KFBD Origins and Feng Qingyang's early years, Translation of Small Excerpts from XAJH

[bliss]

We've all seen the "Sunflower Sutra" in action in the guise of Dongfang Bubai. He practiced this art for about 12 years and became quite invincible, clearly several notches higher than the next strongest fighters in XAJH (Linghu Chong, Ren Woxing, Xiang Wentian, Ren Yingying). Dongfang Bubai could have pretty much wiped all four of them out if it hadn't been for Yang Lianting being used as a hostage.

One of the things we have to remember though, is that the version of Sunflower Sutra that DFBB practiced WASN'T even the original complete version. The complete original was most likely even stronger. Anyway here is a partial translation of one of the chapters in which Fang Zheng Abbot explains the origins of Sunflower Sutra to Linghu Chong.

Excerpts from Chapter 30, Xiao Ao Jiang Hu

Fang Zheng: "For a long time in wulin, it has been said that this Sunflower Sutra originated from the previous dynasty, created by an official of the Imperial Court."

Linghu Chong: "A government official?"

Fang Zheng: "The government official was a eunuch. The name of this master is forever lost. In addition, just why exactly such a highly skilled master became a eunuch in the imperial court will never be known to us now. What we do know is that the martial arts inscribed in that sutra is deep and profound to the extreme. For the past 300 some odd years, no one person has been able to take possession of the sutra and master its arts. About a hundred years ago, the sutra came into the possession of the Fujian Shaolin Temple. At that time, the abbot of Shaolin was Reverend Hongxie. He was an extremely wise and intelligent person, which was reflected in his vast understanding of martial arts. Hongxie was the perfect candidate who possessed enough talent to master the sutra's profound martial arts. But it has been said that Hongxie's students have claimed that their master never mastered the Sunflower Sutra. Moreover, they have said that even after studying it for quite some time, Reverend Honexie never even began to practice it at all."

Linghu Chong: "It must be because there was some secret part of the sutra that was missing, that even such a talent like Reverend Hongxie wasn't able to fully comprehend the Sunflower Sutra without it."

Fang Zheng: "That might be a possibility. However, me and the Old Daoist have never had the fortune of encountering this Sutra. Not saying that we would dare to practice its arts, but perhaps seeing what kind of profound and mystical writings are in it would be interesting."

Chong Xu: "Old Reverend you are being affected by worldly desires. We are practitioners of the martial arts, because we haven't had the chance to see the sutra we can say this. But if we actually did get to see it, most likely we would be losing sleep and not eating, tirelessly studying the sutra's words and meaning. The result would be that not only would we mistakenly waste our cultivation, but it would lead our mind to endless troubles and confusion. Because we haven't had the fortune to have seen the sutra, I would say that we are the ones who are truly fortunate."

Fang Zheng: "Old Taoist you are right. Old Reverend is still not free of worldly longings. How shameful it is." and continues "Huashan had two martial brothers who happened to be visiting the Shaolin Temple also happened to have caught sight of the Sunflower Sutra there."

Linghu Chong: "Because the sutra was so important, Shaolin must have taken measures not to allow anyone to see the Sutra. Those two martial brothers of Huashan must have secretly sneaked glances at the Sutra."

Fang Zheng continued: "Because of the urgency of the situation, those two brothers couldn't spend time to study the sutra in depth during their stay at Shaolin. So the two divided up the work and each read and memorized one part of the Sunflower Sutra. Afterwards, they returned to Huashan and together studied and discussed each part that they read. But what happened was that the two martial brothers disagreed on a lot of what was written in the Sutra. When they tried putting their parts together, a lot of it did not make sense. Each believed what he read and memorized was correct, what he interpreted was correct, and the other person was mistaken. However, from the individual parts that each one of them memorized, neither one could come up with or practice anything substantial either. The two brothers used to be very close and were the best of friends. However after this clash of interests, they became very heated rivals and this was the cause of the split of Huashan into Qi and Sword factions."

Linghu Chong: "Those two martial brothers must be Yue Su and Cai Zifeng." Yue Su was the founder of Huashan's Qi Faction and Cai Zifeng was the founder of Huashan's Sword Faction. The splitting of the two sects of Huashan was a thing of the distant past."

