Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Was Chow Chi Yerk a better 9 Yum White Bones claw practitioner than Mui Chiu Fung?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default Was Chow Chi Yerk a better 9 Yum White Bones claw practitioner than Mui Chiu Fung?

    Mui Chiu Fung was the most proficient user of 9 Yum White Bone Claws in LOCH. After the death of her husband, nobody was able to use this skill better than she could (although the only other user was Yeung Hong). Her proficiency in this skill was good enough to terrorize the likes of Au Yeung Hak, the Gong Nam 7 Freaks, and the *individual* Cheun Jen 7 Disciples, but posed no threat at all to Greats-level fighters.

    After Chow Chi Yerk learned the 9 Yum White Bone Claws in HSDS, she too was not really a match for any Greats-level fighter, but seemed able to stymie the sub-Greats of her era (e.g. the Mo Dong Heroes, Ming Cult Guardian Lords, etc.) in a way that Mui Chiu Fung could not do so decisively. Would you say that Chow Chi Yerk's mastery of 9 Yum White Bone Claws surpassed that of Mui Chiu Fung?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    2,786

    Default

    Possibly. After all, ZZR learned the abridged 9yin claws which was written by Huang Rong and Guo Jing, who had access to the complete 9yin. That shortcut version, while not as powerful as the real thing, would have incorporate balanced portions of the external and internal arts, while MCF only had the external art as a guide. She did have many more years to practise, but had no guidance, and absolutely no internal art cultivation to go with the external skill.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    306

    Default

    I think that this is a pretty complicated question. While Mei Chaofeng is working off an incomplete version of the Nine Claws, she had almost two decades to perfect the art. She also had a strong foundation in martial arts from Huang Yaoshi.

    Zhou Zhirou was working from a complete version of the Nine Claws, but she had only a few months to master it. While she managed to win almost all of her one-on-one fights using this skill, I'm not convinced that she fully mastered it. If she had done so before her wedding, Zhao Min would have probably died that very day.

    At the Lion-Slaying Assembly, Zhou Zhirou won mostly by using the superiority of her moveset and her opponents' unfamiliarity with it. Conversely, against foes who could draw out the fight, or who were familiar with the Nine Claws, Zhou Zhirou's inexperience and lack of a strong foundation (both of moves and internal energy) means that she would be certain to lose. The fight against the Yellow Lady illustrates these limitationsquite clearly.

    If it were a one-vs-one between Mei Chaofeng and Zhou Zhirou, I'd say that Zhou Zhirou would be closer to mastering the Nine Claws on a technical level and have the early upper hand. But Mei Chaofeng would eventually win out as she would have some of the same strengths the Yellow Lady exhibited. All she has to do is draw the fight out until Zhou Zhirou's advantages evaporate. If Zhou Zhirou had a couple of years to fully master the Nine Claws (and the other Nine Yin skills), then she would be decisively better than Mei Chaofeng.

    Thought experiment: I think it's pretty obvious that Mei Chaofeng would fare better against the Yellow Lady by falling back to her non-Nine Yin moves if nothing else. But does anyone think that it would make much difference?

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    Possibly. After all, ZZR learned the abridged 9yin claws which was written by Huang Rong and Guo Jing, who had access to the complete 9yin. That shortcut version, while not as powerful as the real thing, would have incorporate balanced portions of the external and internal arts, while MCF only had the external art as a guide. She did have many more years to practise, but had no guidance, and absolutely no internal art cultivation to go with the external skill.
    Mei was able to gain a small bit of the Quanzhen inner strength cultivation methods through Ma Yu. He said that she would benefit quite a bit from his clarification.

    The other thing is that Mei is able to beat Quanzhen elders one on one in a straight up fight. Qiu Chuji might give her trouble, but she is more or less better or equal to the rest. Zhou is supposed to be much less powerful in terms of real martial arts than a Wudang hero. I think the two are roughly equal, so the fact that Mei is better than (most of) them while ZZR is much worse, I'd have to say Mei is stronger.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Giang Ho, Canada
    Posts
    4,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    Zhou Zhirou was working from a complete version of the Nine Claws, but she had only a few months to master it. While she managed to win almost all of her one-on-one fights using this skill, I'm not convinced that she fully mastered it. If she had done so before her wedding, Zhao Min would have probably died that very day.
    Justice would be served.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    4 seasons in 1 day
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    I'd say MXF is a better practitioner. She's had decades to study it over and over.

    While ZZR learned a more wholistic version of it. She didn't really understand it, as evident by her being at a loss when it is used against her.

  7. #7
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    Thought experiment: I think it's pretty obvious that Mei Chaofeng would fare better against the Yellow Lady by falling back to her non-Nine Yin moves if nothing else. But does anyone think that it would make much difference?
    Probably not. As a descendant of Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl, Lady Yeung of the Yellow Robes probably had much more in her arsenal than just 9 Yum Divine Claws.

