The Bund 《上海灘》

[addicted2tvb]

I just finished Bund III. How depressing. Do you think Gei Sin Yung will ever discover that his girlfriend was killed on her way to see him? So, so sad. I certainly like Ding Lik's character in Part III. I was really hoping he would find true love at the end. How do you get at the 15-20 years passage of time between PI and PIII? How much time passed between the production of these episodes?

The difference in Ding Lik's personality is actually the best thing about THE BUND III. It shows how much Ah Lik has grown since Part 1. At least fifteen, perhaps twenty years have passed since the time of the first BUND (which causes all kinds of historical accuracy problems, but that's a whole other subject), and Ding Lik in THE BUND III is a mature man who has learned from his successes and failures over the years. He's much more easygoing and mellow in THE BUND III, and seems to place greater importance upon his friends, his employees, and his city than on himself. In short, Ding Lik has become a leader.

But yes, to call this series THE BUND (III) almost seems like a misnomer because the story really wasn't about Ding Lik as much as it was about Gei Sin Yung. Gei Sin Yung was an interesting and likable character in his own right, but compared to Hui Mun Keung or the younger Ding Lik, he seemed lacking.

The original BUND was about Hui Mun Keung, with Ding Lik playing a major supporting role. THE BUND II was entirely about Ding Lik. THE BUND III was about Gei Sin Yung with Ding Lik in a supporting role (much lesser than the one that he had in the first BUND).

[Ken Cheng]

I just finished Bund III. How depressing. Do you think Gei Sin Yung will ever discover that his girlfriend was killed on her way to see him? So, so sad.

The ending was open-ended, but essentially tragic. It wouldn't be THE BUND without a tragic ending.

Curiously, just two years later, TVB would recycle almost the *exact* same ending for SOLDIER OF FORTUNE, a series starring Felix Wong (who, we should note, also played a notable role in the final scenes of THE BUND III).

I certainly like Ding Lik's character in Part III. I was really hoping he would find true love at the end.

I think Ding Lik's solitude defined his character. To be at the top was a lonely experience. This was a theme that TVB returned to time and again in its 1980s series. We saw it in THE SHELL GAME (with Tam Sing), and we also see this theme in many wuxia adaptations. The message, it would seem, is that being the master of all that one surveys is a profoundly lonely experience.

How do you get at the 15-20 years passage of time between PI and PIII? How much time passed between the production of these episodes?

This takes a bit of logical reconstruction, but can be done.

From the time that THE BUND begins to the time that Hui Mun Keung betrays Fung Ging Yiu, at least two years pass (in Episode 7 of THE BUND, Hui Mun Keung tells Fung Ching Ching that he had first come to Shanghai two years earlier; curiously, however, Ding Lik contradicts this in Episode 12 when he reminds Hui Mun Keung that he and Hui first met one year ago).

Hui Mun Keung was absent from Shanghai for an extended period of time. This time was not specified, but was long enough for him to settle down in Hong Kong and get married (to Ah Tei), as well as for Ding Lik to replace him as Fung Ging Yiu's right-hand man. Reasonably, this was at least a year...perhaps even two or three.

The events from the time that Hui Mun Keung returned to Shanghai to Hui's death at the end of the first series must have taken at least one year (during that year, Ding Lik was shot, fully recovered, married Fung Ching Ching, and was separated from her). The timespan of THE BUND from Episode 1-25 cannot be any less than three years, and is more likely four or even five years.

THE BUND II opens almost immediately after THE BUND, but a year passes between Hui Mun Keung's death and Ding Lik's discovery that Dik Wan Tze was the mastermind behind Hui Mun Keung's death (Chang Gwai mentioned to Ding Lik that their gang had spent the past year hunting down and killing the men who had murdered Hui). During this same year, Ding Lik's son was born.

Judging from his appearance and behavior, Ding Lik's son was at least five years old (if not older) when he fatally shot himself. Thus, from the beginning of THE BUND to the point of the death of Ding Lik's son, at least nine years had passed.

Some more time passes between the death of Ding Lik's son and the end of THE BUND II. We see Ding Lik visibly age during this time, and his mother passes away. I figure at least another year (if not longer) passes from the time of Ding Lik's son's death and the end of THE BUND II. That's at least ten years since the beginning of THE BUND.

