Return of the Condor Heroes 2006 《神雕侠侣》 - Huang Xiaoming, Liu Yifei

[ChineseChik525]

I hate double-posting, but everyone seems to be ignoring my question about the number of episodes actually aired.

I have more questions, also. One is a language question, since I'm listening to Mandarin-language audio lessons currently. My language lessons tell me that the word for "Why?" should be pronounced with a W sound like the sound in "way" in English.

But I've noticed in watching ROCH that when Huang Xiao Ming says it in several scenes, it sounds like he's using a V sound, as in "vagrant". Is that a regional accent?

yes, i think it depends on who is saying it and the accent. most people in regular mandarin (such as people in beijing) speak it with a "v", i believe. i do.

[sniffles]

yes, i think it depends on who is saying it and the accent. most people in regular mandarin (such as people in beijing) speak it with a "v", i believe. i do.

Thanks! I was watching Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain and noticed the actor playing Tian Guinong says it that way, too.

I wish I'd discovered ROCH '06 when it was new. Now I'm excited to discuss it with other fans, and everyone else has already talked about everything I want to talk about.

This thread is intimidatingly huge!

[JamesG]

Thanks! I wish I'd discovered ROCH '06 when it was new. Now I'm excited to discuss it with other fans, and everyone else has already talked about everything I want to talk about.

This thread is intimidatingly huge!

This thread got so big because of the high level of anticipation for it and the many delays that occurred before it finally was released. Then the many things that were disappointing [mainly the editing and the producer/director not using a suitable teenage actor for the young Yang Guo] resulted in much comment. Then there was the pro vs con LYF as XLN debate. This thread took on a life of it's own.

[sniffles]

This thread got so big because of the high level of anticipation for it and the many delays that occurred before it finally was released. Then the many things that were disappointing [mainly the editing and the producer/director not using a suitable teenage actor for the young Yang Guo] resulted in much comment. Then there was the pro vs con LYF as XLN debate. This thread took on a life of it's own.

I think this is the longest forum thread I've ever seen. Most of the other forums I belong to have a limit on the maximum number of posts before a thread is shut down.

Did any of the other tv adaptations of ROCH cast a teen actor as the teen YG? I've not seen another complete version - I've seen a little of the '83 ROCH and don't recall a teen. If I remember right it went straight from YG as a child to Andy Lau as YG, though Andy was pretty young then. I've read the reviews here of other versions and seem to recall complaints about Louis Koo playing a teenager, too.

Actually I thought that though HXM's performance was a bit childish, his appearance was mostly okay (he looks younger than he is, at least to me). And on reflection, it doesn't seem odd to me that YG would be a bit immature - after all, look at the way he was brought up. He's a homeless orphan, then he's "adopted" by a crazy person, and then he gets a sort of foster family who don't trust him and is sent away to school, and after that he lives in a tomb with an emotionless teenaged girl as his only company.

On another topic: Anyone know anyplace where I can get a complete cast list translated into English? Or information about the shooting locations (also in English)? I love behind-the-scenes info. It's too bad that most overseas DVDs don't include special features the way American DVDs often do.

[JamesG]

On another topic: Anyone know anyplace where I can get a complete cast list translated into English? Or information about the shooting locations (also in English)? I love behind-the-scenes info. It's too bad that most overseas DVDs don't include special features the way American DVDs often do.

Here's a fairly complete list:
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Return_of_...or_Heroes_2006

[ChineseChik525]

Thanks! I was watching Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain and noticed the actor playing Tian Guinong says it that way, too.

I wish I'd discovered ROCH '06 when it was new. Now I'm excited to discuss it with other fans, and everyone else has already talked about everything I want to talk about.

This thread is intimidatingly huge!

no problem

and yeah i just noticed how long this thread is! doesnt it have a limit?

[sniffles]

Here's a fairly complete list:
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Return_of_...or_Heroes_2006

Thanks again, JamesG!! I hadn't thought to look at d-addicts. D'oh!

[kandie]

i regret buying this one , its good watching it one time

[NuDaFu]

OMG! This thread is still going! I was part of it in the early production days.

@sniffles: I know how you feel, I recently got into Korea's period drama Seo Dong Yo which had aired in 2005...so much to discuss with little response...

[gqonmars2]

I saw this great img of XLN from wuxiasociety; Xiao_Gongzhu's avatar..
I think its so so cool.

$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://files.myopera.com/gqfrommars/files/xln.gif')

Thought that I share.

[sniffles]

I saw this great img of XLN from wuxiasociety; Xiao_Gongzhu's avatar..
I think its so so cool.

$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://files.myopera.com/gqfrommars/files/xln.gif')

Thought that I share.

Nice.

Just don't show it to resident:alien. He's a LYF hater.

I actually love all the images available in this thread. I now have a wonderful slideshow of ROCH images as my screensaver, plus a gorgeous wallpaper, thanks to all the folks who kindly posted images.

[ann_fang]

I don't think that resident: alien hates LYF. He just couldn't see any talent. Apperently, he worships quality as much as suggar and sunnysnow and some others do.
I myself think that LYF has a great talent. She has a great talent in creating phenominal fake news on/ about herself. Yes, I defenitly admit she is a great entertainer with a huge talent.

HXM is a good actor. Just the script was so so. But I enjoyed ROCH. Hope you guys can do it, too.

[NuDaFu]

I don't think that resident: evil hates LYF. He just couldn't see any talent. Apperently, he worships quality as much as suggar and sunnysnow and some others do.
I myself think that LYF has a great talent. She has a great talent in creating phenominal fake news on/ about herself. Yes, I defenitly admit she is a great entertainer with a huge talent.

HXM is a good actor. Just the script was so so. But I enjoyed ROCH. Hope you guys can do it, too.