  8. #8
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default

    I'd also point out that while Chow Chi Yerk was able to use the 9 Yum White Bone Claws to at least surprise and throw off opponents who were actually superior to her, Mui Chiu Fung was never able to use her claws to put anyone above her level at even a momentary disadvantage.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    2,786

    Default

    I always got the impression that people like Huang Yaoshi, Hong 7 Gong or even Qiu Qianren would be able to blow Mei Chaofeng away with just a sneeze, while it looked like Zhang Wuji would take a bit of effort to beat Zhou Zhiruo (and Real Man Zhang would at least be forced to concentrate). That's probably due to the element of surprise, though, but it does make Zhou Zhiruo look nearer than Mei Chaofeng when viewed from the lofty perch of a great.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I'd also point out that while Chow Chi Yerk was able to use the 9 Yum White Bone Claws to at least surprise and throw off opponents who were actually superior to her, Mui Chiu Fung was never able to use her claws to put anyone above her level at even a momentary disadvantage.
    What Mei Chaofeng seemed to get from the Nine Claws was to be able to dominate opponents weaker than she was. If she understood the martial art to the extent that Zhou Zhirou did, then she would probably be able to fare much better against superior opponents. Against the Wudang champions, Yin Liting could only defend against Zhou Zhirou's whip and Yu Lianzhou could only kill her at the cost of his own life. Technically, their skill level is quite a bit higher, but where it counts, Zhou Zhirou at least their equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I'd say MXF is a better practitioner. She's had decades to study it over and over.

    While ZZR learned a more wholistic version of it. She didn't really understand it, as evident by her being at a loss when it is used against her.
    That's not completely fair - the Yellow Lady was the absolute worst opponent Zhou Zhirou could have drawn. There's little dishonor in losing to the deus ex machina character, and I doubt that Mei Chaofeng could have been any more successful. Thinking about it, the Yellow Lady using the Nine Claws is probably the strongest showing of that skill actually depicted in a novel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    I always got the impression that people like Huang Yaoshi, Hong 7 Gong or even Qiu Qianren would be able to blow Mei Chaofeng away with just a sneeze, while it looked like Zhang Wuji would take a bit of effort to beat Zhou Zhiruo (and Real Man Zhang would at least be forced to concentrate). That's probably due to the element of surprise, though, but it does make Zhou Zhiruo look nearer than Mei Chaofeng when viewed from the lofty perch of a great.
    Zhang Wuji's relative inexperience may play a factor as well. He didn't have too much trouble figuring out how to counter Song Qingshu's Nine Claws - maybe it's an artifact of his weakness vs. women at play .

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    108

    Default

    The most proficient 9yin bone claw user in the LOCH aside from Huang Shang is only Zhou BuTong, he could demonstrate the correct stances just a few moments after he read the skin 9 yin book brought by GJ. ZBT said that MCF misunderstood the stances because of his limitation of skill and talent.

    in the HSDS, it is already 100 years since the last people saw the 9yin bone claw in the world, so i assume it is logic that ZZR could beat some of the higher pugilists. in the long term ZZR can be much better than MCF since he learn the complete version of it aand also has read 9 yin manuals fully (before Zhao Min stole it and give it to ZWJ). ZWJ also has given some of his pointers to ZZR to learn it slowly and start form the fundamentals of 9yin.

    ZZR is also very young and talented, we could see in the Bright Peak battel, he could see some weaknesses of other pugilists stances easily and tells how to beat it. Something that we dont see in MCF.

    ZWJ vs ZZR, come on, it is only a fight between with a man and his ex fiancee. Not a battle between 2 top pugilists in the jianghu.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Giang Ho, Canada
    Posts
    4,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by St3v3 View Post
    The most proficient 9yin bone claw user in the LOCH aside from Huang Shang is only Zhou BuTong, he could demonstrate the correct stances just a few moments after he read the skin 9 yin book brought by GJ. ZBT said that MCF misunderstood the stances because of his limitation of skill and talent.

    in the HSDS, it is already 100 years since the last people saw the 9yin bone claw in the world, so i assume it is logic that ZZR could beat some of the higher pugilists. in the long term ZZR can be much better than MCF since he learn the complete version of it aand also has read 9 yin manuals fully (before Zhao Min stole it and give it to ZWJ). ZWJ also has given some of his pointers to ZZR to learn it slowly and start form the fundamentals of 9yin.

    ZZR is also very young and talented, we could see in the Bright Peak battel, he could see some weaknesses of other pugilists stances easily and tells how to beat it. Something that we dont see in MCF.

    ZWJ vs ZZR, come on, it is only a fight between with a man and his ex fiancee. Not a battle between 2 top pugilists in the jianghu.
    Did ZWJ return the 9yin manuals to ZZR? I guess not because by the time of SPW, Emei no longer has the 9yin manuals.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Did ZWJ return the 9yin manuals to ZZR? I guess not because by the time of SPW, Emei no longer has the 9yin manuals.
    In the few last tv drama version, as far i remember, 9yin manuals didn't returned to ZZR

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10-18-20, 11:05 AM
  2. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 06-29-20, 02:09 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-10-06, 03:36 AM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-10-06, 04:12 AM
  5. Shaolin Metal Finger vs. 9 Yin White Bone Claw
    By TaiHan in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-07-04, 06:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •