anyway, at least until I get some new insights). What Suet Seung seemed to be suggesting was finding more places to dump it for better exposure.

But I don't see where I can get better exposure than these forums. Who'd find/visit my blog anyway?

SPCNET is different. This is a MAJOR traffic center for people who have an interest in such things.

Here's something new: I've gotten to THE BUND III Episode 4, and I have to say this - I think the writers of the third series forgot they were making a GANGSTER DRAMA. It's not that the love story between Gei Sin Yung and Yip Chou Ling is innately uninteresting or that the characters are unlikeable, but...THE BUND is supposed to be a gangster drama. In four episodes, there's been only one fatal shooting, and that was back in Episode 1. By Episode 4 of the first BUND series, I think the body count was already up to two or three dozen people, and THE BUND II killed that many people in its first episode. By comparison, I think there've been a grand total of two deaths in THE BUND III in the first four episodes, and even the fight scenes seem to be, "Oh, yeah. We're doing a gangster drama. Better throw in a token fight scene, but let's not kill anybody" rather than the dramatic bloodbaths that characterized the first two BUND series.

Come on, people: this is THE BUND. Show me some blood, already!

[Ken Cheng]

One more query for speculation on the final episode of the original BUND: between Hui Mun Keung's final good-bye with Ching Ching and his drinking session at the nightclub on whose doorstep he would soon die, Mun Keung and Ding Lik have a discussion about their future. Then, we see a montage of Hui and Ding's gang gunning down rival gangsters as the two brothers become the top men in Shanghai. Was that montage meant to depict Ding Lik's fantasy, or was it what actually happened between Mun Keung and Ching Ching's good-bye and the night of the shooting? It's hard to tell how much time passed between the good-bye and the shooting. Was it the next night? A few nights later? Weeks later? Months? A few years? The timeline on these events is murky.

[almo89]

One more query for speculation on the final episode of the original BUND: between Hui Mun Keung's final good-bye with Ching Ching and his drinking session at the nightclub on whose doorstep he would soon die, Mun Keung and Ding Lik have a discussion about their future. Then, we see a montage of Hui and Ding's gang gunning down rival gangsters as the two brothers become the top men in Shanghai. Was that montage meant to depict Ding Lik's fantasy, or was it what actually happened between Mun Keung and Ching Ching's good-bye and the night of the shooting? It's hard to tell how much time passed between the good-bye and the shooting. Was it the next night? A few nights later? Weeks later? Months? A few years? The timeline on these events is murky.

They didn't really say, but I always assumed it was like a few years later. Ding Lik seems a lot more mature at the table during the discussion. This led me to believe that some time has passed.

[Ken Cheng]

They didn't really say, but I always assumed it was like a few years later. Ding Lik seems a lot more mature at the table during the discussion. This led me to believe that some time has passed.

Yes. Moreover, Hui Mun Keung said to Ding Lik, "Do you feel the distance has grown between us *lately*?" "Lately" means that things had changed recently compared to habitual behaviors in the immediate past. As of Ching Ching's departure, Mun Keung and Ah Lik had only recently reconciled after a long period of conflict. There must have been a time between Ching Ching's departure and the night of the shooting, therefore, where the two brothers became close again...to the point that Mun Keung could say that they had grown distant "recently."

I'm guessing a year or two might have gone by between Ching Ching's departure and the night that Mun Keung was murdered...time enough for the brothers to have consolidated their grip on Shanghai (and time for Dik Wan Tze to arrange Mun Keung's murder).

[Ken Cheng]

After three months, I finally finished viewing THE BUND Trilogy last night, and I'd like to offer some thoughts on THE BUND III and its role in the overall BUND saga.

THE BUND III is the weakest chapter of the three components of THE BUND. It was clearly done to perpetuate the popularity of the original series that carried over into the first sequel (THE BUND II) rather than to continue any storylines or thematic elements from the original series.