In the first episode of THE BUND III, the casino employee who betrayed Ding Lik and tried to assassinate him said that he had been working at the casino for ten years. Ding Lik did not own his own casino until at least THE BUND II (not counting the nightclub that he shared with Hui Mun Keung early in THE BUND), so that employee could not have worked for Ding Lik until at least four years after Ding Lik first met Hui Mun Keung.

Another few years pass during THE BUND III (at least two Christmases and two birthdays for Yip Chau Ying).

So if you put it all together, the time from the first episode of THE BUND to the last episode of THE BUND III must be at least fifteen years and possibly as many as twenty years.

As for broadcasting, THE BUND was broadcast for the first time in Hong Kong beginning in March, 1980...THE BUND II in August of the same year, and THE BUND III in December of that same year as well.

[addicted2tvb]

Ken - as always, thanks for such a great explanation. How many times have you seen this movie?! You seem to know every last detail! I'm surprised to hear that all three parts were broadcast the same year. I thought at least a few years had passed between PI and PIII. Ray Lui did a pretty good job acting the part of a much-matured man. I really felt sorry for Ding Lik. I get the whole "need to be alone to be at the top" message but at the end, he wasn't at the top anymore. He let his reputation suffer and was forced to leave Shanghai. Doesn't the guy deserve some happiness? As for Gei, I didn't like his character. Even at the end, he seemed selfish. If his girlfriend really didn't show up, how can he blame her? She put up with so much already. I really wanted her and Ding Lik to get together.

[Ken Cheng]

Ken - as always, thanks for such a great explanation. How many times have you seen this movie?! You seem to know every last detail!

Since first watching the series in 1980 when I was eight years old, I must have rewatched it at least a dozen times (most recently this past spring). When I first watched the series as a child, much of its meaning went right over my head. I just felt that the characters were very charismatic and the action was exciting.

As an adult, with a greater appreciation for the art of drama, I began to see how rich and deep this series really was. THE BUND is not your average Asian teledrama; it has a thematic richness and a grace of execution that remain, thirty years later, extraordinary. Most other Asian teledramas look pathetic and childish next to THE BUND.

I'm surprised to hear that all three parts were broadcast the same year. I thought at least a few years had passed between PI and PIII. Ray Lui did a pretty good job acting the part of a much-matured man.

When THE BUND started, Ding Lik was clearly a young man in his early twenties (Hui Mun Keung was only about twenty-five or so, and Ding Lik was at last a year or two younger than Mun-gor). By the time of THE BUND III, Ding Lik is clearly in his forties, so I figure that at least fifteen and possibly even twenty years had gone by.

I really felt sorry for Ding Lik. I get the whole "need to be alone to be at the top" message but at the end, he wasn't at the top anymore. He let his reputation suffer and was forced to leave Shanghai. Doesn't the guy deserve some happiness?

I felt that this sealed the greatness of Ding Lik's character, however. He gave up his position at the top for his friends, for his followers, and for the city of Shanghai that had raised him and given him so much and that he so dearly loved. This was the ultimate testament to Ding Lik's growth as a character. In THE BUND and THE BUND II, Ding Lik was a selfish individual driven by his own self-interest. This selfishness cost him dearly time and again. By the time of THE BUND III, Ding Lik had attained great wisdom (although at great personal cost); he understood that the greatest power of all was the power to sacrifice oneself for things that one believes in. This is something that Hui Mun Keung showed him years ago, but that Ah Lik didn't understand until the time of THE BUND III.

Consider these lines from THE BUND and THE BUND III

"You educated people! I'll never understand you!" - Ding Lik to Hui Mun Keung in THE BUND, when Ding discovered that Hui had betrayed Fung Ging Yiu to save the Ching Woo Martial Arts School's members from being massacred by the Japanese Black Dragon Society.

"All those years ago, Mun-gor's sacrifice was even greater." - Ding Lik to Gei Sin Yung in THE BUND III, when Gei Sin Yung remarked that Ding Lik was sacrificing too much on his behalf.

