Wang Chong Yang - was he silly ?

[Candide]

Many people would think that WCY was silly when he kept avoiding Lin Chao Ying and refusing to marry her, causing all sorts of troubles for both... but was he really silly ?

The two travelled jianghu together, fighting the Jin invaders. Then as we know, WCY's army was defeated and he retreated to the Ancient Tomb, until LCY forced him to come out. It was said that they probably had feelings for each other, but WCY kept giving her excuses, such as: "one should not think of marriage until the invaders have been defeated" and other similar bullshit stuff. Why would he say that to a "perfect" woman: highly intelligent and talented, very beautiful and very supportive of him...

I reckon WCY thought that while LCY was a good friend, she would be a terrible wife/lifelong partner due her being very possessive and controlling. We can simply consider the bet she forced WCY to make when she tried to get him out of the Tomb:

"If you win, I will commit suicide. If I win, you will either have to listen to what I say for the rest of your life, or you will have to become a Taoist, give the Ancient Tomb to me, and build your sect's shrine on this mountain."

So he couldn't win, because he didn't want to lose a good friend. He didn't want to pick the first option if he lost either, because that'd mean he would have to wear a skirt and a bra for the rest of his life. What self-respecting man would do that ? The other option wasn't great either... but to him it was better than the other two. It seemed clear to me that while he might have some feelings for LCY, he clearly didn't love her. He was scared of her, more accurately.

LCY, what a bit*ch she was. See how extreme she (and her sect) became after that. Spitting on his portrait became the first thing an Ancient Tomb disciple had to do. AT disciples had to be females, and would have to hate all males because they are supposed to be arseholes that cheat on women and treat them badly (although WCY never did). It would be fine for AT disciples to beat up others, but if others defend themselves and happen to injure or kill an AT disciple, it would be murder. Granny Sun was trying to kill that Quanzhen master, too bad she was too weak and got killed, tought titties. Yet we can see how Yang Guo and XLN turned it around and made it seem like the entire Quanzhen sect were oppressing an old lady and a small child, and killed the poor lady...

I'd rather become a stinking cow-nosed Taoist than marry such a woman. Apparently WCY thought the same ^_^

[Suet Seung]

I do agree with you to some extent.

But as a woman, I must defend LCY.

Her ultimatums were meant to see if WCY loved her as you already know. If he won, she'd commit suicide, which if WCY loved her, he'd choose to lose to her. If she won, if he loves her deeply, he wouldn't mind listening to her and marrying her (whether or not he has to listen to her completely is another story, a husband and wife relationship is suppose to be on mutual agreement so no one is bigger than the other. Besides, they're both equally smart, skillful and such) and the last part, if he didn't love her he'd have to become a taoist, therefore, never marrying anyone else. And for constellation(sp?) prize, he has give her the ancient tomb and be in a close area by her--hence the shrine.

OKAY, perhaps she is possessive but how could you blame her? If you loved someone, it would hurt you to see them marry someone else instead of you and be so far away from you. So for LCY, she had her REASONS, to let WCY choose to marry her or forever live single and virgin for the rest of his life and to keep him as her neighbor for the rest of their lives. But one of the main reasons why she HAD to make such ultimatiums were because being a woman she couldn't just go straight out and propose marriage with WCY, could she? And her pride didn't let her, perhaps?


Although WCY kept his promise to give her the ancient tomb and to build a shrine on the mountain, what she really hoped for was he'd choose to be with her and marry her. So as a way to relieve her anger and hurt/pain from being rejected by WCY, she made her students and decendants spit on WCY's painting. It's a woman thing, it's the only way for her to get back at WCY for rejecting her.

And feeling hurt and rejected by WCY, she didn't want to see any other men in her life, so of course she would only accept female students. And she didn't want her students to feel the same hurt as she did so she made those type of rules for them to never experience the pain and happiness that came with Love.
That's also probably the same source of pain in which she got inspired to create such a marital art technique that requires you to be emotionless--best example is XLN.

Hmm...it seems from ROCH, even though she had a bitter resentment against WCY, she had hoped they would be married since she had a full wedding gown in her trunk and had kept all the letters that WCY wrote to her. Although WCY might not have loved her as much as she did love him or he didn't love her at all. Both WCY and LCY seem to care for each other. Otherwise, WCY wouldn't have cared enough to tell his students never to disturb the Ancient Tomb sect, respect AT and protect the people in it too? WCY wouldn't care to write all those letters and try to teach LCY to cure herself when she was deeply injured by West Poison.

