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Thread: How good was Golden Wheel Monk with the Dragon Elephant Prajna technique?

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    Question How good was Golden Wheel Monk with the Dragon Elephant Prajna technique?

    How good (or bad) was Golden Wheel Monk with the Dragon Elephant Prajna technique? You know the move he learns/masters much later on the story.

    I've watched the many adaptations of ROCH and forgot how the move was depicted in most of them, but the one that I DO remember was in ROCH1995, where when he used it against Fan Yiweng (the long-bearded guy) in the forest, the move emitted multiple green Dragon auras that homed in onto Yiweng, trapping him and then exploding when the dragons "got the better" of him.

    Later on, when Huang Rong and co. were looking for Guo Xiang, GWM used it again at the mountain/cliff area against Huang Yaoshi, Yideng and Zhou Botong simultaneously and all three struggled against his Dragon Elephant Prajna technique. Later, GWM, expecting death by suicide and wanting the last word, boasts on how he would have not been defeated or how they would not have been his match if they had instead fought him one-on-one.

    The way TVB depicted the move in ROCH1995, it seems to be very tough to counter with the only exception being Yang Guo who got GWM by surprise with the Melancholic Palms technique. Yideng did fairly well against the "dragon auras" with the Yiyang Finger.

    Therefore with that in mind, how good do you think GWM with the Dragon Elephant Prajna technique was? How would he fare against East Heretic, Western Poison, Northern Beggar, etc.? Do you think the move is worthy of being compared to the fighting techniques within the Nine Yin and Nine Yang Manuals? Etc.
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    The Golden Wheel Monk had lots of raw power with his attainment of the Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung, but I'm not convinced that his great power fully compensated for his ongoing issues with technique. He is a Greats-level fighter, but I have a feeling that the likes of East Heretic, West Poison, and North Beggar, if they were all still living at the end of ROCH and continued their martial art development, would have still been able to overcome him using their savvy. I don't think trying to contest the Golden Wheel Monk in raw power would be a good idea, however. That would be playing to *his* strength.

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    Yeah honestly Dragon/Elephant Wisdom very powerful that even Zhou Botong and Yideng didn't dare to meet Jinlun Fawang's strike "head on" but in JY universe (especially Condor Trilogy) you cannot win only with "power" so though Jinlun might be superior than The Greats in terms of "power" but The Greats more versatile and balance in power and technique so unless Jinlun use his wheels I would give him 50:50 against The Greats (exclude Guo Jing and Yang Guo)..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Golden Wheel Monk had lots of raw power with his attainment of the Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung, but I'm not convinced that his great power fully compensated for his ongoing issues with technique. He is a Greats-level fighter, but I have a feeling that the likes of East Heretic, West Poison, and North Beggar, if they were all still living at the end of ROCH and continued their martial art development, would have still been able to overcome him using their savvy. I don't think trying to contest the Golden Wheel Monk in raw power would be a good idea, however. That would be playing to *his* strength.
    Yeah that's why Mohammad Ali never going "toe to toe" against George Foreman 🤭🤭🤭🤭

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Yeah that's why Mohammad Ali never going "toe to toe" against George Foreman 🤭🤭🤭🤭
    Exactly. Foreman would have punched his lights out if Ali's strategy had been to just stand there and tank it (the Rocky Balboa strategy). Ali had to play "Rope a Dope" with Foreman to win. I think the other Greats would have worn down the Golden Wheel Monk and defeated him that way. Even Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor, the two strongest Greats by the end of ROCH, wouldn't try to outpower the Golden Wheel Monk. Sad Palms' victory over the Golden Wheel Monk was a victory of superior technique, not superior power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Exactly. Foreman would have punched his lights out if Ali's strategy had been to just stand there and tank it (the Rocky Balboa strategy). Ali had to play "Rope a Dope" with Foreman to win. I think the other Greats would have worn down the Golden Wheel Monk and defeated him that way. Even Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor, the two strongest Greats by the end of ROCH, wouldn't try to outpower the Golden Wheel Monk. Sad Palms' victory over the Golden Wheel Monk was a victory of superior technique, not superior power.
    Yeah exactly..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I'm not convinced that his great power fully compensated for his ongoing issues with technique.
    Is his "ongoing issues" with his technique known to be a 'weakness' though?

    He did fairly well against both YG and XLN's duo swordplay many times bare-handed and with the wheel (such as the scene inside and outside the restaurant with Huang Rong and co. there), but granted that this was early YG and XLN.