Fang Zheng: "The incident with Yue and Cai was soon discovered by Reverend Hongxie. He understood that although the martial arts philosophies inside the Sunflower Sutra were profound and deep, they were also brutal, ferocious and dangerous. He stated that the first step was the most difficult step in learning the arts of the Sunflower Sutra. After the first step, learning the rest was relatively simple. All the martial arts in this world are relatively easy to learn in the beginning and get increasingly difficult as one progresses further. The Sunflower Sutra was the exact opposite. The first step was extremely difficult and if even a small mistake was made when training, if one didn't die from it one would certainly be severely injured. So therefore he sent his disciple Reverend Duyuan to try to convince the two Huashan brothers to stop trying to practice the Sunflower Sutra as it could be extremely harmful to them."

Linghu Chong: "Could it be that the two Huashan brothers had ill intentions toward Reverend Duyuan when he tried to coerce them into giving up the Sutra?"

Fang Zheng: "No this wasn't the case. They were actually very courteous to Reverend Duyuan. On the one hand, they apologized and one the other hand, they asked for Duyuan's advice on the writings of the Sutra. They figured since Duyuan was Hongxie's disciple, he would be well versed in the Sunflower Sutra but it turns out Duyuan had never once before heard or encountered the Sutra at all. Because Hongxie himself never really understood the writings of the Sutra he saw no reason to teach its writings to Duyuan. At the time, Duyuan didn't really understand the verses from the Sutra that they recited to him either. He just casually explained the writings as they recited, and couldn't help but secrely memorize what they recited either. Duyuan was also an exceptional martial arts master as well as an extremely wise and intelligent person. Through his logical deductions of what the two brothers recited, the explanations he gave actually fit and made sense."

Linghu Chong: "So it turns out, Duyuan was learning the script of the Sutra from two brothers as they recited."

Fang Zheng: "Correct. But originally, what the two brothers recited was not very much. But after hearing how the explanations Duyuan gave made sense, they couldn't resist the temptation and invited him to stay at Huashan for 8 more days. But after this visit, Duyuan never returned to the Shaolin temple."

Linghu Chong: "Never returned? Where did he go in that time?"

Fang Zheng: "No one knows for sure. But not long afterwards, Reverend Hongxie received a letter from Duyuan stating that his attachments to the world were too great and he decided to leave the Buddhist realm and renounce his monkhood. He was also very ashamed and couldn't face his master anymore."

"From that incident on, there was much suspicion and distrust between Shaolin and Huashan. The news that Huashan disciples had secretly studied the Sunflower Sutra had also leaked to the public and soon after, the Ten Elders of the Demon Sect attacked Huashan."

"This incident happened before your master was even born. The Elders of the Demon Sect attacked Huashan with the intention of stealing the Sunflower Sutra. It was because of this incident that Taishan, Songshan, Huashan, Hengshan and Hengshan formed an alliance. After receiving word, the other 4 sects came to Huashan's aid. A bloody battle occurred on Huashan, and all ten of the Demon Sect Elders were badly wounded. Yue and Cai also lost their lives in this battle and as a result, the version of the Sutra that they penned was snatched away by the Demon Sect. Five years later, the Demon Sect returned to attack, but this time they were readily prepared. They had comprehensively understood the sword arts of the Five Peaks Sect and had also thought up counter moves for breaking all the sword arts of the Five Peak Sects. Old Taoist and I believe that even though the martial arts of the Ten Elders were great, to be able to comprehend and counter all the sword arts of the Five Peaks Sect, the Sunflower Sutra must have played some role in giving them such insight into martial arts theories. The second battle, the Five Peaks Sects suffered great losses. Many great masters lost their lives and since that day many of the intricate and complex sword arts of those Sects were lost as well. However, those ten Demon Sect Elders also never were able to escape Huashan."

...skipping some parts about where LHC explains about how he discovered the cave at Huashan and the fate of those Ten Edlers...

Fang Zheng: "My younger martial brother Fang Sheng once had the opportunity to meet Grandmaster Feng and had once been saved by him. He tells me that your sword technique was taught by Grandmaster Feng. We know that during the time when Huashan split into two sects, Grandmaster Feng had already decided to leave Huashan to be on his own."

Chong Xu: "It has been said that during the time when Huashan split into two and were fighting amongst themselves, Grandmaster Feng was away in the process of getting married. The Sword faction of Huashan was being beaten severely and was suffering immense losses. The Qi faction was aware that Grandmaster Feng's sword techniques were profound and deep, no one in the Qi faction was a match for him. Grandmaster Feng finally realized the marriage was a hoax. The Qi faction had hired a prostitute and told her to pretend to be a lady from an esteemed background looking to be married. In fact, it was an elaborate ploy to draw Grandmaster Feng away from Huashan during the battle between the two factions. When he went to see the family he was to marry, everyone was missing and he realized that he had been tricked. Rumor has it that Grandmaster Feng was so extremely angry that he cut off his own head."