That being said, THE BUND III was not necessarily a bad series. The cast was highly competent (how bad could it be with Ray Lui, Au Yeung Pui San, Wong Yeun Sun, and Yeung Kwun?), and the writing and direction were solid. Unfortunately, as the third installment of the series, THE BUND III could not help but be overshadowed by its illustrious grandparent series.

Of the three BUND segments, THE BUND III focused on Ding Lik the least. THE BUND placed Ding Lik's character in equal importance to Hui Mun Keung and Fung Ching Ching. THE BUND II was almost entirely Lik-centric. By THE BUND III, however, despite Ding Lik ostensibly being the main character again, the series sometimes treated the character almost like a guest star in his own series. Ding Lik had fewer scenes than he did in THE BUND and THE BUND II, and when he did show up, you felt that he was in a supporting role to the two young leads, Gei Sin Yung (Wong Yeun Sun) and Yip Chau Ying (Au Yeung Pui San).

That was probably the intent of THE BUND III's writers. The story was definitely more about Gei and Yip than it was about Ding, although he was still a vital element to the story. That would have been fine, except for several problems.

Wong Yeun Sun's character Gei Sin Yung was basically likable and engaging, but sometimes watching this character, you couldn't help but think of him as being "Hui Mun Keung-lite." His story paralleled Hui Mun Keung's in some ways (particularly towards the end of THE BUND III), but the story was never able to elevate the Gei Sin Yung character above being a poor man's Hui Mun Keung with (at least in the early episodes) a slightly obnoxious sense of humor thrown in to distinguish him. That wasn't the fault of Wong Yeun Sun, and I'm not even sure it was the fault of the series' writers. I think that Gei Sin Yung's character, despite being the focus of THE BUND III, was still in the shadow of the memory of Hui Mun Keung from THE BUND and the younger Ding Lik from THE BUND and THE BUND II. Despite being a likable and interesting character overall, Gei Sin Yung never escapes the shadow of those two larger-than-life immortals. Thirty years later, people still remember Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik. Hardly anybody remembers Gei Sin Yung, and I don't think the problem was the actor (Wong Yeun Sun, whom many who watched 1970s TVB dramas know was one of the best actors TVB ever had).

Au Yeung Pui San's character Yip Chau Ying had the same problem. Her character was likable, but was somehow oddly unmemorable and undistinguished compared to Angie Chiu's Fung Ching Ching from the first series and even Gigi Wong's Chu Yin Yin from the second series. There was nothing wrong with the Yip Chau Ying character: she was attractive and had a likable personality, but there was just nothing especially compelling about her. Again, the fault lies not with Au Yeung Pui San's acting...nor with any specific detail in the writing of the character. It's just that the concept of this character failed to catch fire like the characters of the earlier series did.

Wong Yeun Sun and Au Yeung Pui San were two of TVB's best actors of the early 1980s, and they were paired up in a number of dramas during the late 1970s and early 1980s because they had great chemistry together. That was not evident in THE BUND III. The relationship between Gei Sin Yung and Yip Chau Ying just wasn't very interesting, despite Wong and Au Yeung's best efforts to bring these characters to life. The writers somewhat overdid the conflictive nature of their relationship to the point that it became almost ridiculous (they seemed to break up and make up four times per episode) and hard to follow. I really think, however, that more than anything, the two characters and their relationship suffered by comparison (fair or otherwise) to their famous predecessors from the previous series. Gei Sin Yung and Yip Chau Ying were fine characters, but they had no hope of escaping the shadow of Hui Mun Keung and Fung Ching Ching, or even Dik Wan Tze and Chu Yin Yin.

