Some interesting *factual* information about wuxia Taoists

[Ken Cheng]

Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung. The Cheun Jen 7 Disciples. Master Cheung 3 Fung of Mo Dong Sect. All prominent names in wuxia fiction, but also major historical figures in Taoism. Here's some historical scoop on each of them:


Wong Chung Yeung:

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general...pg1-4-26-5.asp

The Cheun Jen 7 Disciples:

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general...s/pg1-4-28.asp

Cheung 3 Fung:

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general...s/pg1-4-29.asp

Of particular interest in Wong Chung Yeung's entry is the reference to the "Tomb of the Living Dead".

[rabadi]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
...the "Tomb of the Living Dead".

The House of the Dead?

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by Ken Chg


Cheung 3 Fung:

http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/general...s/pg1-4-29.asp

There are several ZSFs. What is mentioned here is the ZSF (meaning 3 peaks) who was the leader of the Southern Quan Zhen Bai, the Southern
branch which specialized in Daoist sexology, retaining youth via things like suppressing ejaculation, having virgins etc.

Whereas the ZSF (not meaning 3 peaks) who supposedly erected Wu dang was only legendary and until now was not supported by real facts.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by Du Gu seeking a win
Whereas the ZSF (not meaning 3 peaks) who supposedly erected Wu dang was only legendary and until now was not supported by real facts.

Really? I thought in the 1st HSDS edition Z3F meant 3 peaks?

Edit: I of course don't have the book in front of me now, but it just so happens that our fellow SPCNet fellow Kirara is translating the 1st HSDS edition in the Wuxia Translation forum (see thread HSDS 1st Edition (translated into English from the Indonesian translation by BBT/OKT)).

After a few more years, while travelling in the Northern China, he saw three mountain peaks (San Feng) which were so beautiful that he then used the title SanFeng for himself, and later he would be known as Zhang SanFeng.

Also, this is from the translation in http://www.spcnet.tv/jinyong/hsds/hsds02.shtml:

Later when he roamed about, he saw 3 peaks reaching up into the sky. He changed his name to SanFeng and became China's martial arts mysterious master namely, Zhang SanFeng.

I can't remember whether this is from the 1st or 2nd edition.

Edit: I re-read your post and realized that you are talking about the real life, not fictional JY. Sorry, my bad.

[Ken Cheng]

I believe that the Cheung 3 Fung discussed in this article is indeed the basis for Jin Yong's HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE character. The dates are about right, and there are references to Mt. Mo Dong (Wudang).

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by rabadi
Really? I thought in the 1st HSDS edition Z3F meant 3 peaks?

I think Dugu Seeking a Win was talking about real life and the actually ZSF, not the one in the novel.

[rabadi]

Yes, I already realized that, I put it in the last statement of my post above. Sorry for the confusion

Edit: On separate note, in Jet Li's Taichi Master, the words 3F actually means that he was crazy 3 times a day (morning, afternoon, evening). How's that?

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by rabadi
Yes, I already realized that, I put it in the last statement of my post above. Sorry for the confusion

sorry, I feel really bad now for not reading it carefully.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by rabadi

Also, this is from the translation in http://www.spcnet.tv/jinyong/hsds/hsds02.shtml: I can't remember whether this is from the 1st or 2nd edition.

Edit: I re-read your post and realized that you are talking about the real life, not fictional JY. Sorry, my bad.

I haven't checked the 1st edition (Chinese) about this.

But in the Chinese 2nd edition (with the Athena translation you mentioned), this is a strange thing because it's illogical. After telling about the three peaks ZJB said he named himself Zhang San Feng BUT ZSF in that edition wasn't written with the character feng for peak. This wasn't realized by Athena at the time she translated that part, it was found out by one of the readers of her translation.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
I believe that the Cheung 3 Fung discussed in this article is indeed the basis for Jin Yong's HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE character. The dates are about right, and there are references to Mt. Mo Dong (Wudang).

My impression is, what JY did was mixing up the legends of the three ZSF's to create his own fictional ZSF.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by TaiHan
sorry, I feel really bad now for not reading it carefully.

Nah, it's okay. Take it easy.

Originally posted by Du Gu seeking a win
...BUT ZSF in that edition wasn't written with the character feng for peak.

So, what's the meaning of character Feng in that edition?

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by rabadi


So, what's the meaning of character Feng in that edition?

Menu/View/Encoding/Unicode (UTF-8)


豐 - (simplified 丰 ) - feng1 -
[1] abundance, gracefulness
[2] crop; harvest


whereas the character of peak is:

峰 [feng1] /peak/summit/

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Menu/View/Encoding/Unicode (UTF-8)



The ZSF with the meaning 3 peaks (what was meant probably was the peaks of orgasm, not of mountains) was probably the ZSF of the Southern branch of Quan Zhen, see:


http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GE...SM%20AND%20SEX



Whereas the Zhang La-ta (crazy Zhang) was another person according to the Taiwanese Dictionary for Education (I'm still looking for the URL)




http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...ang%20San-feng


Zhang Sanfeng is a semi-mythical Taoist master said variously to date from either the late Song dynasty, Yuan dynasty or Ming dynasty. His name was allegedly 張君寶 before he became a Taoist.

His Taoist name in Traditional Chinese characters is 張三丰, but is usually written as 張三豐. Both are Zhāng sānfēng in pinyin and Chang San-feng in Wade-Giles.

Much of the written material about him is mythical, contradictory, or otherwise suspect. For instance, he is reported to have been born in 960, 1247, and again in 1279. He is described as being seven-feet tall, with the bones of a crane and the posture of a pine tree, having whiskers shape


d like a spear, and being able to cover 1000 li in a day. He is reputed to have worn a straw hat, but one village reports that the hat was actually a cymbal, which only residents of the village (famous for manufacturing cymbals) had permission to sound upon meeting him. Another tradition associated with the name has him an expert with the Chinese straight sword or jian.

Many today consider Zhang Sanfeng, if not to have been a verifiable historical figure, to be a legendary culture hero of sorts, credited as having originated the concepts of Nei Jia; soft, internal martial arts, specifically Tai Ji Quan as a result of a Neo-Confucian syncretism of Chan Buddhist Shaolin Quan with Taoist Tao Yin (ch'i kung) principles. He is also associated in legend with the Taoist monasteries at Wudangshan in Hubei province.

More reputable sources record two Chinese emperors sending missions to Zhang Sanfeng to ask for his advice, although neither mission is reported to have found him.

Owing to his mythical appearance, his name frequently appeared in Chinese novels and films of swordsmen as a master of martial arts.

The legend's name was made widespread (perhaps) in the Western Hemisphere through Jet li's 1992 portrayal of Zhang San Feng and the invention of Tai Ji Quan. This movie was known in China as "太极�_三丰" (Tai4Ji2 Zhang1San1Feng1 - Supreme Ultimate Zhang San Feng), though the foreign release was aptly named The Taichi Master. A heavily edited and dubbed US release exists in which Jet Li and Michelle Yeoh (known best for her work in Crouching Tiger, hidden Dragon) are featured on the box art as being "Twin Warriors."

[rabadi]

Originally posted by Du Gu seeking a win
The ZSF with the meaning 3 peaks (what was meant probably was the peaks of orgasm, not of mountains) was probably the ZSF of the Southern branch of Quan Zhen, see:

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GE...SM%20AND%20SEX

Wow... now that could change the image on Z3F forever