Okay, enough of my rambling. Just interpreting how I see it.

[Exodus]

Yeah i think was silly, but IF he didnt really love her or because he wanna put his country first then i cant blame him. I do believe that he had some feeling for LCY but whether it was love or friendship im not sure

But in the end i have to say he was SILLY, hey theres a beautiful and smart girl that loves him how could he have turned her down.

On the other side if WCY didnt rejected her, YG would probably never met XLN so they kinda make up for their ancestors mistakes

[Candide]

If he won, she'd commit suicide, which if WCY loved her, he'd choose to lose to her.

Err... wrong. The fact that he didn't want her to die doesn't mean that he loved her. He could simply think of her as a good friend and care for her as a friend would.

OKAY, perhaps she is possessive but how could you blame her? If you loved someone, it would hurt you to see them marry someone else instead of you and be so far away from you. So for LCY, she had her REASONS, to let WCY choose to marry her or forever live single and virgin for the rest of his life and to keep him as her neighbor for the rest of their lives.

Very very selfish, don't you think ?

So as a way to relieve her anger and hurt/pain from being rejected by WCY, she made her students and decendants spit on WCY's painting. It's a woman thing, it's the only way for her to get back at WCY for rejecting her.

That's low and petty.

WCY wouldn't care to write all those letters and try to teach LCY to cure herself when she was deeply injured by West Poison.

I do agree (as I said previously as well) that he cared a lot for her, but only as good friends would care for each other. He clearly did not love her. Otherwise, he wouldn't give all of those excuses not to marry her. We can understand why he made those (rather silly) excuses as we read about LCY's petty reactions afterwards. I don't see Cheng Ying, Luk Wu Song or Gong Sun whatever-her-name-is react like that.

LCY's extreme reactions make me think that she might have been mentally sick.

But in the end i have to say he was SILLY, hey theres a beautiful and smart girl that loves him how could he have turned her down.

Well, not necessarily. A great man like WCY wouldn't have many problems finding a woman that is both smart and beautiful, without having to put up with all the bit*ching that would likely come from someone like LCY

On the other side if WCY didnt rejected her, YG would probably never met XLN so they kinda make up for their ancestors mistakes

Well it's more serious than just that... If he married LCY, there would be no Quanzhen sect, no Ma Yue, no Qiu Chu Ji. As a result, Guo Jing would be a nobody. There wouldn't be any drama happened to Yang Kang. Would be no Yang Guo.... it goes on In fact, that's exactly what Qiu Chu Ji told Guo Jing in ROCH.

[Suet Seung]

For the first one, that was a typo. I didn't mean that he wanted her to commit suicide, not letting her die meant he cared for her, so he chose to lose to her.

Selfish, perhaps but when in love, who says you have to play by the rules?

Spiting at the painting is not as bad as secretly going to his shrine and playing petty pranks and injuring or poisoning him, his students and descendants like what Ah Zhi would have done or what Madame Ma did to Qiao Feng which is far worse in more ways than one.

Mentally sick? More like ruled by emotions and desperation to have WCY.

[Candide]

Mentally sick? More like ruled by emotions and desperation to have WCY.

Oh, so you mean she was so obsessed with the possession of WCY and that totally ruled her ? Seems like a case of mental sickness to me

[Exodus]

Well ofcourse WCY could have find a smart and beautiful girl, but i doubt he could find someone who is so skilled in martial art than LCY
Would WCY liked to have a wife that didnt know any martial art? That coud be boring for him

[Candide]

I doubt that WCY was that obsessed with martial arts... He actually taught his disciples the total opposite. So I don't think he would care if his wife knew to fight or not. I think you're thinking more of ZBT than WCY Only a person like ZBT, who lives and breathes martial arts, would want and only accept a wife who's also into it.

[Suet Seung]

Originally posted by Candide
Oh, so you mean she was so obsessed with the possession of WCY and that totally ruled her ? Seems like a case of mental sickness to me

She's just striving to get what she wants. So would you say MuRong Fu is a mental case too? MRF's goal is to revive the Yan Empire while LCY's goal is to have WCY as her husband. Everyone has different goals they strive towards and try to get what they want no matter what it takes, right?