That leaves us with Ding Lik. It's a shame that THE BUND III did not place greater focus on Ah Lik because in THE BUND III, he finally grew into the character we saw great promise in, but often frustrated us in THE BUND and THE BUND II. In the first two series, Ah Lik was a man ruled by his passions. He was jealous and sometimes petty, and his vindictive side cost him dearly in THE BUND II. In THE BUND III, we get a more mature, wiser Ding Lik who has taken stock of his gains and losses, and has learned to let discretion rule his choices. But the thing that was seen in THE BUND III is that Ah Lik had acquired a magnanimity in his older years that we had seen flashes of in his younger days, but now has matured with his experiences. Ding Lik in THE BUND III has truly become a great man. Having achieved the height of wealth and power, his interest is no longer to acquire more for himself, but to take care of those whom he cares about (including his younger friends Gei Sin Yung and Yip Chau Ying) and, most impressively, the city of Shanghai. Yes...in THE BUND III, Ah Lik has grown from violent gangster into responsible people's hero and leader in the city of Shanghai, and he makes his choices more based on what would be good for the people of the city (and the people who work for him) than on what would be good for himself personally. Ah Lik made great sacrifices and demonstrated incredible generosity and compassion during THE BUND III that he would not have been capable of in THE BUND or THE BUND II, demonstrating that his character had grown and that he had learned from his past mistakes. Ah Lik finally achieved a greatness even Hui Mun Keung never did, and that none of his rivals ever approached. If Hui Mun Keung could have seen the man that Ah Lik became in THE BUND III, Hui would have been very proud and been able to take satisfaction that he had chosen to right man to help develop into a leader. At the end of THE BUND III, you are left admiring the man that Ding Lik has become and empathizing with his eternal solitude.

[Ghaleon]

Ken, have you watched any of the recent gangster drama's by TVB?

I only know of Split Second and E.U..

[Ken Cheng]

Ken, have you watched any of the recent gangster drama's by TVB?

I only know of Split Second and E.U..

No. Does TVB still make gangster dramas?

As a rule, I don't watch anything made by TVB after October 31, 1988, 11:25 a.m. Pacific Time.

Also, I don't think I could enjoy it just because I'll constantly thinking, "This isn't even 1% as good as THE BUND III, let alone the original series."

[Ghaleon]

No. Does TVB still make gangster dramas?

As a rule, I don't watch anything made by TVB after October 31, 1988, 11:25 a.m. Pacific Time.

Also, I don't think I could enjoy it just because I'll constantly thinking, "This isn't even 1% as good as THE BUND III, let alone the original series."

LOL. why that date? You're missing out on State of Divinity 1996 and Demi Gods and Semi Devils 1997. Those 2 are widely considered two of the best jin yong adaptations.

Anyway, you're right. TVB's recent gangster drama pales in comparison to the Bund. I don't think TVB makes much gangster dramas though.

So even the weakest of the Bund trilogy, Bund III, is better than most of TVB's dramas?

[Ken Cheng]

LOL. why that date?

It's a psychological thing.

Anyway, you're right. TVB's recent gangster drama pales in comparison to the Bund. I don't think TVB makes much gangster dramas though.

THE BUND was the first one, and it made gangster dramas hip at TVB for years, but I don't think TVB has attempted a 1930s gangster drama in a long, long time (discounting ONCE UPON A TIME IN SHANGHAI, the 1996 BUND remake).

So even the weakest of the Bund trilogy, Bund III, is better than most of TVB's dramas?

Heck, yeah. THE BUND III wasn't even half as good as the original series, but it STILL blows away anything TVB is doing now.

[QF]

THE BUND III wasn't even half as good as the original series, but it STILL blows away anything TVB is doing now.

Pretty big statement coming from a guy that doesn't watch anything TVB after October 31, 1988, 11:25 a.m. Pacific Time.



QF

[Ken Cheng]

Pretty big statement coming from a guy that doesn't watch anything TVB after October 31, 1988, 11:25 a.m. Pacific Time.



QF

The glimpses I've seen over the years visiting my folks tells me all I need to know about modern TVB, and it's nothing that the studio can brag about.

Did you need to sit through all of GIGLI to know it was a lousy movie?