Zhang Wuji and ROCH end greats

[tape]

He's a peacekeeper.

It's interesting. Xiao Feng kills himself out of compassion for others and he's lauded as the greatest and most selfless hero ever. Zhang Wuji's compassion for others only gets him scorn.

You can't just take one similarity and note the irony of the situation because the situation is completely different in all other aspects. It's like saying it's interesting how the four Greats all have the same level of martial arts, but Hong Qigong is regarded as the only hero amongst them!

There's tons of other factors, and it's really not surprising or interesting at all that XF is toted so much higher than Wuji. He was created as more or less the perfect storybook hero while Wuji is not.

[goodrick]

i really do doubt zwj is great levels. more like mei chou fong level i believe.

You cannot be serious.
ZWJ mastered Jiuyang Zhenjing which was comparable to the Jiuying Zhenjing. Lets not forget Jiuying Zhenjing was the top martial arts of LOCH. All greats fought over it. Ouyang Feng pretty much spend his entire adult life obsessing over it. Everyone understood that anyone who mastered Jiuying ZJ would be the top martial artist.
Zhang Wuji also mastered Qian Kun Da Nuo Yi which was a top martial art and very difficult to master. Ordinarily someone would take decades if at all to master it.
You cannot be serious comparing Zhang Wuji to Mei Chaofeng!

[aliderhamy]

Which makes him a bad fighter. There's nothing wrong with being soft and thoughtful, but you can't really complain when that works to your detriment in something such as fighting.

your not getting my point.
Who was the greatest fighter of dgsd ?and who was the greatest fighter in hsds ?

sweeper monk and the old toist were considerd the greatest... they achieved this result by turning thier back on shalow worldly values.

I am saying that it was becouse of his wimpy charecter that ZWX was able to master his advanced martial arts.

and that when the time comes he wil simply step up and do what it takes.

[tape]

your not getting my point.
Who was the greatest fighter of dgsd ?and who was the greatest fighter in hsds ?

sweeper monk and the old toist were considerd the greatest... they achieved this result by turning thier back on shalow worldly values.

I am saying that it was becouse of his wimpy charecter that ZWX was able to master his advanced martial arts.

and that when the time comes he wil simply step up and do what it takes.

And who were the greatest fighters in every other era? People like Dugu Qiubai, Huang Shang, Dongfong Bubai, Yang Guo/Guo Jing ? They are all intelligent people that were ferocious and aggresive when fighting, and were not overly pacifist in their overall mindset. And "shallow worldly values" have nothing to do with fighting aggressively and intelligently when required, which Wuji does not do.

I can accept that you think people like Xu Zhu, Shi Potian, Zhang Wuji achieved their martial arts due to their compassionate nature, and thus good things happening to them, but that is NOT a reason for why they would be able to dominate in a fight.

Wuji achieved his level through being "wimpy" as you say, fine. But his level is no greater than a ROCH Great, and I argue much lower. Against someone lesser he can use his superior achievements to make up for his lack of fighting instincts, but against a Great who has equal achievement, he will lose because he lacks the experience and fighting instincts they've developed. It is not impossible for him to reach or surpass them, but at the end of HSDS he has shown to be lacking compared to them.

He is only able to step up because his closest opponents are all much weaker than him. That's not really stepping up. The ROCH greats actually had to step up, because their opponents at times were as strong or stronger than them. That's what made them develop into better and better fighters.

[CancerLuna]

Its like the fighting game communities. Americans should have near equal execution as the Japanese, but their communities are entirely different. Competition is close and flourishes whereas, in America, its hard to find top level opponents. There can be some Americans(ZWJ) who dominate their communities(HSDS), but once they come to Japan(ROCH), its rare if they ever place high.

[tape]

Yup, and it's not really an inherent or genetic thing either, it's purely just about the amount of competition. Americans dominated MvC2 because the Japanese didn't really play it as much.

Koreans dominated Broodwars but and still are better at Starcraft 2, but the gap is much closer because there is increased competition outside of Korea. Competition and the experience it gives you is vastly underrated when two people have equal starting points, in this case inner power and technique.

