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Thread: Memoirs Of A Geisha Casting

  1. #21

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    Originally posted by beansprouts
    I said that Zhang Ziyi LOOKED more like a spoiled brat, not she IS a spoiled brat.
    What you said was "[Zhang Ziyi] look more like a spoiled brat than a geisha who is graceful and skilled at all sorts of ancient jap culture. " Your intentionally insulting comment clearly suggests you think Zhang Ziyi doesn't look "graceful" or "cultured." Rather than these good things, according to your own words and the context in which they were used, you think she looks more like a "spoiled brat." Not quite a compliment.

    If that's your opinion, then why do you no longer own up to it? You're words and the context in which they were used are quite clear. Just the same, imo you're a "hater," exactly like I first said. I stand by my opinion. And why should you even care what I think of you anyway?



    Originally posted by beansprouts
    And Southern Crane, dont you think you are being too defensive about Zhang Ziyi?
    Just like you're voicing your opinion that you think Zhang Ziyi looks more like a "spoiled brat," I'm voicing my own opinion that I think she looks more "graceful" or "cultured," like a geisha.



    Originally posted by beansprouts
    How well Zhang Ziyi can pull off Memoirs is left to be seen when the show actually comes out.
    EXACTLY!!!

    Maybe now you're realizing you've spoken too soon and that it's just possible Zhang Ziyi could "look more like a geisha who is graceful and skilled at all sorts of ancient jap culture than a spoiled brat. "



    Originally posted by beansprouts
    And then maybe we can have another nasty name calling session here to sort out whether she was convincing as a geisha or not.
    If you find me addressing you as a "hater" nasty name calling, then you have far more issues to sort out than whether or not Zhang Ziyi is convincing as a geisha.



    Originally posted by beansprouts
    I would be quite interested to see who gets the male characters though. Almost all the male characters in the book are ugly looking and had some major flaw one way or another (Burns scar, no hand, extremely ugly blah blah blah). It would be way off the mark if they cast some famous chinese actor like Chow Yun Fatt or Jet Li.

    The earlier part of the story depict Sayuri (the main character) as a child.... I wonder where are they going to find a miniature version of Zhang Ziyi. I always hated it when the child version of the character differs very much from the adult version.

    Oh well, if they are going to cast a star studded main cast with the likes of Zhang, Gong and Yeoh, they probably wont have enough money left for casting famous people as supporting roles. I hope they dont shortchange us on the scenery and the costumes though.
    I admittedly have not yet read the book, but soon will. So, I'm not familiar with the characters that could be written into the screenplay. As I've said myself before, and objectively speaking, I'd much rather a Japanese cast, including the female leads. Though I'm resigned to the fact that the female leads will not be Japanese, at the very least, I'm hopeful the male leads and other supporting cast members will be.

    I'm just voicing my opinion that, other than not really looking Japanese, I think the chosen Chinese actresses can really pull of their roles convincingly. I've seen enough of all three to form an informed opinion that it's very much possible.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Michelle Yeoh? Please.

    EDIT: Will make this a much longer post because I feel high.

    Firstly, Michelle Yeoh is not that large a box-office draw as most people think she is, internationally... and EVEN domestically (when domestically, I meant HK, not Malaysia).

    In truth, it had never been proven much that she could carry a movie by HERSELF. Really.

    Yes, she is internationally known, because she got to appear in movies like Tomorrow Never Dies, and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. So yes, her exposure is worldwide. But the majority of the people watched the former because it was a BOND film (and it is important to note that even WITHOUT Michelle, the Bond movies can easily make as much or even MORE money... like World is Not Enough and Die Another Day)

    Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? It's an ensemble movie. And people watched the movie for the movie itself, not because of Michelle Yeoh.

    Argue with me about Michelle being a box-office draw? My simple answer is... two movies: The Touch and Silver Hawk.

