Shi Po Tian

[HuangYushi]

Any idea which era does Xia Ke Xing belong? From the TVB serial, there is a Wudang Sect. Sounds weird. Did this happen in the novel? Thanks.

Yes, there is a Wudang Sect in the novel, so it was not a concoction of the imaginative minds at TVB (although in general, the adaptation with Tony Leung was as far away from the novel as it could get).

Most readers agree that it takes place some time in the Ming Dynasty (after Smiling Proud Wanderer, some say), because Wudang was already established. However, in order to determine whether it comes before or after Smiling Proud Wanderer, one would have to look at the leaders of Shaolin and/or Wudang during that era. If the order of leadership could be ascertained, the position of Xia Ke Xing on the JY timeline can then be confirmed.

[kidd]

I feel that the once every XX years invitation of sect leaders to Xia Ke island plot make the story hard to fit into the novels chronology. This invitation is obviously a big thing. Every sect leader is afraid of receiving one. If XKX comes after XAJH, why there is no mention of Xia Ke island at all in XAJH (and also other stories that happen before XKX). I think that is why some readers feel that XKX belongs to an alternate universe.

[HuangYushi]

I feel that the once every XX years invitation of sect leaders to Xia Ke island plot make the story hard to fit into the novels chronology. This invitation is obviously a big thing. Every sect leader is afraid of receiving one. If XKX comes after XAJH, why there is no mention of Xia Ke island at all in XAJH (and also other stories that happen before XKX. I think that is why some readers feel that XKX belongs to an alternate universe.

Yes, the invitation happened at regular intervals, but there was a definite starting point. I'll try to work it out and let you know later.

[Xi Men Chui Xue]

Yes, there is a Wudang Sect in the novel, so it was not a concoction of the imaginative minds at TVB (although in general, the adaptation with Tony Leung was as far away from the novel as it could get).

Most readers agree that it takes place some time in the Ming Dynasty (after Smiling Proud Wanderer, some say), because Wudang was already established. However, in order to determine whether it comes before or after Smiling Proud Wanderer, one would have to look at the leaders of Shaolin and/or Wudang during that era. If the order of leadership could be ascertained, the position of Xia Ke Xing on the JY timeline can then be confirmed.

Strange. Don't you think so? Because if this happens in the Ming period, how could SPT be JY's no. 3 strongest hero (after Janitor Monk and DGQB) due to martial arts degradation theory? I am still puzzled. If that is the case, heroes during the DGSD like XF, XZ and DY should rank higher that him (5 Greats, maybe even ZWJ/ZSF is higher too). Well, just my 2 cents.

[bliss]

Strange. Don't you think so? Because if this happens in the Ming period, how could SPT be JY's no. 3 strongest hero (after Janitor Monk and DGQB) due to martial arts degradation theory? I am still puzzled. If that is the case, heroes during the DGSD like XF, XZ and DY should rank higher that him (5 Greats, maybe even ZWJ/ZSF is higher too). Well, just my 2 cents.

Bah ... Deterioration Theory is not fact and it very RARELY ever holds true. Deterioration Theory is based on the idea that certain martial arts and skills of various sects are lost or forgotten over the years which leads to a general degradation of the overall level of martial arts as time passes by over the centuries.

The biggest holes in the theory though are that many times, skills are refined and perfected which make them even better (ie. Xiao Feng and HL28Z) and that certain martial arts resurface after hundreds of years (Kuihua Bodian). Deterioration Theory only applies to explain the general decline in the OVERALL level of martial arts for the entire wulin due to most sects losing their strongest skills over the years (ie. 6 Mai Shenjian). It rarely applies to individuals and main characters since for the most part they discover or learn incredibly powerful skills that have been long lost or forgotten (ie. Shi Potian, Dongfang Bubai).

[Xi Men Chui Xue]

Bah ... Deterioration Theory is not fact and it very RARELY ever holds true. Deterioration Theory is based on the idea that certain martial arts and skills of various sects are lost or forgotten over the years which leads to a general degradation of the overall level of martial arts as time passes by over the centuries.

