NBA Discussion

[Long]

Originally posted by spooks
Cavs offered him a 1 year deal at the MLE. Hope he takes it, Cavs can offer him a nice deal next year and he's a really nice piece to have around Lebron too.

For Boozer's sake I hope he accepts. But he has already crossed the line. Cavs won't "trust" him too much in the short-term. Provided Boozer plays really well next season for Cavs and leads them to the play-offs along with James, and has strong play-offs. All will be forgotten and there will be a "kiss and make up" between Gund and Boozer. He'll get his large contract extension and all is fogiven, everyone lives happily ever after

BUT: If Boozer plays poorly and has a slump (whether through injury or form), and Cavs miss the play-offs yet again.... Look out.... Fans would be mad... GM and owner would be made after this saga. Also he's stocks would drop and Cavs owner Gund would probably say, "Well Carlos, thanks mate. But goodbye!". See ya later mate. See if you can geta deal elsewhere.

The risk of taking a 1 year deal now with the Cavs.

[ROI]

What I don't approve of is that the Cavs make it sound like they were doing Boozer a favor out of the goodness of their hearts. The truth was they were also doing themselves a favor since Boozer would have played for under market value if he had taken the Cavs contract. They tried to use the fact that Boozer would be playing for peanuts this year to pressure Boozer into signing a long term deal. If they really had wanted "to do right" by Boozer, they should have offered only the one year deal in the first place just to show good faith and then paid whatever the market determined to be Boozer's value next year.

[Long]

Well it's getting ugly after comments made by Carlos Boozer:

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/plaind...1156312792.xml

Comments:

1. As "expected" Carlos Boozer has fallen for a sucker punch both from Cleveland and SFX. He comes out looking the worse after his comments.

2. It's certain there was an illegal deal in place and that Carlos Boozer must have given the big to Paxson and Gund. Despite his comments, he has failed to properly explain why the Cavs, who want to keep him by any means prior to this saga, would not pick up an option. It's a no brainer. It's like saying Paxson and Gund are fools. And by now means are they fools. So its certain that something dodgy happened. No use in denying it.

3. He is trying to rebutt claims that he is going to the Jazz for money, but instead is going to the Jazz to be an ALL-STAR. Carlos, ARE YOU KIDDING ME to say that he thinks he could not become an ALL-STAR through strong play on a team that features only Mr LeBron James, and NOTHING. PLEASE Mr Boozer....... He's pinned and pointed the finger at Paul Silas. Makes people question his character even more. Hell, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, Johnson, and AC Green made the All-Star in the same year once. MONEY.... MONEY.... MONEY.... No doubt about it (and I don't blame him).

4. He has let SFX and his "dodgy" agent themselves out of trouble, out of the spot light, and out of the media scrutiny.

Calros Boooooooooooooooooooooozer, you need to be

Having said all that I think Paxson and Gund should also take some "heat" for coming up with a dodgy deal in the first place. They should have just picked up the option and let Boozer play for "nothing" this year and then let him go into the market. Despite what they claimed, that "would" have been the right thing to do for all parties concerned.

PS - It's the first time that its occured to me that "Boozer" rymes with "Loser".

[- L1n -]

u loser nba is all about money, if it's not why would kobe have a 100 plus million dollar contract It's not like his mj.


anyways if shaq goes to heat the next all star game would be pretty interesting with yao v shaq starting lineup lol.


This is my theory i think shaq wants to leave cos he can't handle playing 2nd to yao at the all star games.lol

[Long]

Originally posted by - L1n -
u loser nba is all about money, if it's not why would kobe have a 100 plus million dollar contract It's not like his mj.

Hey mate, don't start out calling me a loser or anything.

I'm saying Carlos is a loser for the way he handed things, by coming out all guns blazing to deny everything, and only makes himself look worse off as a result.

Of course the NBA is money, and being part of the sports industry once, don't you think I would be in a better position to know? There are plenty of ways to get your "money", stay "out" of the spot light, and "keep" your character in tact, thank you very much.

[ROI]

He's 22. I know I wouldn't have handled it any better at the same age.

Despite his comments, he has failed to properly explain why the Cavs, who want to keep him by any means prior to this saga, would not pick up an option. It's a no brainer. It's like saying Paxson and Gund are fools. And by now means are they fools. So its certain that something dodgy happened. No use in denying it.

He did say that it wasn't him that ask for the option to be dropped, that it was offered by Paxson and Gund. As for the reason, they coud have done it to make Boozer feel indebted to them and add pressure to sign for MLE. Somewhat like in gang movies where they do you a "favor" and then collect in spades.

"I like it here," he said. "My wife and I are very, very happy here, and I want to be with the Cavaliers. Good things are happening.

"Now, it's up to my agent and the Cavs to work things out. I hope they will."

This was what Boozer said to the press. He didn't promise. It was conditional upon him and the Cavs coming to terms on the new deal.

Our actions have been based upon what Carlos told us he wanted. This was also entirely consistent with his public statements in the media July 1," said the statement from general manager Jim Paxson and owner Gordon Gund. "We are both very surprised and very disappointed by what is now being reported

This was the Cavs' statement. I feel that they're underhanded by creating the false impression that Boozer did make a promise.

[Long]

ROI - I agree with you that the Cavs did use "dirty" tactics to try and get Calors Boozer to sign long-term. I don't blame Carlos Boozer for wanting to sign for more money. Taking care of number one is more important. But he's stuffed up in some way and has the Cavs and even SFX pointing fingers at him. He's done nothing to clear himself but only made matters worse off for himself.

The Quote you have given has many meanings:

"Now, it's up to my agent and the Cavs to work things out. I hope they will."

His statement in the media before the saga, is as firm as you can be. Without saying "I have agreed to terms with the Cavs", which he can't say. When it gets down to, its up to "my agent" and the "Cavs", its a pretty done deal. Meaning he has "stepped back" and "stopped shopping". Otherwise he could have said, "I love Cleveland and interested in returning. But we'll see".

Pushing the buck goes like this:

1. Gund and Paxson to Media = No our fault, must be Carlos and Agent

2. Agent to Media = Not my fault, must be Carlos

3. SFX President to Media = Not our fault, must be Carlos

4. Agent to Carlos = Not my fault, was SFX President who asked me to step down, "mate I'm your friend", "I'm there for you".

5. Carlos to Media = Not my fault, Not Agent's fault (he's my friend), It's SFX President's fault for asking Agent to stop representing me, it's ALL Cavs fault, points finger at Paul Silas his coach (ie for thinking that wasn't All-Star calibre).

You see how "sneaky", Carlos's agent has gotten away with this when, "it's up to my AGENT AND CAVS to work it out. I hope they do".

You see how Paul Silas has now been FINGERED by Carlos as the main culprit?? That's what I don't like.

[ROI]

You see how Paul Silas has now been FINGERED by Carlos as the main culprit?? That's what I don't like.

Yeah but he's 22 and under fire from everywhere. His agent, who's suppose to help him with this, abandons him instead. Given the situation, I'm not surprised he blurts out something stupid.

What he needs to do is get an agent who knows how to look out for his best interests and stand by him when things aren't going well. A good agent wouldn't have let him get compromised this way. Nor would a good agent have agreed to that third year team option in the first place.

[Long]

Well, either way, we haven't seen the end of the Carlos Boozer saga yet.

On another matter, it seems as if the Ex-Shaq Laker camp has spoken up loud and clear over LA's handling of the trade and kneeling down and kissing Kobe Bryant's shoes. Robert Horry, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton have been amongst those to express their disgust. There also seems to be a line of FAs willing to take a chance with Shaq and got to Miami for a shot at the title, even if its only for a year.

For those doubting Shaq, I can tell you that a "fire" burns inside of him and he'll do his best to get in shape, play well, and win a Championship before Kobe Bryant does. That's extra motivation for him and he'll dominate the NBA next year. Remember when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had a point to prove, ie that he wasn't finished at 38 years of age, he won the last of his 6 MVPs that year didn't he (if memory serves me coorect)??

Shaq trade to Miami is just hours away from being finalised according to sources.

In my living room I have already retired, Shaq's No 32 for the Orlando Magic. I guess it's now time to take off the Shaq No 34 jersey for the LA Lakers and hang it on the wall besides it.

It's time to buy the Miami Heat's No. 33 (please... please....) and wear it to watch NBA games.

Once the trade for Shaq is completed, I am NO LONGER an LA LAKERS fan, and I will be a MIAMI HEAT fan. The No.1 Kobe Bryant hater on this forum.

[ROI]

Robert Horry, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton have been amongst those to express their disgust

Got a link? am extremely curious as to what kind of dirt they dished out.

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Just log onto the following sites and sign up as a member:

LA Daily
LA Times
San Antonio Express
Riverside Press-Enterprise

Some interesting comments/stories about why Malone and Payton joined up for LA in the first place (most obviously because of Shaq - not Kobe). And about how Malone was not happy about being not consulted. Shaq's wife coming out and blasting Kobe Bryant. How Robert Horry wants to play with Shaq for a ring, and considers Shaq as the man.

[duguxiaojing]

Once the trade for Shaq is completed, I am NO LONGER an LA LAKERS fan, and I will be a MIAMI HEAT fan. The No.1 Kobe Bryant hater on this forum.

Hahahha....i almost feel the same way now i dont know if im a shaq fan or Lakers fan. Kupchuck and Buss shafted shaq i dont believe for one second that i was willing to make shaq the highest paid man junk....he woulda done that in beggining of season. I cant hate on KB that much i gues ill cheer for both.

I dont see how Miami can win a title with their team though. They have a legit starter in eddie jones and a awesome talent in DW but they are thinner then the LA line up after this trade. If they want to compete for title they better boot up their team.

I heard about a possible Horry siging also Rodney Rogers? I dont think too much for horry. Dont know much about RR....

[Long]

Taken from:

Malone Muses as Lakers Wait
By Tim Brown, Times Staff Writer

Meanwhile, Karl Malone was on a couch in Newport Beach, recovering from knee and finger surgeries, conflicted by O'Neal going to Miami, Bryant pondering the rest of his life, the Lakers building, well, what exactly he wasn't sure. He did say he believed Bryant, his neighbor, would take the Lakers' money — more than $130 million over seven years — but did not know for sure and had not spoken to him in a couple of days.

Malone rode a stationary bike with no resistance for 15 minutes this weekend. He revealed he'd also had bone spurs removed from the middle finger of his shooting hand and that the two surgeries were expected to heal at the same time, for training camp, if necessary.

If only his basketball life was so settled, he mused with a soft laugh. He'd given up so much to come to Los Angeles. A year later, the Lakers have changed, O'Neal looks gone, he has never met the new coach and, according to sources, the San Antonio Spurs are calling a lot.

It appears unlikely Malone will return to the Lakers, even if Bryant re-signs with them. When free agency came for Bryant and a trade loomed for O'Neal, Malone pledged not to choose between them. So, he mulls retirement some days, the Spurs on others, and other teams still call, his options growing by the day.

"It's very disheartening," Malone said. "Shaq was without a doubt — and I didn't know Kobe — Shaq was the main reason I came here. Now they traded him. They didn't talk to me about what I thought about it, if I was coming back. I'm very disappointed it would happen like that.

"If I was to come back, I'd look at those guys as my teammates. I'd go to war with them every night. I came here for a particular reason, though. It's been snatched away from me. Not only did [the Lakers] not talk about it with me, the information I got was from TV and newspapers. I mean, not to disrespect Grant and Odom and all those guys, but you're not going to replace Shaq."

[Long]

Taken from:

Payton Exits the Door Too
PE.com

Payton, who'll be 36 July 23, wasn't thrilled with the Laker acquisitions of Lamar Odom, Brian Grant and Caron Butler - the Lakers also got a future first-round draft pick - for O'Neal.

"I mean, what team are they going to put on the floor?" Payton asked.

Malone, who turns 41 on July 24, is an unrestricted free agent. He had surgery on his knee and has said he'll take his time before making a decision about returning.

"Dude (O'Neal) is gone now," Payton said. "That's why I came out here. He left. He did that to us. I really ain't tripping off of that. But it ain't going to be like last year when I can't play basketball. It's going to be a lot different."

Payton chafed under former Lakers coach Phil Jackson's triangle offense. New coach Rudy Tomjanovich runs more of a pick-and-roll offense.

"Rudy is going to be cool," Payton said. "But you don't put us out there on a limb. We don't have a big man no more now. We're (messed) up. Karl, that's my guy, too, and I told him I was going to be here for him.

"I'm trying to be the one to establish (stuff). I signed quick and early for them and we don't know which direction we're going! I'm going to sit back and chill and see what happens."

NBA officials said the trade probably will be completed Wednesday and not at 9:01 PDT tonight, when free agents can begin signing contracts.

Horry following Shaq?

A San Antonio newspaper reported that the Spurs have made repeated contact with Malone to gauge his interest in joining them. One rumor had the Heat interested in Malone.

Former Laker Robert Horry, who played in San Antonio last season, said he has interest in playing for the Heat.

"I want to win a ring and I'd like to hook back up with the big fella and see if we can get that fourth one together," Horry said by phone. "I loved playing with him in LA. I'd love to play with him again."

[ROI]

awww... no dirt.

Thanks for the excerpts. I hate going to web sites where you have to sign up.

[Long]

I like this Article the best from LA Daily. He expressed a lot of the things I've thought and said.

Bill Plaschke:
It's Not the Heat, It's the Stupidity
A Shaqtacular mistake.

Seven feet of stupid.

Three hundred forty pounds of dumb.

This wasn't a trade, this was the ultimate Hack-a-Shaq.

Desperately conceived, poorly executed, and doomed to failure.

The Lakers have dumped Shaquille O'Neal, one of the most dominant players in NBA history, a thundering giant who shouldered the resurgence of the most popular sports team in Los Angeles, a gentle soul who was once a charming source of civic pride.

In five years, when your children wonder how a great franchise became ordinary, the story starts here.

When they wonder when the once-revered Jerry Buss became a punch line, the story starts here.

When they wonder when glitzy Staples Center became an overpriced gym, well, how about right now?

At Saturday's news conference introducing Coach Rudy Tomjanovich, folks were talking about a new chapter in Laker history.

Yeah. Chapter 11.

Bankrupt of the values that led this team to three championships. Blown credit with loyal fans. Unconscionable squandering of their best asset.

Yes, O'Neal drove folks crazy with his lazy attitude toward conditioning and summer work, and undermined the team with his unwillingness to have toe surgery during the summer of 2003.

But he was a three-time Finals MVP with that attitude.

Certainly, O'Neal's dominance was slowly decreasing. This was his worst season yet. Sometimes he moved as slow as a Lawrence Tanter vowel.

But he was still the only player in the league who could radically change a game by merely joining it.

Fans increasingly saw him as whining, arrogant O'Neal.

But players still feared him as Shaq.

And there isn't another one out there.

Of course, we once thought there wasn't another executive out there like Jerry West, either.

The Laker owner has now proven he's bigger than both of them, and hooray for him.

In five years, when your children ask what happened to Shaquille O'Neal, you tell them Jerry Buss thought he was washed up and wanted him gone.

The owner, who has been out of touch with fans since he skipped Chick Hearn's funeral two years ago, has been out to lunch in Italy.

Buss might have talked the insecure O'Neal out of his trade request, or convinced O'Neal and Bryant to stay together, but he wouldn't.

Does the owner look at the stat sheets?

Since the 1996 arrival of both players, in games featuring O'Neal without Bryant, the Lakers were 36-8.

In games featuring Bryant without O'Neal, the Lakers were 55-45.

Get used to those last numbers, a nice little .550 winning percentage, good enough for seventh place in the West last season, about the best the Lakers can hope for now that Bryant is in charge.

Um, Bryant is in charge, right?

He's not going to treat the Lakers like Carlos Boozer treated the Cleveland Cavaliers, is he? He's not going to leave the team after the team has torn up things to make him happy, right?

(Bryant and Boozer have the same agent, a guy named Rob Pelinka.)

And he's not going to go to jail either, right? The Lakers would never have placed their entire future into the hands of a guy whose entire future is in the hands of 12 jurors, correct?

(Bryant's sexual assault trial is scheduled to start Aug. 27).

The best way to understand this trade is to watch the many video clips of O'Neal tumbling out of bounds under the basket. Imagine the Lakers are the cameraman.

The Miami Heat instantly become one of the East favorites, ridding themselves of an eccentric scorer with a drug background, a declining role player, and a former rookie star who was one of the least improved players in the NBA.

The Lakers instantly become second tier, now building around Lamar Odom, Brian Grant and Caron Butler.

They will miss O'Neal in other ways.

During his time here, he was the only Laker who once drove through south Los Angeles on Christmas throwing toys off a truck.

He was the only Laker who paid for a new police car after one was burned in the 2000 celebration.

He was never in trouble, never on trial, never in a scandal other than one involving the childlike notions that sometimes came out of his silly mouth.

And when he offended someone, he always apologized.

In the last eight years, has any other Laker ever apologized for anything?

Fat or not, slow or not, whenever O'Neal took the court, the Lakers had a chance.

Now? Ask the former Eastern Conference champions who allowed O'Neal to leave as a free agent in the summer of 1996, and haven't had a chance since.

In five years, when they ask about the Lakers, you will tell your children about the Orlando Magic.

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Finally, this is the last full article, I'll post as I don't want to get SPCNET in trouble in any way for "copyright". I have quoted the source. It's a treat for people who can't access and log into these News Paper sites. But "once again" the writer expresses the sentiments that I wish to express about the Kobe Bryant situation......

LA Times

Is Kobe Really Worth It?
By Jon Heyman, Newsday

The longer Kobe Bryant's $100-million Tour of Troubled Teams drags on, the more you wonder whether he's worth the effort and expense.

Lakers Owner Jerry Buss already has fired his pseudo son-in-law Phil Jackson, dangled multiple MVP Shaquille O'Neal to despised rivals in trades and made an over-the-top offer that was rejected by Bryant's hand- picked coach, Mike Krzyzewski, who's never coached an NBA game. Buss promised Bryant everything, including the maximum allowable $130-million contract. Yet, it still isn't enough. Not yet, anyway.

Bryant continues to treat the Lakers like they're the ones on trial when they've done nothing but show him love. Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak, no doubt feeling the pain of unrequited amour, has spoken privately of sleepless nights.

Bryant didn't learn one thing about loyalty even after he got caught cheating. He hosted Cablevision czar James Dolan, top exec Steve Mills and Knicks president Isiah Thomas on Wednesday night in Orange County, hours after meeting with the bigwigs of the Denver Nuggets, a team whose advantage for Bryant would be convenience should he ever become a candidate for Colorado's work-release program.

San Antonio is another reported suitor, and Clippers Owner Donald Sterling is running around L.A. flashing wads of cash, the ill-gotten gains of an organization only out to make money. If Bryant gets what he deserves, he joins the Clippers. Bryant has the ego telling him he can win, one-on-five, and if he takes Sterling's loot, he'll have the chance to prove it.