That line from THE BUND III wasn't heard until the last episode, and it was the *only* time Hui Mun Keung was mentioned in THE BUND III (he seemed to have become a forgotten character in THE BUND III). I thought this was the line that TOTALLY made THE BUND III legit because it tied the younger Ding Lik from THE BUND to the mature Ding Lik of THE BUND III, and also reaffirmed Hui Mun Keung in the overall BUND mythology. Even all those years later, the ghost of "Mun-gor" still haunted Ding Lik, but in a positive way. Ding Lik's maturity was the result of his following the path that Hui Mun Keung had pointed him towards all those years ago...a destination that Hui himself would not reach (because he died too young), but that Ding Lik finally did.

As for Gei, I didn't like his character. Even at the end, he seemed selfish. If his girlfriend really didn't show up, how can he blame her? She put up with so much already.

That's the tragedy of THE BUND III; it's not just that Yip Chau Ying died, but that she died with Gei Sin Yung misunderstanding her a final time. That was sort of the theme of their relationship: they couldn't communicate with each other.

[addicted2tvb]

Ken - a dozen times, eh? No wonder you know this series inside out! I agree that Ding Lik achieved a level of greatness. I still wish he could have achieved happiness (i.e., love) given that he ultimately sacrificed so much for others. The line you quoted from Bund III was very moving. When Ding Lik said it, I felt incredible admiration for him.

[Ken Cheng]

Ken - a dozen times, eh? No wonder you know this series inside out!

It's one of those rare series that's worth revisiting multiple times. Like a great book, it offers something new with each viewing...a concept or demonstration of great artistic execution that you might have missed the last time. Ninety-percent of what TVB produces is pure garbage, but with THE BUND, TVB somehow came up with a diamond. It was just a uniquely inspired moment for TVB, never again to be repeated.

I agree that Ding Lik achieved a level of greatness. I still wish he could have achieved happiness (i.e., love) given that he ultimately sacrificed so much for others.

One of the things I like about THE BUND, however, is that there are no "cop out" happy endings. Tragedy is permitted to play out.

The line you quoted from Bund III was very moving. When Ding Lik said it, I felt incredible admiration for him.

It showed us how far Ding Lik had come since his early days. Had Hui Mun Keung lived, I think he would have been proud to see the man that Ding Lik had become.

[addicted2tvb]

Ken - yeah, I'm tempted to re-watch this already, esp Part I. As for the no "cop out" happy endings, I see your point but I'm a romantic so I hate watching tragic endings! I also hate open endings. I wonder if Ding Lik will even learn that Yip died. Maybe Felix Wong's character will keep it a secret to protect Ding Lik from suffering any further. I find it interesting the parallel between how Mun Gor died and Yip died. Both probably would have lived had their request to leave Shanghai been granted.

[Ken Cheng]

Ken - yeah, I'm tempted to re-watch this already, esp Part I.

You'll almost certainly discover some things you didn't notice in your previous viewing. THE BUND merits multiple viewings because it yields new discoveries each time.

As for the no "cop out" happy endings, I see your point but I'm a romantic so I hate watching tragic endings!

I can personally relate to Ding Lik's situation, so the ending resonated well with me.

I also hate open endings. I wonder if Ding Lik will even learn that Yip died. Maybe Felix Wong's character will keep it a secret to protect Ding Lik from suffering any further.

We never find out, but in the 1983 TVB series THE BOLD ONES, we discover that Ding Lik has moved to Tianjin and retired there. Tam Sing (from THE SHELL GAME series) is still active during THE BOLD ONES and is still hunting down the remainder of Sau Dai Chin's followers.

I find it interesting the parallel between how Mun Gor died and Yip died. Both probably would have lived had their request to leave Shanghai been granted.

Apparently, nobody gets out of the Shanghai underworld life alive...except for Ding Lik. He was the ultimate survivor.

[addicted2tvb]

Who do you think takes over Shanghai after Ding Lik leaves? Re: THE BOLD ONES - worth watching?

You'll almost certainly discover some things you didn't notice in your previous viewing. THE BUND merits multiple viewings because it yields new discoveries each time.



I can personally relate to Ding Lik's situation, so the ending resonated well with me.