The biggest holes in the theory though are that many times, skills are refined and perfected which make them even better (ie. Xiao Feng and HL28Z) and that certain martial arts resurface after hundreds of years (Kuihua Bodian). Deterioration Theory only applies to explain the general decline in the OVERALL level of martial arts for the entire wulin due to most sects losing their strongest skills over the years (ie. 6 Mai Shenjian). It rarely applies to individuals and main characters since for the most part they discover or learn incredibly powerful skills that have been long lost or forgotten (ie. Shi Potian, Dongfang Bubai).

Any idea what skills did SPT acquire in the novel? I watched from TVB serial that he has learnt the Motian Shengong from XYK, Shaolin higher form of Neigong xinfa from the statues he got (not sure what it is), sabre skills from Snow Mountain granny that counteracts sword skills of Snow Mountain Sect and lastly, Xia Ke Xing's encrypted skills, Xia Ke Shengong? Is that correct? Not sure whether the names are correct though.

[HuangYushi]

Any idea what skills did SPT acquire in the novel? I watched from TVB serial that he has learnt the Motian Shengong from XYK, Shaolin higher form of Neigong xinfa from the statues he got (not sure what it is), sabre skills from Snow Mountain granny that counteracts sword skills of Snow Mountain Sect and lastly, Xia Ke Xing's encrypted skills, Xia Ke Shengong? Is that correct? Not sure whether the names are correct though.

If I remember right, he learnt all the skills listed above, except the Motian Shengong from Xie Yanke. (I don't think there's even a Motian Shengong, but I might be wrong). He learnt some Snow Mountain sword techniques as well while watching the Snow Mountain disciples practise/train after being captured by them.

[PJ]

To Kidd: Well, there is no mention of the Sun Moon Sect in Xia Ke Xin either, and I am sure that sect was a big deal in Xiao Ao Jiang Hu. The only link between XKX to the Jin Yong universe is the mention that Zhang Sanfeng had existed hundreds of years before XKX's story.

[HuangYushi]

I feel that the once every XX years invitation of sect leaders to Xia Ke island plot make the story hard to fit into the novels chronology. This invitation is obviously a big thing. Every sect leader is afraid of receiving one.

The Xiake invitation came once every 10 years, but it only started 20 years before Gouzazhong/Shi Potian reached adulthood. This was because GZZ/SPT was among the 3rd batch of invitees. Shortly after that, the island erupted and sank to the bottom of the sea.

If the 1st invitation took place after XAJH, then the people in XAJH would not have heard about it.

If we go by the time reference given by Qu Yang's discovery of the Guang Ling San zither score in XAJH (which was around 1425AD -- the thread on this disappeared during the Great Crash, but there's a copy of the article at wuxiapedia.com -- signup/login required, though), there would still be more than 200 years' worth of time for XKX to take place within the Ming Dynasty.

If XKX comes after XAJH, why there is no mention of Xia Ke island at all in XAJH (and also other stories that happen before XKX). I think that is why some readers feel that XKX belongs to an alternate universe.

Xiake Island was supposed to be very isolated and totally unknown. The owners, Long and Mu, found it by accident (if I remember right).

there is no mention of the Sun Moon Sect in Xia Ke Xin either, and I am sure that sect was a big deal in Xiao Ao Jiang Hu.

The Sun Moon Sect was a big deal under Ren Woxing and Dongfang Bubai, but after Ren Yingying took over, its focus changed. Xiang Wentian was unlike Ren Woxing or Dongfang Bubai, so he probably maintained Ren Yingying's direction for the sect when he took over from her. If XKX happened far enough down the line from XAJH, it would have been unnecessary to mention the Sun Moon Sect because there were no character or martial arts links to it.

[Xi Men Chui Xue]

If I remember right, he learnt all the skills listed above, except the Motian Shengong from Xie Yanke. (I don't think there's even a Motian Shengong, but I might be wrong). He learnt some Snow Mountain sword techniques as well while watching the Snow Mountain disciples practise/train after being captured by them.

Thanks!

Any idea what is the origin of Xia Ke Xing (the poem on the wall) and who actually wrote it? Also, is the higher Shaolin Inner Power Cultivation technique he acquired better than that of Yi Jing Jing? That is interesting. Probably, YJJ by then has become long lost or forgotten. Same goes as well for other powerful skills.

[HuangYushi]

Thanks!

You're welcome!

Any idea what is the origin of Xia Ke Xing (the poem on the wall) and who actually wrote it?

Well, the XKX poem actually exists in real life. It was written by the famous Tang Dynasty poet, Li Bai. You can get a translated version of the poem at wuxiapedia.com.

As for the person who actually carved the poem on the wall of the cave on Xiake Island, that we will probably never know. Even the owners of the island, Long and Mu, did not know who did it either.

Also, is the higher Shaolin Inner Power Cultivation technique he acquired better than that of Yi Jing Jing? That is interesting. Probably, YJJ by then has become long lost or forgotten. Same goes as well for other powerful skills.

I'm not sure about whether the Shaolin technique was better than the Yijin Jing. I'd have to go check it up.

[kidd]

After reading more of Xia Ke Xing, I found some more aspect of Shi Potian that was not apparent in the adaptations.

1) He has photographic memory. He never forgets what he has seen.
2) He is an extremely fast learner (this is partly like due to his photgraphic memory that allows him to remember a whole set of martial art only by watching it played out once).

Is this a common occurance? Does other main character in other Jin Yong novels also has this ability? Zhang Wu Ji seems to learn things pretty fast too (like he learn the QKDNY and Taichi Sword).

[Tazzy1972]

DY also for 6MSJ and LBWB was able to master it quite fast....

[ChronoReverse]

The other person I'm aware had true photographic memory is HR's mom in LOCH.

[kidd]

I'm reading chapter 10 now. The age issue in this novel (edition 2) is such a mess.

In the beginning of the story, SPT is said to be 12 to 13 years old. From the conversation Shi Qing and Min Rou has with the Snow Mountain people, we get to know that SZY was 15 years old 3 months ago from the beginning of the novel while Ah Xiu was 13 years old. Now in chapter 10, Jin Yong said that Ah Xiu is a few years younger than SPT. How can Ah Xiu be a few years younger than SPT?!!! A few months, yes, but a few years?!!!

And then, there is also Min Rou telling SPT that 'his' (she means SZY) little brother got kidnapped when he was only a month old and SZY himself just reach 1 year old.

Did Jin Yong correct this in his newest edition?

[kidd]

Shi Po Tian's list of names:

- Gou Zhang Zhong
- Shi Po Tian
- Da Zhong Zhi
- Shi Yi Dao
- Shi Zhong Jian

[HuangYushi]

Did Jin Yong correct this in his newest edition?

I'm reading the 3rd ed now. Some of the mistakes/inconsistencies in the earlier chapters (e.g. up to Chap 7) have been corrected, so JY may have had this age problem sorted out as well. I'll let you know when I get to Chap 10.

[kidd]

What is the correction in Chapter 7?

[Dimeron]

I'm reading chapter 10 now. The age issue in this novel (edition 2) is such a mess.

In the beginning of the story, SPT is said to be 12 to 13 years old. From the conversation Shi Qing and Min Rou has with the Snow Mountain people, we get to know that SZY was 15 years old 3 months ago from the beginning of the novel while Ah Xiu was 13 years old. Now in chapter 10, Jin Yong said that Ah Xiu is a few years younger than SPT. How can Ah Xiu be a few years younger than SPT?!!! A few months, yes, but a few years?!!!

And then, there is also Min Rou telling SPT that 'his' (she means SZY) little brother got kidnapped when he was only a month old and SZY himself just reach 1 year old.

Did Jin Yong correct this in his newest edition?

From my understanding, I thought they were twins. (never remembered any where it explicitly stated the age difference between Zhungyu and ZhungJian) It is possible that since SPT had to work for most of his food, he could be malnourished, or developed late, thus looking like 13 year old when he's really 15.

[kidd]

They are not twins.

Chapter 13:

石破天走到她的跟前，闵柔手指大石，要他坐在身侧，说道：“孩子，那年你刚满周岁不久，有个女贼来害你妈妈。你爹爹不在家，你妈刚生你弟弟还没满月，没力气跟那女贼对打。那女贼恶得很，不但要杀你妈妈，还要杀你，杀你弟弟。”