    Not all movies rely on big-name casts, not all movies rely on the strength of stars. Many rely on concepts, gimmicks, and other factors that I can spend POSTS to illustrate on. Zhang ZiYi is internationally known, but she's not the type who can carry movies by herself either (though by now, her status has surpasses Michelle's... easily). You don't see your typical American moviegoer saying 'WHOOOHOOO! THIS IS THE NEW ZHANG ZIYI MOVIE!! I WILL WATCH IT IMMEDIATELY!!", many apologies, but this sort of rare power comes only from those actors and actresses who are being paid 15 to 20 million dollars (Jim Carrey, Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts... it is arguable whether Cameron Diaz and Halle Berry could since the past few movies headlined by them all flopped disastrously). That rare elite club.

    In truth, more people care about the experience they will get from this, not who is in the movie, especially for a possible arthouse fare like this. Typical moviegoers don't go 'WHOOOO! ZHANG ZI YI! I WILL FLOCK TO THE CINEMAS IMMEDIATELY!', they will probably go 'hmm... I have read the book, I'll check this out' (this will be the most common case) or 'I might want to see a movie regarding the geisha (or Japanese?) culture'.
    Last edited by Eliar Swiftfire; 08-04-04 at 10:36 AM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Now that I've done speaking about Michelle as a box-office draw, I will now talk about Michelle the actress.

    Seriously, she had never struck me as a SUBLIME actress. And no, this doesn't come from some dumbass poster who had only seen one or two movies from her and makes some half-arsed judgement about her, this comes from a person who had been seeing her since her 80s 'Action Queen of HK' days to this very day.

    For me, I always feel I can easily name lots of actresses who are more versatile and natural than she is. When I saw her trying to act in a true drama, she was totally... off (that stuntwoman movie... All About Ah Gam or something). Fine, that was her first dramatic foray, so it's okay. She was decent in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, yes, decent, not SPECTACULARLY OSCAR-DESERVING!!!!!!! (with a few more exclamation marks), she was decent in Soong Sisters (in a role where she's just supposed to be the wise sister figure, not much too emote, not much complex emotions etc).

    For me, she can only work well if she has a great director like Ang Lee working with her. She's not the type who can elevate a crap material into something spectacular solely with her acting.
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  4. #24

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    WOAH!!! A critical post of another Geisha leading actress other than Zhang Ziyi?! And from a fellow Malaysian?!

    I need a moment to recover from the shock and regain my composure. . . .

    At least you're fair, eliar. Much kudos...

    BUT, in Michelle's defense , considering "Michelle Yeoh is not that large a box-office draw as most people think she is, internationally," is there another Chinese or Japanese actress who is better known in international cinema and could potentially be an even bigger box office draw internationally?



    Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire
    In truth, more people care about the experience they will get from this, not who is in the movie, especially for a possible arthouse fare like this. Typical moviegoers don't go 'WHOOOO! ZHANG ZI YI! I WILL FLOCK TO THE CINEMAS IMMEDIATELY!', they will probably go 'hmm... I have read the book, I'll check this out' (this will be the most common case) or 'I might want to see a movie regarding the geisha (or Japanese?) culture'.
    Very true... Just because "So-and-so" will be in a film alone won't get people flocking to the cinema. But again, if I were to be starring in I, Robot, instead of Will Smith, assuming my performance would've been better , who then would be flocking to see it? I'm just saying that the film's star(s) is a factor in its box office success.



    Sorry, folks. Don't mean to "hijack" the topic. I'm just very thrilled about it, that's all. Unless someone addresses me or what I've said, I'll just shut up.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of Zhang Zi Yi either, but I'm leaving that out of this post.

    Back to our dearest Dato, I think it's fair enough to say that she's NOT a box-office draw. Seriously. She has exposure, yeah, people remember her from James Bond (and how long ago was that? 6 years?) and CTHD. In fact, I DARE say that til now, there ain't any Japanese or Chinese box-office draws in the US.

    For other places... like Hong Kong? Heck, Michelle Yeoh (The Touch and Silver Hawk.... yay) and Zhang Zi Yi (Purple Butterfly... fly... fly...) ain't box-office draws either. On the contrary, the true actresses who really draw in the box-office right now are Sammi Cheng (woman haven't had a movie that made less than 10 million for almost a decade), Miriam Cheung (had an impressive string of hits herself too for the past few years) and I hate to admit it... but the FREAKING Twins.

