The Bund 《上海灘》

[tweety365]

Has the series been released on dvd? I'm so out of date with these things. Ken, I'm sure you would have the dvds if it has been released

[QF]

I believe that in THE BUND, even the names of the characters are highly meaningful and symbolic. Hui Mun Keung..."Mun" meaning "educated" or "literary" and "Keung" meaning "strong"; these were indeed the character's key attributes (knowledge, wit, and strength). Ding Lik - "lik" being strength (but unlike Hui Mun Keung, no "knowledge" or "literacy"). Fung Ching Ching - "Ching" being "bottle" or "vessel" in this case, which I believe meant that Ching Ching was like an empty vessel at the beginning of THE BUND...naive, innocent, waiting to be filled.

See what I mean? You can't do a deep analysis like this of any other TVB series.

Well...Your analysis are right concerning Hui Man Kueng and Ding Lik but wrong on Fung Cheng Cheng's part.

Chingcheng's name in chinese is "程" and it means "journey" or "distance" not empty vessal. HAHAHA.... Silly Ken.

This remind me of when you tried to translate Wong Yeuk Si's 9 Fa Yuk Lo Yuen and you translated it as 9 Flower MEAT Pill!!!!!

HAHAA...MEAT!!! I just thought it was kind of funny.

Anyways...the pronounciation of "vessal" in chinese in Cantonese is a lower tone than 程程


Just a FYI
QF

[Ken Cheng]

Well...Your analysis are right concerning Hui Man Kueng and Ding Lik but wrong on Fung Cheng Cheng's part.

Chingcheng's name in chinese is "程" and it means "journey" or "distance" not empty vessal. HAHAHA.... Silly Ken.

This remind me of when you tried to translate Wong Yeuk Si's 9 Fa Yuk Lo Yuen and you translated it as 9 Flower MEAT Pill!!!!!

HAHAA...MEAT!!! I just thought it was kind of funny.

Anyways...the pronounciation of "vessal" in chinese in Cantonese is a lower tone than 程程


Just a FYI
QF

Thanks. Ching Ching's name, then, can be interpreted in another way.

Since "Ching" is a matter of distance or journey, we can follow her development as a character...from innocence and naivete to heartbreak and disillusionment. Of all the characters in THE BUND, Ching Ching was the most well traveled. She was raised in Shanghai, attended school in Beijing, traveled to Hong Kong (to look for Hui Mun Keung), and finally to France. Paralleling these physical journeys was her spiritual and emotional journey. She started out completely infatuated with Hui Mun Keung, left him behind to marry Ding Lik, then finally became disenchanted with both of them after they conspired to kill her father.

[Ken Cheng]

Has the series been released on dvd? I'm so out of date with these things. Ken, I'm sure you would have the dvds if it has been released

No, they haven't, and almo89 and I are loudly protesting this fact over at the TVB DVDs thread elsewhere on this forum.

[tweety365]

Have you written to the execs at TVB like what you did with the HSDS dvds? That letter was very umm... interesting . But was glad all the ranting and raving got good results.

[almo89]

No, they haven't, and almo89 and I are loudly protesting this fact over at the TVB DVDs thread elsewhere on this forum.

Yes! We should start a riot soon. About the music, Sir Koo is the man. I think Michael Lai had some really good tunes during his run, but he wasn't quite at the level Sir Koo was.

[Ken Cheng]

Discussing another aspect of THE BUND's magic: the sets, locations, and props.

In 1980, the idea of TVB being able to tape a series on location in the People's Republic of China was a pipe dream. Mao Zedong had been dead for only four years, and the shadow of the Cultural Revolution still loomed over Hong Kong/China relations. Mainland China was regarded by Hong Kong people as a no man's land. Taping THE BUND in Shanghai was simply out of the question.

So TVB needed to be resourceful. For once, they were.

Hong Kong was developed by the British Empire around the same time that other Europeans (most notably the French) developed Shanghai...in the late 19th/early 20th Century. In 1980, much of the urban redevelopment that we see in Hong Kong today had not yet been put into place. Therefore, much of the old city of Hong Kong resembled how it looked in the 1930s...which wasn't that different from how Shanghai looked during the same time period, with an idiosyncratic blend of Western and Chinese architectural motifs.

THE BUND took advantage of old Hong Kong buildings to create an illusion of 1930s Shanghai. There are two scenes that stand out. The first was actually filmed not in Hong Kong, but in Macao. When Hui Mun Keung first arrived in Shanghai in Episode 1 of the series, his friend and former classmate Fong Yim Wan took him to her palatial home. What location did TVB use for this home? A picturesque street of old mansions once occupied by wealthy and powerful Portugese officials and merchants in the days when Portugal ruled Macao. To anyone not intimately familiar with the locales of the real 1930s Shanghai, those old mansions were very plausible stand-ins for Shanghai mansions of that period.

