If u r ZWJ who will u choose

[dragonlancer]

what!! of course choose ZhaoMin lar, Jia Jing Wen play ZhaoMin until so well sometimes i almost cry for her cause Wuji dun trust her and make her cry *sob*

[sunnysnow]

Dear Sunnysnow, I did not say ZZR is satan's kid. But It is apparent she is quite selfish, because all her actions points to doing for her own benefit. I hope you will grant me the same courtesy I have granted you, and quit all that accusation. Yes many of us do not agree with you, that does not warrant what you say to guo xiang, to me. All I do is disagree with your opinion, and because it was late, i did not quite arrow out the remaining.

i dont think shes core evil or sweet angel, or changed in the process. i think she is a scheming manipulative smart young lady. put it this way, she can get far in life, however she will be the type that felt "blank and empty" after achieving all the successes.

very intelligent, but not very wise. shes not evil, she is just selfish. in the real world, she is not uncommon, but the bonus she has is, she has an angelic face to charm the crowd, and a glib tongue to pursuade people to stand on her side.

though i still stick to my perceptions of zzr, i throughly respect ur views n if u do nt think that zzr is evil to e core n i said u did im sorry....i think this debate should end right since we already established that we all have different perceptions of zzr, as long as no one attacks my opinions n forces me to agree w theirs im cool w that

[sunnysnow]

the underlying reason why there is a heated debate, counter arguments and differing opinions is because the character of zzr in the novel is susceptible to contrasting interpretations.

the fact is jin yong himself did not explicitly state the true nature of her character. moreover, there are very few, if any at all, of instances where the author reveals her innermost thoughts. all we have to decipher are her actions which i don't have to say, some defend ,others condemn and both camps have valid points.

his only real take on zzr's character are written in his afterthoughts at the novel's conclusion where he declared both zzr and zm to be individuals posessing 'political' capability. that is, one who is able supress his/her emotion or compassion to act decisively and swiftly to achieve one's aim. as such, he considers both quite unlovable.

but i digress, and agree with u that all this is a little off topic.

i throughly agree w u....zzr's character is nt explicitly defined unlike e others who r juz gd or bad or wad...i think her character's e most complex in hsds so its ineviatable that ppl have different opinions n perceptions of her....i guess my view of her right now has to do w gyy's portrayal of zzr....i'll prob change my views if i read e real novel or see other adaptations...sorry to e person who started this thread...im off topic

[Spiritanto]

Hi, I'm new here. I joined here upon watching the show HSDS2003..

I have not read the original version by Jin Yong but based on so many people's description of ZZR in his book, it seems that he has the intention to portray ZZR as a conniving, ambitious, cunning person..

But.. a HUGE BUT! --> HSDS2003's portrayal does not bring out the essence of ZZR. I think Gao Yuanyuan's portrayal of ZZR shows her to be a weak-willed and someone who deserves to be sympathise..

In answering this question, I'm sure most people will choose ZM over ZZR if he/she is viewing from the point of the original text by Jin Yong..

However, when I watch HSDS2003, ZZR makes me shed a tear In this particular version, she deserves to be pitied. As we can see from this show, Gao Yuanyuan's portrayal of ZZR shows her to be gentle, soft-spoken, kind and demure. Later on, in her anxiety to learn JYZJ, she overstepped her limits and went the evil way. This particular version also attempts to explain why she did it. She did it because she wanted her seniors and juniors to be fully convinced of her role as the Head of Ermei. She is a victim of circumstances.

In summary, *IF* I watched this particular version (HSDS2003), I would certainly have chosen ZZR because Gao Yuanyuan's portrayal of her made me feel very very sympathetic towards her..

[Homura]

If I was ZWJ, I will choose to go the gym more often. I really am too skinny, look like a bloody wimp boy.

[HynAvian]

If I was ZWJ, I will choose to go the gym more often. I really am too skinny, look like a bloody wimp boy.