    Being internationally KNOWN and being a box-office draw are completely different. (That's why I repeatedly said to James Ko in older threads not to expect Catwoman to be a massive hit like he thought it would, Halle Berry may be an Oscar Winner, but she has yet to prove that she's much of a box-office draw.... of course, the movie itself sucked, so...)

    As for 'I, Robot', the movie wasn't only marketed as a sci-fi flick, it was also marketed as a Will Smith star vehicle (cos' the dude had proven to do well in summer movies), so it's a different thing.

    Put yourself in movies like... The Notebook (sleeper hit of the summer), Garden State (massive indie hit of the week with positive word-of-mouth), assuming your performances were as good, or even better than the current actors/actresses, then yeah, it won't affect the B.O.. Sames goes with Blair Witch Project, if it was out back then, and you were the one weeping and had snot coming out of your nose instead of Heather, it'll still be a hit.

    Not all movies are star vehicles. I'll be damned if anyone would want to market Memoirs of Geisha as a star vehicle (even if they do, it's not the type of movie that can get a wide opening in US). They can put Koyuki (Last Samurai chick) in it instead of Zhang Zi Yi, and besides the China market, I doubt it would make much difference. For this sort of movie, people don't really care about the star. Hell, put aside Koyuki, maybe put in someone even less well-known. Same thing.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Okay, you know what? I seriously think all these casting rumours are made up by the Chinese media.

    Went to check Yahoo Movies, and it seem that the only confirmation about this movie is that Rob Marshall's directing it. Hmph, if in the end, it's some unknown Japanese actress acting, I'll be the one laughing the loudest. Just like how I always laugh when good o' Michelle always tell the Chinese press that she's gonna appear in the next Bond film.
    Last edited by Eliar Swiftfire; 08-04-04 at 01:26 PM.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Sugar's Avatar
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    i don't think it is Zhang Zi Zi, cause in this viet newspaper, i read that the cast would be some jap girl playing the geisha
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  8. #28
    Senior Member beansprouts's Avatar
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    We have drifted from the topic... perhaps another thread should be set up to discuss the how international stars have more ability to draw the crowds the crowds than a bunch of unknowns eh??

    As for the casting of Zhang, Yeoh or some jap girl orwhoever the newspaper/magazines are saying, we just have to wait and see.

    For those who have not read the book, Memoirs, I highly recommend it. It is very enjoyable and provides an insight into the lives of the geishas... how accurate it is I cannot say. Anyway, for those who have read it, I found the ending kinda abrupt.

    Oh, I am digressing too.....

    I am not too hopeful about having japanese actors as supporting cast. The movie will probably be in English. How many good japanese actors are there who can actually speak english?? There are quite a number of male characters in the book itself, almost all ugly, haha. I am quite looking forward to see how the director depicts them.
    Last edited by beansprouts; 08-04-04 at 10:04 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member beansprouts's Avatar
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    I just remember, other than the main character, there are 2 other prominent geishas in the book. One is astoundingly beautiful while the other one is astoundingly perfect. Both played important roles in Sayuri, the main character's life, one torture her, the other one.... well kinda-in-a-way help her.

    Hee, I think the producers of Memoirs will have hell of a time finding the right person to act in the show. And i think the actresses cast as geishas would need to learn some of the arts and mannerisms of geishas. True blue geishas required years of practice and lessons to master their art.... the actresses will probably have the lessons force down their throat in 3 mths.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Originally posted by beansprouts
    I just remember, other than the main character, there are 2 other prominent geishas in the book. One is astoundingly beautiful while the other one is astoundingly perfect. Both played important roles in Sayuri, the main character's life, one torture her, the other one.... well kinda-in-a-way help her.
    Yeah, the China website said that Michelle's playing the one who helps Zhang, while Gong Li's the torturing one. But once again, I just feel that I don't really trust the Chinese media too much regarding the 'casting'. I mean, why the hell ain't any of the Hollywood news sites I surf all the time mention anything?
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  11. #31
    Senior Member rourou's Avatar
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    but i still cannot think of Michelle being a Geisha..... more of an Action Queen...... just doesn't feel right, i'm talking about outlook not acting skill...