Bryant obviously doesn't get it. Doesn't get that he owes the Lakers big-time for standing by him through his tribulations and his upcoming trial for felony sexual assault. Doesn't get that he should finally just take their $130-million offer that's been on the table for more than a year, and say, "Thank you very much, Mr. Buss." Or even, "Thanks, Dad," considering Buss has said Bryant is "like a son."

For engineering this stall game, Bryant should be sent to his room. And if he's holding out only to ensure O'Neal's exit, he should have his car keys taken away, too.

The sad thing is, the Lakers probably would have upped the $130-million offer by now if the NBA allowed it. But it's already $30 mil more than he can get anywhere else. As Lakers spokesman John Black said this week, "We've made it crystal clear we want to re-sign him."

Bryant apparently prefers a long courtship. When it comes to employers, anyway.

Though he is fantastically talented, it certainly was no given that the Lakers would clear everyone out for him. That they'd dump nine-time champion Jackson, the boyfriend of Buss' daughter/Lakers exec Jeannie Buss (nepotism isn't what it's cracked up to be), and try to dump O'Neal, the one most responsible for the three rings in the three-ring circus that's a dynasty of dysfunction.

The Lakers have shopped Shaq to Dallas, Sacramento and others, and judging by Bryant's overt involvement in the coaching situation, it's a wonder Bryant isn't working overtime on this one. As far as we know, anyway. If Bryant's annoyed the Lakers haven't traded Shaq the moment his fingers snapped, well, it takes time. They're looking for "two All-Stars," plus a third player, according to competitors, a reasonable request for a potential franchise alterer such as Shaq.

It's understandable the Lakers would favor Bryant in that he's six years younger than Shaq, fits better into their Showtime scheme, works like a fiend and has healthy feet. But now that they have, shouldn't Bryant repay them with a quick answer? This idea that he needs to go through "the process" is insulting to the Lakers, and likely a massive time waster for the panting suitors. With Kupchak having ruled out a sign-and-trade deal, there's practically no chance Thomas and Co. will return from L.A. with anything more than smog in their lungs.

The idea's been advanced that the Knicks, prohibited from offering above the midlevel exception to this all-time talent, may benefit by Nike raising their $40-million deal with Bryant by 50 percent or more if he goes to New York. That sounds nuts. The Knicks can dream of having their Phil Knight in shining armor, but this is no time for reputable companies to up payments to Bryant.

Hardly anyone seems to think Bryant will be convicted, but what if he is? What if Bryant's strutting around cell block E in those Nikes?

While Bryant's conviction chances appear remote based on what's leaked out, if he's only using the Nuggets to get L.A. to trade Shaq faster and ultimately rejects Denver, Bryant has needlessly risked annoying the jury pool. He already has annoyed the rest of us

[spooks]

and a former rookie star who was one of the least improved players in the NBA.

How can you expect someone to improve when he's spending most of this time injuried or recovering.

And when he offended someone, he always apologized

Everyone knows this isn't true, I don't know what Shaq this writer has been following.

Now? Ask the former Eastern Conference champions who allowed O'Neal to leave as a free agent in the summer of 1996, and haven't had a chance since

Like it was the Magic's fault Penny went down with an injury. Magic's sharp decline was a combination of Shaq leaving + Penny getting injured. You can't replace 2 franchise players. Team led by a healthy Hardaway would have been contenders even without O'neal.

[Long]

Well the O'Neal trade is official:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

The HEAT just got themselves a new fan. People can add me to the list of LAKER HATER.

[spooks]

I will always be a Laker fan regardless how much they stink. Thanks for the 3 championships Shaq, good luck in Miami.

Who's got the bigger bandwagon next season? Houston or Heat?

We all know Long jumped on the Heat bandwagon. Looks like I'm the only real Laker fan here.