Another architectural site that stood out in THE BUND was the Gothic church located somewhere in Hong Kong. Most likely built in the 1800s, this church was used by THE BUND in numerous scenes: when Hui Mun Keung and Fung Ching Ching met socially for the first time, during Ding Lik and Fung Ching Ching's wedding, and a host of other scenes. The building was built in the right style (Gothic) and looked of the right age to stand in for similar churches that undoubtedly stood in Shanghai during the 1930s.

But I think the best part was the sets TVB built for THE BUND. Some of those sets are as memorable as the actors in creating the atmosphere of the series, particularly Fung Ging Yiu's home and offices. Remember: in the series, Fung Ging Yiu was something of a wannabe European. Although Fung was a Chinese man, he was the wealthiest man in Shanghai and was powerful enough to intimidate even the powerful Frenchmen of the French Concession. Given his heartlessness to his fellow Chinese, Fung Ging Yiu seemed to want to *be* a European. Notice his hairstyle and moustache: more European style (early 20th Century) than Chinese. All of Fung Ging Yiu's high-level assistants (i.e. Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik, etc.) wore Western-style suits (only low-level underlings dressed in more traditional Chinese clothes). The decor of Fung Ging Yiu's mansion and office was a French Rococo style, which was popular in Europe at the turn of the century. Everything was made of marble and light, pastel colored, giving it a noble and elegant sheen...and therein lies another symbolism.

Shanghai in the 1930s was characterized as a place of juxtaposition and hypocrisy. Extravagant wealth coexisted with horrible poverty (compare Fung Ging Yiu's house with the hut that Ding Lik lived in at the beginnng of the series). Shanghai in the 1930s was home to China's financial and cultural elite. On the surface, there was a sheen of civility that lived in homes that were like royal palaces, dressed in fine Western clothes, spoke languages such as English, French, and German, and adopted Western mannerisms. What all of that elegance and opulence masked, however, is an underbelly of exploitation and violence. Hui Mun Keung's old college friend Lo Chou Bak wrote an article in his newspaper entitled "Dark Heaven," an expose of the true hell that existed just beneath Shanghai's glittering surface. Lo was trying to expose the fact that beneath its shining exterior, Shanghai was rotting away through the forces of foreign exploitation (by France, Germany, Britain, America, and Japan) and internal corruption (by immoral or amoral Chinese men such as Fung Ging Yiu who grew rich and powerful by abetting the foreigners in exploiting his fellow Chinese). Writing that article didn't prove Lo's point, but the consequences he suffered (murdered by Fung Ging Yiu's men) did. I really liked the symbolism of how behind all that elegance that Fung Ging Yiu surrounded himself with (judging from the decor of his home and offices, you'd conclude that he was GOD and that his servants were all angels), there was a hellish world of cruelty and violence supported by constant bloodshed.

THE BUND's aura of greatness comes largely due to its atmospheric nature, and the setting and props were important elements in creating that atmosphere.

[tweety365]

I feel like I'm reading a very well written term paper. Kudos to you, Ken. I'd give you an A+ . All very enlightening.

I remember watching this in my pre-teen years and was blown away by how charismatic CYF was. Plus, I thought Angie was just so pretty and classy. The final scene was nothing short of devastating. I kept hoping he would reunite with the elegant heroine. I didn't appreciate the ending then, but after rewatching it years later, I felt it was a fitting conclusion to the jaded lifestyle he led.

[Ken Cheng]

I feel like I'm reading a very well written term paper. Kudos to you, Ken. I'd give you an A+ . All very enlightening.

Thanks...although I did find a few usage errors that I had written in my haste.

I remember watching this in my pre-teen years and was blown away by how charismatic CYF was. Plus, I thought Angie was just so pretty and classy. The final scene was nothing short of devastating. I kept hoping he would reunite with the elegant heroine. I didn't appreciate the ending then, but after rewatching it years later, I felt it was a fitting conclusion to the jaded lifestyle he led.

It also emphasizes, for one final and indelible time, how cruel and pitiless the world is. One of the themes of THE BUND is that the world is a cruel, heartless, and even outright evil place. Bad things happen to good people; evil deeds often go unpunished. Life is fragile, and can be taken away without warning.