...goes on to explain how Duyuan became Lin Yuantao, Lin Pingzhi's grandfather, using Pixie Sword technique, etc etc...

Interestingly, it is suggested by Fang Zheng that Lin Yuantao's Pixie Sword Technique might be stronger than the one practiced by DFBB. This is because Duyuan Monk's interpretation of what the two Hushan elders recited was much better than what the two wrote down, which was the one which eventually fell into the hands of the Demon Sect and DFBB.

Several other things: In the beginning Fang Zheng states that KFBD was created by a eunuch some 300+ years ago from the PREVIOUS dynasty. It is generally accepted that XAJH takes place during the MING dynasty as Yue Lingsan talks about the first emperor being Xu Yuanzhang who was the founder of the Ming Dynasty. This means that the creator of KFBD existed and served as a government eunuch in the YUAN dynasty.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

This person SHOULD have been alive during HSDS which took place during the mid-late Yuan Dynasty. The Yuan Dynasty was only 90 some odd years long. If this person existed before HSDS, KFBD should have at least been floating around wulin as well. So ... any guesses as to who the creator of KFBD might be?

Anyway, thought you would all enjoy that nice lengthy history section from XAJH. Its very insightful and gives a lot of background info on otherwise shady details of XAJH (KFBD origins and Feng Qingyang early life). Enjoy!

[CC]

[QUOTE=bliss
Interestingly, it is suggested by Fang Zheng that Lin Yuantao's Pixie Sword Technique might be stronger than the one practiced by DFBB. This is because Duyuan Monk's interpretation of what the two Hushan elders recited was much better than what the two wrote down, which was the one which eventually fell into the hands of the Demon Sect and DFBB.
)[/QUOTE]

Thats what I always puzzled about too.

Since Lin Yuantu was actually the person who created that manual DFBB learned, his own interpretation must be _at_least_ as good if not better.

Looking at how fast LPZ improved and that he was never described as a martial arts talent and comparing him to DFBB who studied 10+ years and was a talent, it just might be possible that Bi Xie was the most powerful art.

[Dennis Chen]

Correct me if I'm wrong. In a way, the Sunflower Manual of DFBB is better because it wasn't confined to 72 moves whereas Bi Xie Jian Fa was. It was these repitition of moves that allowed Linghu Chong to fight off Yue Buqun and Ling Pinzhi.

[CC]

Correct me if I'm wrong. In a way, the Sunflower Manual of DFBB is better because it wasn't confined to 72 moves whereas Bi Xie Jian Fa was. It was these repitition of moves that allowed Linghu Chong to fight off Yue Buqun and Ling Pinzhi.

The techniques of the Sunflower Manual was not described in detail. Maybe it was just inner energy cultivation to boost strength and speed.

I would stick my neck out and say that Bi Xie gave the same speed if not more, and if you already have the speed and strength, you can use that inner energy to power other techniques, even DG9J. For example, when YBQ threw that needle to blind ZLC. Needle throwing wasn't part of Bi Xie Jian Fa. He just used Bi Xie power behind it.

I would say its the fault of LPZ and YBQ. They weren't good enough martial artists to see beyond the 72 moves.

[JigSta]

Thanks for that in-depth piece bliss. I had always thought that Pixie sword was inferior to DFBB's version. Now it seems like it's the other way around.
I have no ideas on the creator though...

[Tazzy1972]

ZWJ and ZM??

[SkineePanda]

Fang Zheng: "For a long time in wulin, it has been said that this Sunflower Sutra originated from the previous dynasty, created by an official of the Imperial Court."

When Fang Zheng said previous dynasty, could he be refering to the Song instead of Yuan? Since it wasn't too very long ago that the Hans drove out the Mongols, and Hans didn't really like to admit or accept that the Yuan was a actual Chinese dynasty. Probably think of the Mongols as a occupying army instead.

And he also said 300 years, I think SOD probably takes place in the 1500's when the Ming was already well-established, and no mention of a Mongol threat(1300's-1400's) or Manchu threat(1600's). So it still takes the origin of KFBD back to 1200's-ish.