Hey perhaps I can join u too? I need to shed those fats so that I can be charming and more appealing before I make the decision on who to pick

[Guo Xiang]

1) evil evil and devil....e recarnation of satan..manipulative, everything she does is for herself and has a evil motive....even if she saves any1 or does any deed that is considered gd..its still bad cause she's evil........shes a bad bad person

2)gd, sweet, gentle even when she's evil....its nt her fault that she turned evil, she's still an angel

3) she's basically kind inside bt she changed and sinned cause of circumstances and cause of her own discretion...some of her faults r nt entirely hers to blame bt some of it is solely her own wrong doings and she has no one to blame for except herself....at e end, she's nt a devil nor an angle...a complex character n viewed differently by different ppl ------(my view based on hsds03)

Did you just change to number three to shut our mouths up? Because you are clearly quite number two.

btw, i totally agree w u...zzr is very gentle n kind by nature since she was young...but emei sect had bad influence on her especially meijue...emei sect is well known for their prejudice and power crazy characteristics....like wad u said, if zzr did nt enter emei or had meijue as her shifu, i doubt she'll even harm any1....if she had e proper guidance..im sure if i were zwj i would definitly choose her...like wad zzr said in e end "if only zhang sanfeng had kept me in wudang and nt send me to emei i wouldnt have committed those sins"

And read the long post I've replied to you. Most of the time you were saying ZZR did this and that because of blah blah blah. There is no need to change your words now upon learning no one sides your views.

And yes, this is getting really off topic. I apologise to everyone else including the starter of the topic Goh.

[HynAvian]

Cool down Guo Xiang
Wahaha, everyone is entitled to his or her opinions.
Like what I said, I will go to the gym and do some work out first before I choose any of them.

*Hope to join Homura in the gym*

[Spiritanto]

Recalled that upon her freedom from SQS and CYL, ZZR did not immediately return to Ermei to become the head? She truely wanted to be with ZWJ..

She's looking forward to her marriage with ZJW and GuangMing Peak.. its when ZWJ decide to forsake her at the altar and leave with ZM, that her love turned to hatred..

Frankly speaking, girls, put yourselves in her shoes. If your husband-to-be ran away from marriage on your wedding day..would you not hate him? All the more you will, thats because he kept making promises that "I'll love you and take care of you" "Remember you poke me with the Heaven Sword on GuangMing Peak? The deeper you poke, the more love I had for you."

ZWJ sometimes is quite a jerk in that he declares his love and commitment to someone.. and then carries on to commit to another. ZZR must be really disillusioned by his numerous promises and commitments when he decided to leave her on the day of marriage..

ZM isn't an angel either. She injured ZWJ's 6th uncle and demanded that ZWJ repay her with 3 wishes so that he can get the antidote to cure his uncles. Now, one of her WISH is for ZWJ not to marry ZZR on the day of the wedding..

All this events and more happen and ZZR is clearly disappointed and disillusioned..and it is then she decided to return to Ermei to become the head..

Her love for ZWJ turned to hatred and she vowed not to have anything to do with the Ming Sect!

She is really a victim of circumstances..

[sunnysnow]

Did you just change to number three to shut our mouths up? Because you are clearly quite number two.

And read the long post I've replied to you. Most of the time you were saying ZZR did this and that because of blah blah blah. There is no need to change your words now upon learning no one sides your views.

And yes, this is getting really off topic. I apologise to everyone else including the starter of the topic Goh.

ahem ahem.....since when did i stick to no2 option...if i did would i have said that zzr does nt hafta b blamed for hurting zhu er n song qingshu??? i said its no one bt her fault....its u who cant get over e fact that MY opnions conflicts w urs!! read ALL my posts carefully b4 shouting up some unnecessary comments to me yeah girl?? i keep on n on going that zzr is a complex character bt u juz dun seem to get it and still think i view zzr as a perfect ger....if u cant take my opnions or understand it, juz keep quiet yeah??? rather thn say some stuff to me that its totally outta e way....