[Western Eccentric]

Sure..
Post 16 years Yang Guo could 1-hit K.O people at Yang Xiao/Xie Xun level

[Ken Cheng]

Sure..
Post 16 years Yang Guo could 1-hit K.O people at Yang Xiao/Xie Xun level

Each of the Greats likely could, given the right circumstances. That's the reason they're the Greats and people like Yau Chui Gei and Ohr Jen Ngok are not.

[Western Eccentric]

Yeah..
I mean Wuji compare with YG or the other greats ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah..
I mean Wuji compare with YG or the other greats ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️

Cheung Mo Gei had the ability to do it too...but he didn't because he had an alarming tendency to fight down to the level of the competition.

[Western Eccentric]

Cheung Mo Gei had the ability to do it to...but he didn't because he had an alarming tendency to fight down to the level of the competition.

👍👍👍👍
True..

[Western Eccentric]

Was Zhang Wuji at the level of ROCH end greats or was his level greater or lesser than them? and at what point did he reach/surpass the ROCH-end great level? Was is immediately after he learned the entire Jiuyang Zhen Jing or was it after he mastered Qian Kun Da Nuo Yi or was it sometime later?

Wuji not at Guo Jing/Yang Guo "level"..
Even HIS Yang Guo + 7 years of ocean training can "destroy" him..

[Ken Cheng]

Wuji not at Guo Jing/Yang Guo "level"..
Even HIS Yang Guo + 7 years of ocean training can "destroy" him..

Cheung Mo Gei lacks their fighting instincts, but I have no doubt that by the end of HSDS, his inner power is *at least* equal to theirs.

[Western Eccentric]

Cheung Mo Gei lacks their fighting instincts, but I have no doubt that by the end of HSDS, his inner power is *at least* equal to theirs.

Yeahhh..
But in actual fight he's not better than pre 16 years Jinlun Fawang or Qiu Qianren
⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️

[Ken Cheng]

Yeahhh..
But in actual fight he's not better than pre 16 years Jinlun Fawang or Qiu Qianren
⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️

Cheung Mo Gei was an acolyte of the Dr. Leonard McCoy School of Engagement.

[Western Eccentric]

Cheung Mo Gei was an acolyte of the Dr. Leonard McCoy School of Engagement.

Hmmm..
Who sorry I don't know him🤔🤔🤔🤔

[St3v3]

Do not forget ZWJ can imitate the opponent's stances in a very short time. Pretty sure he can learn 18 dragon subduing palms if he fights GJ, 6MSJ if he fights DY and so on.

In JY evaluation, it is author's intention to write a more complex personality of main characters and also improve his skill of writing on the story plot.

It is more or less the same when the author of Spiderman write the personality to make it more realistic, give the hero some problems ( personality and people's surround him)

LOCH is written earlier than HSDS and DGDS. We can see the difference in terms of story complexity.

[Western Eccentric]

Do not forget ZWJ can imitate the opponent's stances in a very short time. Pretty sure he can learn 18 dragon subduing palms if he fights GJ, 6MSJ if he fights DY and so on.

In JY evaluation, it is author's intention to write a more complex personality of main characters and also improve his skill of writing on the story plot.

It is more or less the same when the author of Spiderman write the personality to make it more realistic, give the hero some problems ( personality and people's surround him)

LOCH is written earlier than HSDS and DGDS. We can see the difference in terms of story complexity.

Then tell me why Wuji couldn't "instantly" learn Tai Chi and Persian Holy Tablet Martial Arts without Z3F and Xiao Zhao guidelines..

[Ken Cheng]

Then tell me why Wuji couldn't "instantly" learn Tai Chi and Persian Holy Tablet Martial Arts without Z3F and Xiao Zhao guidelines..

It only works on weaker opponents. Against someone who is equal or stronger, it doesn't work.

[Western Eccentric]

It only works on weaker opponents. Against someone who is equal or stronger, it doesn't work.

What I mean is it's true Wuji could quickly learn Tai Chi and Persian Holy Tablet Martial Arts but only if he get "guide" but without guidelines he couldn't "instantly" learn/mastered these skills so the theory that Wuji could mastered every skills without guidelines is "wrong"..