[bliss]

When Fang Zheng said previous dynasty, could he be refering to the Song instead of Yuan? Since it wasn't too very long ago that the Hans drove out the Mongols, and Hans didn't really like to admit or accept that the Yuan was a actual Chinese dynasty. Probably think of the Mongols as a occupying army instead.

And he also said 300 years, I think SOD probably takes place in the 1500's when the Ming was already well-established, and no mention of a Mongol threat(1300's-1400's) or Manchu threat(1600's). So it still takes the origin of KFBD back to 1200's-ish.

I think you're probably right. For a long time, the Han Chinese never really acknowledged the Mongol rule as a legitimate dynasty. It was most likely the Song Dynasty then, probably towards the end in the era between ROCH and HSDS.

[Anonymous]

From this reading, Fang Zhang "head monk" is "not enlightened" as experts commented.

Fang Zheng: "Old Taoist you are right. Old Reverend is still not free of worldly longings. How shameful it is." and continues "Huashan had two martial brothers who happened to be visiting the Shaolin Temple also happened to have caught sight of the Sunflower Sutra there."

[Ren Wo Xing]

If he was -perfect-, he would've passed into non-existence already

His flaws are tiny, compared to that of the TL8B abbot, or the YTTLJ abbot.

[bliss]

From this reading, Fang Zhang "head monk" is "not enlightened" as experts commented.

I guess some of the context is lost in the translation. He was half-sarcastic, half-self-mocking when he said that. Well at least he is blunt and honest about it and not a hypocrite.

[kamii]

cool thx alot bliss

i actually knew alot of what u had wrote because it seemed to be mention in the series, as i was reading i was just remembering the scenes from the series lol. I knew the bits and pieces but everything is clear now

thx alot

[shanghai girls are hot]

in the serial, didn't they mention the Pie Xie Jian Fa was the partial version of the complete KFBD.

[Zhuge Liang]

Those HuaShan disciples just weren't willing to do what it took to learn KFBD. :P

Also another thing i don't understand is why does Feng Qing Yang hate YBQ so much? YBQ is a jerk but did he have any part in FQY being tricked away from HuaShan? What was his beef with YBQ?

[shanghai girls are hot]

Those HuaShan disciples just weren't willing to do what it took to learn KFBD. :P

Also another thing i don't understand is why does Feng Qing Yang hate YBQ so much? YBQ is a jerk but did he have any part in FQY being tricked away from HuaShan? What was his beef with YBQ?

YBQ is part of the Qi faction and doesn't want LHC to practice any unorthodox HuaShan sword technique maybe? FQY knows that LHC is a talented and has great potential but YBQ doesn't let him reach his full potential?

[kamii]

YBQ is part of the Qi faction and doesn't want LHC to practice any unorthodox HuaShan sword technique maybe? FQY knows that LHC is a talented and has great potential but YBQ doesn't let him reach his full potential?

i think it is just that YBQ can't teach and that's why he does not let LHC get to his full potential, or maybe he just recons that he doens't recognise LHC as having the potential to learn higher level martial arts.....

[Anonymous]

Now that Fang Zhang is not enlightened, then it also means that his YJJ [vs. DGSD YJJ] may not be fully mastered: with his "puny" state of mind, he cannot understand all the "enlightened" [YJJ] principles therein. [ie. GJ is considered enlightened as JY states that GJ mastered during beginning of ROCH.]

[Vicious]

Now that Fang Zhang is not enlightened, then it also means that his YJJ [vs. DGSD YJJ] may not be fully mastered: with his "puny" state of mind, he cannot understand all the "enlightened" [YJJ] principles therein. [ie. GJ is considered enlightened as JY states that GJ mastered during beginning of ROCH.]

GJ is considered enlightened and Fang Zhang isn't because he still wanted to take a look at the most powerful manuscript ever in his lifetime? Sounds like a far fetched comparsion to me.

[CC]

IMHO, Fang Zheng is as enlighthened as Shaolin abbots go in the JY world.

Wanting to take a look at supposedly the most powerful martial arts manuscript might detract him a bit from the 'perfect' state. But if he was 'perfect' he'd be Buddha or something like sweeper monk anyway.

I think FCY hates YBQ not for the way he teaches kung fu, but the way he portrays himself as the 'Gentleman Sword'.

[kyss of the sword]

FCY looks down on all the five mountain sects, because he doesn't feel any of them match his skills or personality. YBQ doesn't stand above the other leaders in contempt.