me changing MY words cause no one sides w me??? HELLO???? did i ask any1 to side w me....i DONT need any1 to side w MY opnions....even if e whole world disagrees w me, i dun give a damn...its MY opnions n i have e right to voice em up...e long reply to u abt zzr is countering ur views of how evil zzr is blah blah blah....so of course it seems like im treating zzr like an angel to YOU cause u dun think she is.....and one more thing if u dun understand my views or get it RIGHT dun go off accusing me of changing my views n wadeva shyte yeah...i stick to MY opnions u stick to YOURS k...story over...i juz dun get y i can respect other ppl's opnions bt some ppl juz wanna force e whole world to think that their opnions r e ones only valid n correct...i feel like im in a communist state manz... and boy am i sick n tired of ppl trying to accuse my views n stuff....can ppl juz b matured n accept that everyone has a right to his or her own views...and i dun wanna quarrel w u anymore guoxiang...its distrupting other ppl....personally i dun have a prob w u or ur views cause i respect em n i counter em cause i disagree w em...your views not YOU...bt seems like u have a prob w nt only MY views but ME...accusing me of changing my views cause no one sides w me...geez i cant stop laughing at this comment cause it feels like a major joke...well im NOT going to reply to anymore of these remarks n if ur still unsatisfied, PM me yeah so others wont get affected...sorry ppl

[sunnysnow]

Recalled that upon her freedom from SQS and CYL, ZZR did not immediately return to Ermei to become the head? She truely wanted to be with ZWJ..

She's looking forward to her marriage with ZJW and GuangMing Peak.. its when ZWJ decide to forsake her at the altar and leave with ZM, that her love turned to hatred..

Frankly speaking, girls, put yourselves in her shoes. If your husband-to-be ran away from marriage on your wedding day..would you not hate him? All the more you will, thats because he kept making promises that "I'll love you and take care of you" "Remember you poke me with the Heaven Sword on GuangMing Peak? The deeper you poke, the more love I had for you."

ZWJ sometimes is quite a jerk in that he declares his love and commitment to someone.. and then carries on to commit to another. ZZR must be really disillusioned by his numerous promises and commitments when he decided to leave her on the day of marriage..

ZM isn't an angel either. She injured ZWJ's 6th uncle and demanded that ZWJ repay her with 3 wishes so that he can get the antidote to cure his uncles. Now, one of her WISH is for ZWJ not to marry ZZR on the day of the wedding..

All this events and more happen and ZZR is clearly disappointed and disillusioned..and it is then she decided to return to Ermei to become the head..

Her love for ZWJ turned to hatred and she vowed not to have anything to do with the Ming Sect!

She is really a victim of circumstances..

i agree that zwj is kinda like a jerk...cant make up his mind which ger he wans till he has to hurt all of em n make em jealous...if he's cool he'll marry all 4 gers..lol and like i stated earlier in an earlier post i can understand how hurt zzr will b...being a ger, if my fiancee dumps me at my wedding n runs off w another ger after constanly promising me enternal love n all that crap and i hafta face all that embarrassment n talk behind my back, ill go insane...i really admire those who can still calmy accept all these n still forgive ur husband n stuff...i also feel sorry for zhu er too when she secretly peeps @ zwj w zm and i sympathise w zm too when zwj doesnt trust her n stuf...he broke all their hearts at one pt or another...he seems so loving n stuff to 1 ger thn e same to e nxt ger...the thing is i cant stand his indecisiveness....if he really loved only zm he should have rejected e rest n spare their hearts frm being broken....like er...yang guo in roch?? he knows he truely only loves xln n refuses to b tempted by all e other gers that love him too...bt i still pity n feel sorry for all e gers that love so much yet get rejected...its a sad thing...bt e worst is e guy assures u of his love yet rejects u in e end...like he's playing w ur feelings...thats zwj to zzr...ok sorry im off topic again!

[Spiritanto]

Different versions have different portrayals. There are at least 7 versions of YTTLJ..

Anyway I think I will definitely choose ZZR (if I were Alec Su in HSDS2003)...