We never find out, but in the 1983 TVB series THE BOLD ONES, we discover that Ding Lik has moved to Tianjin and retired there. Tam Sing (from THE SHELL GAME series) is still active during THE BOLD ONES and is still hunting down the remainder of Sau Dai Chin's followers.



Apparently, nobody gets out of the Shanghai underworld life alive...except for Ding Lik. He was the ultimate survivor.

[Ken Cheng]

Who do you think takes over Shanghai after Ding Lik leaves? Re: THE BOLD ONES - worth watching?

Ding Lik left no obvious successor. The two who might have succeeded him, Gei Sin Yung and Yip Chau Ying, were gone. Possibly, after Ding Lik's departure, there was a power vacuum in Shanghai's underworld unlike any other seen during THE BUND saga. When Fung Ging Yiu's reign came to an end, Lip Yan Wong took over briefly before Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik became the two godfathers. After Hui Mun Keung was assassinated, Ding Lik, Dik Wan Tze, and Chang Gwai struggled for supremacy. Having eliminated Dik and Chang, Ding Lik enjoyed a few years as the lone godfather of Shanghai (as Fung Ging Yiu once had) until Lai Jun rose to prominence.

I have a feeling that by the time Ding Lik retires, the age of the Shanghai ganglords was coming to an end anyway. Although the series doesn't mention it, the Japanese occupation of Shanghai should probably have happened not long after Ding Lik's retirement, and after the war came the Communist takeover in 1949. If Ding Lik were still alive in 1949, he likely would have moved his operations to Hong Kong (which is what the remaining real world Shanghai gangsters did in 1949).

I haven't seen THE BOLD ONES except for a few minutes of the first episode, but it hasn't gotten the acclaim of either THE BUND or THE SHELL GAME. However, with Tam Sing appearing in the series and Ding Lik being mentioned on at least one occasion, it is within the continuity of TVB's BUND/SHELL GAME universe. In that sense, THE BOLD ONES represented the end of both THE BUND and SHELL GAME storylines.

You might also remember that Fung Ging Yiu was mentioned in both THE SHELL GAME and THE SHELL GAME II, so clearly, THE BUND series, THE SHELL GAME series, and THE BOLD ONES all occur within the same universe (TVB 1920s/1930s gangland).

[addicted2tvb]

I need to re-watch shell game. I don't remember the reference.

[Ken Cheng]

I need to re-watch shell game. I don't remember the reference.

The first was in Episode 4 of THE SHELL GAME when Hung Biu first discussed with his son Hung Pau the idea of hiring Cheuk 1 Fu from Shanghai to help them get rid of Lo 4 Hoi. Hung Biu told Hung Pau a story about Cheuk 1 Fu's adventures in Shanghai, and how Cheuk commanded wide respect in both legitimate and underworld society. Hung Pau then remarked offhandedly, "If that's true, then Cheuk 1 Fu must be even wealthier than Fung Ging Yiu."

The second was in Episode 2 or 3 (not sure which) of THE SHELL GAME II, in which Ah Lung b.s.'ed to Fok See Ling that in Shanghai, even Fung Ging Yiu had to call him "dai gor."

These remarks suggest that THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II both predate THE BUND series in continuity, although it's possible that THE SHELL GAME II and THE BUND occur simultaneously.

Of course, one humorous thought is that Ah Lung and Hui Mun Keung look identical to each other (both were played by Chow Yun Fat) and both might have been running around Shanghai at the same time.

[wkeej]

Ding Lik finally manages to defeat and kill Dik Wan Tze, but the price is high.

Sorry, I am too lazy to read all the pages. May I know:
1. Why the price is high?
2. What happened to Ding Lik in the end?

[Ken Cheng]

Sorry, I am too lazy to read all the pages. May I know:
1. Why the price is high?

Ding Lik blew his last chance with Chu Yin Yin. Up until that point, he still had a chance with her, but with Dik's death, she hated his guts.

2. What happened to Ding Lik in the end?

Well, that isn't settled until THE BUND III, but at the end of that series, Ding Lik pulls up the stakes in Shanghai and moves his operations to Tianjin. According to the 1983 TVB series THE BOLD ONES, he was still there some years later.