    In the scene at Quenzhen where YG returns there with the Heavy Iron Sword, YG only managed to defeat GWM because XLN surprised him with the needle.

    Then you also have the scene (at least in ROCH1995) at the end where he fought bare-handed against YG (also bare handed) above the fires, and GWM got the better of him. Granted that YG only had one arm, but one-armed older YG is a top level fighter, as proven against Zhou Botong.

    I have a feeling that the likes of East Heretic, West Poison, and North Beggar, if they were all still living at the end of ROCH and continued their martial art development, would have still been able to overcome him using their savvy.
    Isn't East Heretic, Yideng, West Poison (would be) and North Beggar (would be) much older than GWM? If yes, then I can imagine GWM having an advantage here. He's basically mastered the Dragon Elephant technique at an age where he isn't too old, meaning that he would be in his prime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconPunch190 View Post
    Is his "ongoing issues" with his technique known to be a 'weakness' though?

    He did fairly well against both YG and XLN's duo swordplay many times bare-handed and with the wheel (such as the scene inside and outside the restaurant with Huang Rong and co. there), but granted that this was early YG and XLN.

    In the scene at Quenzhen where YG returns there with the Heavy Iron Sword, YG only managed to defeat GWM because XLN surprised him with the needle.

    Then you also have the scene (at least in ROCH1995) at the end where he fought bare-handed against YG (also bare handed) above the fires, and GWM got the better of him. Granted that YG only had one arm, but one-armed older YG is a top level fighter, as proven against Zhou Botong.
    The Golden Wheel Monk consistently gets flummoxed by fancy techniques (of which there are many in Chinese wulin). Double Sword Attack, Dog Beating Stick Technique...these tend to get the better of him and cause him to forget that he has superior strength and can power through the techniques. Once in a blue moon (as when he fought Wong Yung), he'll have a moment of lucidity and remember to use his strength, but nine out of ten times, the Golden Wheel Monk plays into the hands of opponents who get around his strength advantage by out-techniquing him. It's almost comical how often he falls for it.



    Isn't East Heretic, Yideng, West Poison (would be) and North Beggar (would be) much older than GWM? If yes, then I can imagine GWM having an advantage here. He's basically mastered the Dragon Elephant technique at an age where he isn't too old, meaning that he would be in his prime.
    Younger than the Greats, but older than Gwok Jing. That won't solve his problem of getting flummoxed by technique, however (unless he closes his eyes and just powers through, but he *rarely* demonstrates such presence of mind). For someone who has attained such a high level of martial arts mastery, the Golden Wheel Monk alarmingly lacks good combat instincts (Cheung Mo Gei also had a similar problem).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Golden Wheel Monk consistently gets flummoxed by fancy techniques (of which there are many in Chinese wulin). Double Sword Attack, Dog Beating Stick Technique...these tend to get the better of him and cause him to forget that he has superior strength and can power through the techniques. Once in a blue moon (as when he fought Wong Yung), he'll have a moment of lucidity and remember to use his strength, but nine out of ten times, the Golden Wheel Monk plays into the hands of opponents who get around his strength advantage by out-techniquing him. It's almost comical how often he falls for it.

    Younger than the Greats, but older than Gwok Jing. That won't solve his problem of getting flummoxed by technique, however (unless he closes his eyes and just powers through, but he *rarely* demonstrates such presence of mind). For someone who has attained such a high level of martial arts mastery, the Golden Wheel Monk alarmingly lacks good combat instincts (Cheung Mo Gei also had a similar problem).
    He may have wised up all those years after "losing" to YG with HIS (due to a sneaky feint attack by XLN with her needle) at the Quenzhen sect. He may also have trained to better his techniques whilst learning the Dragon Elephant technique. All of his "comical" failings happened before he reappears with the Dragon Elephant technique; since his reappearance I cannot think of any more comical failings aside from the over-confidence after knocking YG down above the fires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconPunch190 View Post
    He may have wised up all those years after "losing" to YG with HIS (due to a sneaky feint attack by XLN with her needle) at the Quenzhen sect. He may also have trained to better his techniques whilst learning the Dragon Elephant technique. All of his "comical" failings happened before he reappears with the Dragon Elephant technique; since his reappearance I cannot think of any more comical failings aside from the over-confidence after knocking YG down above the fires.
    Well if Yang Guo could move freely he would destroy Jinlun Fawang quite easily since Jinlun didn't dare to face Yang Guo's strike head on..

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