Poor ZZR, she does made me shed a tear for her

[wkeej]

all the different versions tend to have a different version for zzr. the earliest i think zzr lost her kungfu and declared that all er-mei disciplines will be "nuns", one is that she landed up with qingsu, the latest she went back to er-mei. among all the versions, i pitied her the most in the latest version. it could be because of her acting but really it shows that she is a victim of circumstances. however, for her to be with zwj, the storyline needs to change somehow. below are some of my suggestions:
1. zwj will need to save her from some life-threatening danger during their younger days.
2. zzr instead of stabbing zwj either stabs herself and take a stab from her teacher if the latter decides to stab zwj.
3. wudang zhang san feng intervenes in the wedding ceremony, promises that he will bring back zwj to apologize personally to zzr. zwj rushes back to the ceremony though zzr has left.
4. at shaolin, zzr gets a blow for zwj from the shaolin monks or qingsu to show her love again.
(remember ther is already a touching scene that zwj was willing to drink the poison to save zzr).
zm/zzr must also somehow accept each other. thereafter they can all leave to find xiao chao.
of course, the last scene for xiao chao must have something like, "master, will you come and find (or save) me one day?"

[HynAvian]

all the different versions tend to have a different version for zzr. the earliest i think zzr lost her kungfu and declared that all er-mei disciplines will be "nuns", one is that she landed up with qingsu, the latest she went back to er-mei.

Cool, I will like to watch all the other versions too as Im crazy over this drama...and I cant read chinese so i cant read Jin Yong's books =x And i like your suggestion where if "Im zwj, I will pick all 3 girls." Perhaps, u cna come out with a fanfic where u rewrite the story and let all 3girls co-exist together with zwj. Perhaps, some bickering among the girls will make your novel interesting.

Frankly speaking, girls, put yourselves in her shoes. If your husband-to-be ran away from marriage on your wedding day..would you not hate him? All the more you will, thats because he kept making promises that "I'll love you and take care of you" "Remember you poke me with the Heaven Sword on GuangMing Peak? The deeper you poke, the more love I had for you."

OH........Like what I had said in my earlier post, if my husband to be is to abandon me at the wedding altar and to run off with another girl........he need not see me for the rest of his life. $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.computerpannen.com/cwm/contrib/blackeye/AR15firing.gif')

All this events and more happen and ZZR is clearly disappointed and disillusioned..and it is then she decided to return to Ermei to become the head..
Her love for ZWJ turned to hatred and she vowed not to have anything to do with the Ming Sect!

I would most prolly return to er-mei sect and try to glorify my sect if zwj really dumped me at the altar. So yes, I will be at logger-heads with zwj from then onwards.

My stand is still the same, if Im zwj, i will pick zzr.
But have to look fit first before going after any girls. Cool down dudes and babes, dont quarrel This should be a fun chat.

[Spiritanto]

Yes, my view is exactly the same as wjkee, in that acting matters a lot in our decicions..

Perhaps my decision will be different if I choose it from the point of the original story. It will be different if I choose it from the point of the other versions..

In this version, without a doubt, I will choose ZZR..

[wkeej]

from the very beginning, in fact, the storyline has changed the most for zzr. who knows one day zzr really can be with zwj.
btw, in the very original series, zhao min "died" in the end. she has to jump off the cliff because she was at a dilemma whereby to choose her man or country. i watched this serial when i think i was in sec sch. as tv was the only main form of entertainment, there was a lot of debate in my sch regarding the sad ending. thereafter, somehow, in later series, zm ended with zwj in the end.
and yes, i write to imagine and write. i remember i have an exercise book whereby i scribbled my own stories and very often, this exercise book was passed around my classmates and friends. too bad this exercise book is no longer with me.
besides HSDS, i am crazy over star wars too. hehe.

[Homura]

Cool down Guo Xiang
Wahaha, everyone is entitled to his or her opinions.
Like what I said, I will go to the gym and do some work out first before I choose any of them.