If MRF isn't a good example perhaps XF, he could have stopped searching for T"he Big Brother leader" temporarily when Ah Zhu told him to forget about his revenge and stay with her a couple years and then later on take revenge, but would he listen? Because he didn't want to listen, Ah Zhu had to go on with her plan to go in place for her father and thus she died by the hands of XF; causing XF to forever regret it.

But anyways, I doubt you'd see it my way so retort and debate. Debating exercises the mind, so it's all good.

[Candide]

Everyone has different goals they strive towards and try to get what they want no matter what it takes, right?

The "no matter what it takes" part is what indicates mental sickness. Xiao Feng was obsessed with revenge but he regretted it deeply (and dropped it as well) when it hurted the one he loved most. People like LCY and MRF never regret what they do, because they justify everything with that "no matter what it takes" excuse.

[Floo..]

Re: the spitting part

For a woman to know that a man (that you love) would rather stay unmarried for the rest of his life than to marry her....

well, that's an ultimate insult
(as if marrying her is the most horrible act on earth).

so yah..... spitting part

also. just my two cents.... i dont know how men those days behave, but I think WCY was not a gentleman either. instead of explaining that he's just not into her (OK, some crying n hurling scenes may follow ), he made up excuses and COULD lead LCY into thinking that WCY actually wanna marry her. I think that's why she pushed him so much, because she thought that he wanna marry her n just needed some pushing (like he's shy).....

I think Jin Yong really understand women ^_^

[Candide]

What are you talking about ? He's a gentleman. If it were Candide, he would just say: bugger off, you annoying b-word, me not interested.

[Floo..]

IMHO, a gentleman will not put a girl on 'status quo'. assuming that WCY didnt say that he didnt wanna marry LCY (but instead said tons and tons of reasons).

Candide's way is, of course, brutal yet at least LCY will get the right idea where her position is

Oh, I just remembered reading something on Cosmo Magazine:
If a guy you don't like asked you to go out w/ him, don't say you can't because you are busy. It implies that you want, yet you are busy (so next time you will go w/ him. Instead, say something definite, like "I dont want to."

[Exodus]

Well maybe WCY didnt want to hurt her, thats maybe why he made all those excuses

Besides LCY would probably do the same thing even if WCY told her "i dont wanna marry u ", i just think she loves WCY so deeply that whatever he says she would still be obsessed with him

[Guo Xiang]

Golly, this whole topic is so amusing. Candide's posts never fail to make me smile or laugh.

Perhaps WCY was a very nice man. The type who's nice to about almost everyone. And naturally when met with a beautiful and smart lady like LCY, he would probably show her more respect and 'niceness'.

Now the problem is, when a guy is very nice to a girl, she would most usually be misled into thinking 'Is he interested in me?' or 'I think he's interested in me'.

To LCY, perhaps WCY's friendliness got translated into 'love' and WCY probably did not notice it until later and he's not interested to be in love or whatsoever. So he chose to run but LCY proved to be really clingy. o.O;

Does this make sense?

[Candide]

Candide's posts never fail to make me smile or laugh.

It's my pleasure since I'm a big fan of you and your mother

By the way don't you notice that whatever you wrote in your post all point to one conclusion: he's gay (the obligatory "not that there's anything wrong with that" included).

[SkineePanda]

Maybe he's simply afraid of commitment. He wanted to take the lands back from the Jin invaders and he's probably a man with high aspirations, marriage he thought might tie him down.

[Candide]

He's not. Firstly at that time he wasn't into fighting the Jins anymore. Secondly, LCY with her talents could help him with a lot of things should he want to fight the invaders. Thirdly, Guo Jing never had such problem and he's just as commited to defending his country as WCY...

[Guo Xiang]

Originally posted by Candide
It's my pleasure since I'm a big fan of you and your mother

By the way don't you notice that whatever you wrote in your post all point to one conclusion: he's gay (the obligatory "not that there's anything wrong with that" included).

Thank you.

Did I make it sound that way? But then thinking about it again, who knows. He might just be a gay for all we know.

[Thai guy]

If he is a gay, who is his partner? ZBT?