    Gong Li on the other hand will be just right... the type of ancient oriental beauty...

    Zhang Zi Yi, yes she is pretty but she looks more of the defiant instead of the demure type

    Maggie... beautiful and can act but never seen her in such role (or have i??)

    Xiao Xue.... are you refering to Michelle Saram or is there another actress named Xiao Xue?? if it's Michelle Saram oh please she's pretty and all but acting justz not her thing

    Shu Qi.... maybe quite good at it... me seen her in many different roles. she was in transporter, even tough her english is not good but it was really more than understandable in transporter... quite good actually tough it was not chart topping

  12. #32
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rourou

    Xiao Xue.... are you refering to Michelle Saram or is there another actress named Xiao Xue?? if it's Michelle Saram oh please she's pretty and all but acting justz not her thing
    No, they are talking about Koyuki from Last Samurai.

    Michelle Saram's acting is so atrocious that I sometimes want to hit her with a stick.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member rourou's Avatar
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    ooo i see i see soli i didn't watch the last samurai and yes... Koyuki does look lovely...... but if it's gonna be a Japanese actress i'll prefer the other like Nanako etc etc.... prettier and i really like them

  14. #34
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    Michelle Saram's acting is so atrocious that I sometimes want to hit her with a stick.

    Yes her acting skills are way below the mark, it always amazes me how she manages to clinch roles in major production.

    There is another geisha, Pumpkin, in Memoirs who played quite a prominent role in the main character's life. I wonder how come there is no mention of her in any of the webby. Or maybe they have decided to write her out of the movie eh??

    Majority of the book focuses on when the main character is in her early teens, where she was tortured by the older geisha and how she learn her arts. I dont think any of the actresses that are mentioned here can pass off as a teenager.... then again I dont think the producers really care...

  15. #35
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Eeeeeyeeeer! Nanako! Never liked her. Besides, she's old. Haha.

    Nah, I think Hollywood will effectively shut the Chinese media up by really casting a young Japanese actress in the end. They can't be that dumb.
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  16. #36
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    I don't really care about whether Chinese, Japanese, or Korean actresses are used. It doesn't make much of a difference to me. I just thought Koyuki aka Xiao Xue would make a good Sayuri. She showed she could play a demure character in Last Samurai, and she has the looks too.

    Gong Li would be good too.

    I agree with the whole Michelle Yeoh thing. I can't see her as a geisha either! lol...

  17. #37

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    Zhang Ziyi recently finished shooting Operetta Tanukigoten, a Japanese produced period piece and romantic musical set in Medievel Japan in which she'll speak Mandarin, Japanese, Portuguese and Latin!

    The following picture of her in Japanese costume was just released...

    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://image2.sina.com.cn/ent/m/c/2004-08-10/U738P28T3D469491F329DT20040810182101.jpg')


    I think Zhang Ziyi (Michelle Yeoh and Gong Li, too!), as a geisha, can and will look quite "graceful and skilled at all sorts of ancient jap culture. "
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  18. #38
    Senior Member Eliar Swiftfire's Avatar
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    Speaking multiple languages is one thing, speaking them well is another. I remember hearing many Japanese friends snickering and laughing when Uma spoke Japanese in Kill Bill Vol 1
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Floo..'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire

    Not all movies are star vehicles. I'll be damned if anyone would want to market Memoirs of Geisha as a star vehicle (even if they do, it's not the type of movie that can get a wide opening in US). They can put Koyuki (Last Samurai chick) in it instead of Zhang Zi Yi, and besides the China market, I doubt it would make much difference. For this sort of movie, people don't really care about the star. Hell, put aside Koyuki, maybe put in someone even less well-known. Same thing.
    Swifty, so well put
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  20. #40

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    Yeah, maybe well put. But true?

    Seems the film's own producers, more experienced with such matters, think otherwise...
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