*Hope to join Homura in the gym*

Onzzz. Saturday mornings, NUS SRC gym. *lolz*

Probably after some workout at gym to increase my muscles, I will have enough stamina to 'handle' (or give the handle!) to all 3 galz at the same time.

[sunnysnow]

all the different versions tend to have a different version for zzr. the earliest i think zzr lost her kungfu and declared that all er-mei disciplines will be "nuns", one is that she landed up with qingsu, the latest she went back to er-mei. among all the versions, i pitied her the most in the latest version. it could be because of her acting but really it shows that she is a victim of circumstances. however, for her to be with zwj, the storyline needs to change somehow. below are some of my suggestions:
1. zwj will need to save her from some life-threatening danger during their younger days.
2. zzr instead of stabbing zwj either stabs herself and take a stab from her teacher if the latter decides to stab zwj.
3. wudang zhang san feng intervenes in the wedding ceremony, promises that he will bring back zwj to apologize personally to zzr. zwj rushes back to the ceremony though zzr has left.
4. at shaolin, zzr gets a blow for zwj from the shaolin monks or qingsu to show her love again.
(remember ther is already a touching scene that zwj was willing to drink the poison to save zzr).
zm/zzr must also somehow accept each other. thereafter they can all leave to find xiao chao.
of course, the last scene for xiao chao must have something like, "master, will you come and find (or save) me one day?"

wad interesting suggestions..maybe u could write a fanfic abt ur own version of hsds whereby zwj ends up w 3 gers...cause i love all 3 gers w him n i dun wan any to get hurt....i'll love to read ur fanfic if u did one...lol

[Guo Xiang]

des w me...geez i cant stop laughing at this comment cause it feels like a major joke...

Thank you, it's actually really made half out of jest. Half, so you can still feel mad at me, if you want to. I doubt so but it doesn't matter anyway.

With regards, I actually LIKES this version of ZZR. I was rooting all the way for her ---- only when it comes to hurting Wuji though.

I fully support her in hurting ZWJ because I think he's worst than her. He's a total jerk, see my point? Along the episodes, I thought ZWJ was showing his most hypocritic side of personality most of the time.

Originally Posted by wkeej
all the different versions tend to have a different version for zzr. the earliest i think zzr lost her kungfu and declared that all er-mei disciplines will be "nuns", one is that she landed up with qingsu, the latest she went back to er-mei. among all the versions, i pitied her the most in the latest version. it could be because of her acting but really it shows that she is a victim of circumstances. however, for her to be with zwj, the storyline needs to change somehow.

I like the one which she lost her memories and ended up with Song Qingshu, though it was the least accurate of all. But it's sweet, and at least ZZR could live in happiness and in peace when compared to the days she's still in the pugilist realm.

This version made lots of people seem nicer and in any case, ZWJ doesn't deserve any girl at all.

Btw, I thought this version's ZZR has mental problems. She's really showing signs of it.

[Spiritanto]

With regards, I actually LIKES this version of ZZR. I was rooting all the way for her ---- only when it comes to hurting Wuji though.

I fully support her in hurting ZWJ because I think he's worst than her. He's a total jerk, see my point? Along the episodes, I thought ZWJ was showing his most hypocritic side of personality most of the time.

You're right!! Yesterday I was really hoping that ZWJ won't leave the wedding. It's pretty obvious that ZM had no intention of helping him find his godfather. SHE already knew where HE's at..She's just making used of his godfather to ruin the wedding!!!!
I really wished ZWJ didn't had to abandon ZZR at the altar.. I think the humiliation is too great for ZZR to handle..
In the coming episodes, I fully support ZZR's attempts at hurting ZWJ..!!! ZWJ deserves it, that jerk!

This version made lots of people seem nicer and in any case, ZWJ doesn't deserve any girl at all.

Btw, I thought this version's ZZR has mental problems. She's really showing signs of it.

Yeah, I thought so too. This version made me feel as though she's on the verge of a mental breakdown -- unlike the other versions, whereby the transformation from good to evil is fully complete..

Poor ZZR had to go through all these.. *sob*