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Thread: XZ's vulnerability to weapon attack

  1. #1
    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Default XZ's vulnerability to weapon attack

    XZ, being the one to receive internal energy transfer from 3 Xiao Yao Elders, was regarded as having a powerful body shield. Even JMZ's attack could not make a dent on his body. Yet a few times in this SPCNet forum I remember reading opinions that XZ still could not withstand weapon attack, such as sword attack for example. Is that really true? Was XZ really vulnerable to weapon attack? My memory is really failing me, but I can't remember XZ being vulnerable to weapon attack.

    In DOMD, Jiu Nan thought WXB mastered a Shaolin body protection technique when her sword attack on WXB's body was bounced. Of course she did not by then know that WXB was wearing a protection vest. But still she seemed to acknowledge that such a skill (making oneself immune to weapon attack) could exist in the era. So, why can't such a skill exist in DGSD era?

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Mei Chaofeng and Chen Xuanfeng both supposedly learned Shaolin's Iron Cloth/Golden Bell techniques, making them all but immune to weapons (except in critical areas, like in the case where Guo Jing stabbed Xuanfeng).

    BUT, even in that case, Mei Chaofeng was still careful to avoid the sword of the 7th freak (the girl), in the book. So I think this strongly implies that a sword slash is still damaging to someone, even with that sort of martial arts level.

    In other words, sword damage (and maybe Liumai Shenjian?) is 'slashing' damage, whereas most palms/fists/weapons are kinetic damage. There are various martial arts to protect against kinetic damage (and many people with internal strength have 'autodefense' against it, like ZWJ, XZ, etc.), but few to none which protect against slashing damage.

    That might be, incidentally, one of the reasons why the sword is considered the best weapon in Wuxia.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    [{quote=ren wo xiang}Mei Chaofeng and Chen Xuanfeng both supposedly learned Shaolin's Iron Cloth/Golden Bell techniques, making them all but immune to weapons (except in critical areas, like in the case where Guo Jing stabbed Xuanfeng).

    BUT, even in that case, Mei Chaofeng was still careful to avoid the sword of the 7th freak (the girl), in the book. So I think this strongly implies that a sword slash is still damaging to someone, even with that sort of martial arts level.

    In other words, sword damage (and maybe Liumai Shenjian?) is 'slashing' damage, whereas most palms/fists/weapons are kinetic damage. There are various martial arts to protect against kinetic damage (and many people with internal strength have 'autodefense' against it, like ZWJ, XZ, etc.), but few to none which protect against slashing damage.

    That might be, incidentally, one of the reasons why the sword is considered the best weapon in Wuxia]

    inner energy can be resisted or even neatralised ifyour inner energy is high enough or if you have a special technique to do so, it the force that does the damage , blades are diferent, it's the sharpness. with inner energy it does more damage and cuts deeper, but even without inner strenght(like LHC) you can still hurt others. only with some special skills that make your skin though as iron or creates a qi force field on your skin to repel weapons ,can you avoid sword injuries, but there's a limit. like shaolin diamond armour (top)skill creates a force field that repels qi as well as swords(weapons), the bronzeman skill or iron vest skills(lesser) makes your skin tough as iron but precious weapons that can cut iron and gold can still hurt you.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    I believe XZ has the ability to counter the weapon. However, when someone thrusts a sword towads him or anything that has sharp edge, it is likely to hurt him.
    Just a simple physics law, P/A = stress, when A is minimum, the stress gonna be maximum.
    So I think, since YG's sword is so thick, it might damage him less.
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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Inner energy seems to help resist blunt kinetic force, but not cutting force. There's people, for example, who can get hit a lot with sticks/maces and not suffer too much damage, but few to none who can say the same w/a sword. And even after learning Iron Cloth/Golden Bell, Mei Chaofeng was STILL wary of the 7th freaks sword.

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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    because she doesn't have that much power like Xu Zhu or her Golden cloth martial art was not that good yet.
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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Just a thought. In real life, practitioners of hard external force (like iron shirt and golden bell) have a certain invulnerability towards sharp weapons like knifes, swords and spears as proven in their demos. Food for thought.

    So, someone like XZ, if he learnt some sort of protection skill like iron shirt and golden bell should be able to resist almost anything.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Yeah, but we're going by Jinyong canon. I know about 'real life' Jing Gang Zhao, Tie Bu Shan.

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    So, if someone who has mastered Bi Xie Jian Fa, even if they have lower internal power would be able to kill Xu Zhu based on speed alone.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Maybe......

    There's really too little instances to judge in the Jinyong universe. That I know of, only three people actually practiced protection skills (as in skills devised solely for protection).

    Mei Chaofeng, Chen Xuanfeng, and the monk guy from YTTLJ.

    Mei Chaofeng was afraid of the sword, Chen Xuanfeng didn't make enough of an appearance, and the Shaolin monk's abilities were only tested against Xie Xun's "Qi Shang Quan", another palm/fist type attack, and not a sword.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 12-09-04 at 02:11 AM.

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Mei Chaofeng and Chen Xuanfeng both supposedly learned Shaolin's Iron Cloth/Golden Bell techniques, making them all but immune to weapons (except in critical areas, like in the case where Guo Jing stabbed Xuanfeng).
    Where on Earth did Chan Yeun Fung and Mui Chiu Fung crib Shaolin skills from? Was East Heretic Wong Yerk See stealing skills from Shaolin?

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Definitely Xu Zhu was more vulnerable to blades then fists/palms/shoes.

    But his inner energy was still a potent defence against blades from more normal fighters (JMZ might have powered his dagger with his own immense energy). Look at the fight between Zuo Bufan and Xu Zhu.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    When Zuo ambushed XZ from behind with his sword, XZ's Bei Ming energy shield managed to push the sword aside and hold it back a bit and it only resulted in a long cut on his shirt, not his body in two pieces or a hole going through his body. Still, it was lucky that he reacted in time to avoid that attack. His Bei Ming energy shield helped but only that much.

    ZWJ had incredible energy shield compared to those in his time and he could comfortably take their palm/fist attacks no worries, but if it was a weapon (as shown in various situations) he would dodge it quick smart.
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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    [{quote=Ren Wo Xing}Mei Chaofeng and Chen Xuanfeng both supposedly learned Shaolin's Iron Cloth/Golden Bell techniques, making them all but immune to weapons (except in critical areas, like in the case where Guo Jing stabbed Xuanfeng]
    [{quote=ken cheng}Where on Earth did Chan Yeun Fung and Mui Chiu Fung crib Shaolin skills from? Was East Heretic Wong Yerk See stealing skills from Shaolin]

    there are a few skills in wuxia that make you immune to weapons. shaolin has iron vest skill, brozenmen skill and diamond armour. iron vest makes your skin as tought as iron but the acupoints are still vernable, brozenman skill is more advanced with only a hidden weak spot while diamond armour(top skill) uses a breath of qi to create a force field that can turn your force against you.iron vest and brozenman skill can be beaten if your force is powerful enough to shatter iron.

    iron vest skill also exist outside shaolin and there are different version of it. mei chaofeng's method was improved by haung yaoshi. golden bell armour comes from the western realm.(kunlun mountains and mongolia)it's similar to shaolin's brozenman skill but more superior.

    in Xiao Li Fei Dao(sentimental dagger, ruthless sword) dagger li's driver ‘Iron Armor Golden Steel’ Tie Zhuan Jia had to be a virgin to practise his impentratable skill.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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