THE BUND occurs in a place where faith is unrewarded. It is a cynical, atheistic world. Fung Ching Ching was deeply religious, but her faith did not spare her numerous calamities. Hui Mun Keung was an idealist who once held values such as loyalty and patriotism, but upholding these values invariably cost him dearly. Hui Mun Keung even observed at one point that once destiny points an individual a certain way, the individual has no choice but to follow through to the conclusion, no matter how unwillingly.

[tweety365]

One of the themes of THE BUND is that the world is a cruel, heartless, and even outright evil place. Bad things happen to good people; evil deeds often go unpunished. Life is fragile, and can be taken away without warning.

ain't that the truth. still, my young heart wasn't able to cope with the distressful conclusion and i was quite morose for days.

i wonder if tvb will ever produce a series as grand as this. it's a daunting feat, but not impossible. i mean, with all the resources available today, one would think they would be spewing out more gems than stones.

i am still not impressed with the young cast of actors/actresses at tvb's disposal. for the most part, they lack "onscrean presence". perhaps it is just me and the fact that my expectations are too high.

[almo89]

i wonder if tvb will ever produce a series as grand as this. it's a daunting feat, but not impossible. i mean, with all the resources available today, one would think they would be spewing out more gems than stones.

i am still not impressed with the young cast of actors/actresses at tvb's disposal. for the most part, they lack "onscrean presence". perhaps it is just me and the fact that my expectations are too high.

What made the Bund and a lot of 80s classics good was that they used the limited resources to their fullest. They really had to put on their thinking caps and be creative. Sometimes a large budget and good resources doesn't get you a winning combo. Look at Drive of Life.

I'm not impressed with the new ppl either. On screen presence is really lacking these days. Back then the actors were trained to act. Now it's all about the good looks. Nobody can match the screen presence CYF had.

[Sugar]

Thanks...although I did find a few usage errors that I had written in my haste.



It also emphasizes, for one final and indelible time, how cruel and pitiless the world is. One of the themes of THE BUND is that the world is a cruel, heartless, and even outright evil place. Bad things happen to good people; evil deeds often go unpunished. Life is fragile, and can be taken away without warning.

THE BUND occurs in a place where faith is unrewarded. It is a cynical, atheistic world. Fung Ching Ching was deeply religious, but her faith did not spare her numerous calamities. Hui Mun Keung was an idealist who once held values such as loyalty and patriotism, but upholding these values invariably cost him dearly. Hui Mun Keung even observed at one point that once destiny points an individual a certain way, the individual has no choice but to follow through to the conclusion, no matter how unwillingly.

I personally thought the ending was very fitting. I don't understand why TVB don't make such endings anymore... Everything is just fruity and anime-like that I find the series almost shallow.

[Ken Cheng]

I personally thought the ending was very fitting. I don't understand why TVB don't make such endings anymore... Everything is just fruity and anime-like that I find the series almost shallow.

Probably because the current generation of TVB writers was raised on crappy anime series.

The generation of TVB writers that wrote THE BUND was raised on classic Hollywood films of the 1930s-1970s, and some were even trained in classical drama. Big difference in terms of class.

[tweety365]

Does this mean we are being left behind in the dust of the younger generation? I hate to consider myself as being "old and over the hill". Oh, how times have changed. Apparently since good looks can still sell, quality is taking a back door.

Watching CYF in The Bund, I thought he was so totally cool. He didn’t even need to speak. Just standing around and charm practically leaked out of him. I don't think one can train for that.

[Ken Cheng]

Does this mean we are being left behind in the dust of the younger generation? I hate to consider myself as being "old and over the hill".

It's not so bad: age confers a certain amount of class. You can't be a young buck and have the privilege of telling off those "darn whippersnapper kids and their newfangled ways!"

Watching CYF in The Bund, I thought he was so totally cool. He didn’t even need to speak. Just standing around and charm practically leaked out of him. I don't think one can train for that.

A drama professor I once met said that on stage, actors act with their voices (because facial features can't be seen clearly from the upper balcony) while film and television actors act with their eyes. Chow Yun Fat did it with his eyes, his facial expressions, and his body language. All three were brilliantly on display in THE BUND. If you look at Huang Xiao Ming's performance as Hui Mun Keung in China's 2006 version NEW SHANGHAI BUND, you can tell that Huang studied Chow Yun Fat's portrayal very carefully and tried to capture many of the idiosyncrasies of Chow's version of Hui Mun Keung (something that Leslie Cheung and Sunny Chan utterly failed to do in the 1990s, I might add).