[wkeej]

I have trying to recollect The Bund which I watched more than 20 years ago. Other than asking me to watch it again, may I know:
1. Family backgrd of Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik.
2. How both of them meet? - in the school?
3. Why they go to Shanghai? - which I think the school is in Beijing or Peking at that time.

[Ken Cheng]

I have trying to recollect The Bund which I watched more than 20 years ago. Other than asking me to watch it again, may I know

1. Family backgrd of Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik.

Hui Mun Keung's family background is shrouded in mystery. The series says nothing about his life before his college years (and we are told only bits and parts about his college years). We do learn that he has a younger cousin, Mun Gwok Keung, in THE BUND II, but the cousin isn't mentioned and doesn't show up until several years after Hui Mun Keung dies.

Ding Lik's family background is more transparent. His father, who was a heavy gambler, drinker, and wife-beater, died when Ding Lik was a child. Ding Lik's mother is featured as a regular character in THE BUND and THE BUND II.

2. How both of them meet? - in the school?

Hui Mun Keung is a college grad (Beijing University), but Ding Lik is uneducated and grew up on the streets of Shanghai. They met the night that Hui Mun Keung (newly released from prison) arrived in Shanghai, literally running into each other during a gang fight on the streets. Hui Mun Keung had literally just gotten off the train from Beijing when he met Ding Lik. Seeing that Hui Mun Keung had no place to stay, the gregarious Ding Lik invited HMK to spend the night at the small wooden hut that Ah Lik shared with his mother. That's how their friendship began.

3. Why they go to Shanghai? - which I think the school is in Beijing or Peking at that time.

Ding Lik was born and raised in Shanghai, and never attended school. He was a poor peasant throughout his early life. When Ding Lik met Hui Mun Keung, Ah Lik was a fruit vendor selling pears on the city streets.

Hui Mun Keung was a graduate of Beijing University. He was imprisoned by the authorities in Beijing for being an agitator in the May 4 protests. After three years in prison, a disillusioned Hui Mun Keung decided that he had suffered enough for a futile cause, and went to Shanghai to seek power and fortune.

[wkeej]

Thanks, Ken. Memory is flowing back. If I remember also, there is a Japanese student in Beijing U who become friend of Mun Keung. Later, she also went to Shanghai. Actually, was she visiting Shanghai or working? What happened to her in the end?

[Ken Cheng]

Thanks, Ken. Memory is flowing back. If I remember also, there is a Japanese student in Beijing U who become friend of Mun Keung. Later, she also went to Shanghai. Actually, was she visiting Shanghai or working? What happened to her in the end?

You're referring to Fong Yim Wan, whom Mun Keung was seeking when he first arrived in Shanghai.

Fong Yim Wan was no Japanese. She was (as far as we know) completely a Chinese woman.

Fong Yim Wan and Hui Mun Keung were fellow students and good friends at Beijing University, although the series frequently suggested that Yim Wan had a romantic interest in Mun Keung that he didn't reciprocate. Throughout the series, they remained platonic friends.

Fong Yim Wan arrived in Shanghai years before Hui Mun Keung did. By the time he arrived in Shanghai, she had already become a wealthy and popular socialite in the city. Mun Keung came to Shanghai with the hope that Yim Wan could help him hook up with the wealthy and powerful people of the city. She didn't fail him, introducing him to the cinema boss Lee Mong Kei and getting Mun Keung's career in Shanghai started. She even put out $200 to buy him his first business suit (a debt he promptly repaid upon taking control of the cinema).

After that early appearance in the series, Fong Yim Wan doesn't show up again until much later, after Mun Keung returns from exile in Hong Kong to seek revenge on Fung Ging Yiu. Once again, Yim Wan provides Mun Keung with moral and logistical support. She was a great friend to him.

Fong Yim Wan was killed in the final episode of the series by Lip Yan Wong, the new ganglord with whom Hui Mun Keung had worked to eliminate Fung Ging Yiu.

[Ken Cheng]

Some interesting news for BUND fans.

Chow Yun Fat and Ray Lui will soon reunite on screen!

Unfortunately, they won't be reprising their famous BUND roles as Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik, but it'll still be cool to see the two of them together again for the first time in thirty years.

[elaine lopez]

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