[tweety365]

I suppose imitation is the greatest form of flattery. To study and learn from the CYF is certainly not easy. Now that you mentioned Leslie, I do remember watching the movie version of The Bund. I have to say I was shocked when I realized he was taking the role of Hui Mun Keung. As great of an actor as Leslie was, he really failed to capture the image of a “Big Brother”. He appeared uncertain and hesitant in many of scenes. I think he would have fitted the role of Ding Lik better. Plus, there was no chemistry between Leslie and Andy. Of course, I do place partial blame on the fact that a movie can’t compare to a long drawn out series. Sunny just looks too young and weak in the role. I could not take him seriously as the mighty Hu Mun Keung.

After the whole ROCH fiasco, I do have hopes that HXM learned his lesson and not take on roles that require him to act like a deranged teenager. I’ve watched him do serious acting before and he does a pretty good job. Got to admit that he has an intriguing screen presence, just as long as he does not overact, then things should fall into place.

[Sugar]

CYF was completely charismatic and handsome in the series. I especially love the scene near the end where he asked for one last chance for Ching Ching...


*sigh*.. u don't see much of that from him anymore.

[almo89]

Watching CYF in The Bund, I thought he was so totally cool. He didn’t even need to speak. Just standing around and charm practically leaked out of him. I don't think one can train for that.

I thought everytimr CYF said Ding Liks name, he sounded so cool. He go "Lik" in very soft tone. Sometimes you can barely hear him. He was so damn cool hahah.

The only reason Sunny Chan got the role was because ppl back then said he looks like CYF. Bad decision by TVB to use that reason to cast him.

[Ken Cheng]

I suppose imitation is the greatest form of flattery. To study and learn from the CYF is certainly not easy. Now that you mentioned Leslie, I do remember watching the movie version of The Bund. I have to say I was shocked when I realized he was taking the role of Hui Mun Keung. As great of an actor as Leslie was, he really failed to capture the image of a “Big Brother”. He appeared uncertain and hesitant in many of scenes. I think he would have fitted the role of Ding Lik better. Plus, there was no chemistry between Leslie and Andy. Of course, I do place partial blame on the fact that a movie can’t compare to a long drawn out series.

The biggest weakness to the 1996 movie version was the script. The script was utterly horrid and could not even capture the slightest part of THE BUND's essence. Also, the director (Poon Man Kit) mischaracterized Hui Mun Keung and Ding Lik completely. Leslie's Hui Mun Keung was a guy who just seemed to tag along for the ride with Ding Lik, not the born leader of men that Hui Mun Keung (as depicted by Chow Yun Fat) was *supposed* to be. Andy Lau's Ding Lik was decent, but undistinguished; the character was flat and unmemorable. I don't blame either actor because we all know what these two gentlemen are capable of when given a good script and working under a good director, but in this case, neither resource was available to the two otherwise stalwart actors.

Perhaps if original BUND director Chiu Jen Keung had directed the movie, it would have been a different story.

Sunny just looks too young and weak in the role. I could not take him seriously as the mighty Hu Mun Keung.

Sunny was simply overwhelmed by the role. He's not a bad actor per se, but Hui Mun Keung was just too difficult a role for him to handle (it's an incredible burden because any actor taking on this role has the legacy of Chow Yun Fat at the height of his acting prowess to contend with). He looked like a high school student trying to act the role of Hui Mun Keung in a school drama production version of THE BUND. It was a disaster.

Making matters even worse was the fact that the actor cast as Ding Lik was taller than Sunny. Ding Lik can NEVER, NEVER be taller than Hui Mun Keung! Part of the symbolism in their respective status depends on the physical stature of the two men. Hui Mun Keung is always the dai gor in this partnership (something the Leslie/Andy movie forgot as well, even though there was no height issue there), and that must come through at all levels or things get ridiculous: it'd be like Robin being taller and bigger than Batman.

After the whole ROCH fiasco, I do have hopes that HXM learned his lesson and not take on roles that require him to act like a deranged teenager. I’ve watched him do serious acting before and he does a pretty good job. Got to admit that he has an intriguing screen presence, just as long as he does not overact, then things should fall into place.

I haven't seen Huang in ROCH (and based on that description, I probably don't want to), but he was pretty damn good as Hui Mun Keung in NEW SHANGHAI BUND. Huang won't replace Chow Yun Fat as the iconic Hui Mun Keung, but he did a very good job...got it about 80% right, which is not bad at all considering how difficult this role is.

[Ken Cheng]

I thought everytimr CYF said Ding Liks name, he sounded so cool. He go "Lik" in very soft tone. Sometimes you can barely hear him. He was so damn cool hahah.

That's what charisma is all about...a quiet authority that permeates the entire room through the force of sheer presence. A loud voice isn't necessary; just being there conveys that aura of authority.

Chow Yun Fat really was The Man when he was on THE BUND. Why doesn't he bring that level of charisma and skill to his work today, I wonder?