I believe some people express themselves in a very 'extremist' way, I imagine this may the case with resident: evil's impressions of LYF, but I don't think there is anything wrong with those who appreciate quality.

On one hand, you say LYF and HXM are both great acting talents, and then on the other, quality doesn't seem so important. Sounds rather contraindicating, because the implication is that LYF and HXM are really not very high quality actors but should be appreciated anyway?

I thought LYF was great as XLN, but not in any other role I've seen her in...no need to elaborate here because you liked her performance too.

HXM however, overacted except in a few scenes near the end. There is a specific blend in rhythm, pitch of voice, of body language, that of which creates the charisma to a performance I believe. HXM is like a singer who is great as an 'alto' but poor as a 'soprano', meaning, he does well in sad/quiet scenes but highly emotional ones are just too extreme.

[ChineseChik525]

I believe some people express themselves in a very 'extremist' way, I imagine this may the case with resident: evil's impressions of LYF, but I don't think there is anything wrong with those who appreciate quality.

On one hand, you say LYF and HXM are both great acting talents, and then on the other, quality doesn't seem so important. Sounds rather contraindicating, because the implication is that LYF and HXM are really not very high quality actors but should be appreciated anyway?

I thought LYF was great as XLN, but not in any other role I've seen her in...no need to elaborate here because you liked her performance too.

HXM however, overacted except in a few scenes near the end. There is a specific blend in rhythm, pitch of voice, of body language, that of which creates the charisma to a performance I believe. HXM is like a singer who is great as an 'alto' but poor as a 'soprano', meaning, he does well in sad/quiet scenes but highly emotional ones are just too extreme.

he did overact extremely in roch, especially in the scenes where he is supposedly "younger". too much yelling, etc.
on the other hand, i think he did a pretty good job in the new shanghai bund =)

[sniffles]

I believe some people express themselves in a very 'extremist' way, I imagine this may the case with resident: evil's impressions of LYF, but I don't think there is anything wrong with those who appreciate quality.

On one hand, you say LYF and HXM are both great acting talents, and then on the other, quality doesn't seem so important. Sounds rather contraindicating, because the implication is that LYF and HXM are really not very high quality actors but should be appreciated anyway?

I thought LYF was great as XLN, but not in any other role I've seen her in...no need to elaborate here because you liked her performance too.

HXM however, overacted except in a few scenes near the end. There is a specific blend in rhythm, pitch of voice, of body language, that of which creates the charisma to a performance I believe. HXM is like a singer who is great as an 'alto' but poor as a 'soprano', meaning, he does well in sad/quiet scenes but highly emotional ones are just too extreme.

I thought LYF and HXM were both good overall, but I agree partly with your assessment of HXM's performance in some of the more emotional scenes. Sometimes I didn't mind his over-the-top screaming, but on other occasions it was a bit too much. Still, I like him. YG does do a lot of shouting and emoting in the book.

Oddly, though my fiancee and I usually agree on most actors and tv shows, he can't stand this one. He says HXM's performance as YG is just too cocky for his taste.

[ann_fang]

I believe some people express themselves in a very 'extremist' way, I imagine this may the case with resident: evil's impressions of LYF, but I don't think there is anything wrong with those who appreciate quality.

On one hand, you say LYF and HXM are both great acting talents, and then on the other, quality doesn't seem so important. Sounds rather contraindicating, because the implication is that LYF and HXM are really not very high quality actors but should be appreciated anyway?

I thought LYF was great as XLN, but not in any other role I've seen her in...no need to elaborate here because you liked her performance too.

HXM however, overacted except in a few scenes near the end. There is a specific blend in rhythm, pitch of voice, of body language, that of which creates the charisma to a performance I believe. HXM is like a singer who is great as an 'alto' but poor as a 'soprano', meaning, he does well in sad/quiet scenes but highly emotional ones are just too extreme.

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood me. When did I say that LYF is a great acting talent? You should read my earlier post again and this time make sure you know what I intented to say. And to say it clearly : I never said that quality is not important. Again sorry for not being clearly. What did I think? How could I expect others to understand my way of being ironic.

[sniffles]

So, directing this question at anyone, if you enjoyed this series what were some of your favorite moments? I know this may have been discussed already but this thread is so huge I've only made it through about half of it so far.

My personal favorite moments:
When GJ brings YG to Quan Zhen, at one point he picks up the young YG and carries the boy on his shoulder. Also when GJ leaves YG at QZJ and YG runs and grabs his uncle, GJ picks him up while YG is still hugging him and carries the boy back over to the QZ masters. I thought these two sequences were a great way of showing how much GJ cared for YG.

When YG and XLN are reunited at Da Xing Guan. I liked the way the director shot that sequence where they're sitting in the meadow talking. It was original and sweet to have some of YG's dialogue done while he's got his head pressed against XLN's bosom.

At the heroes' contest when YG is fighting HD and fakes him out with the Jade Bee Needles. I like the way YG acts so cocky. It makes me laugh every time I see it. My fiancee hates that scene for the same reason.

When YG announces his intention to marry XLN and he and GJ argue, the scene is so fraught with emotion that it's hard to watch. Both actors did a great job of conveying that intensity. GJ really convinces me that he's terribly hurt by YG's behavior.

The whole Passionless Valley sequence is good, but I especially like the scene when YG spits up blood and begs XLN to acknowledge him. I liked it that the blood got all over his face, like he spit it out really violently and then didn't care that he had blood all over him. He goes through the whole remainder of the scene and the fight with Fan Yiweng with blood on his face. I also liked it that HXM said his lines in a very hoarse voice afterward, as if he really was suffering.

I was pretty happy with the fight sequences overall. I especially like when YG is trying to convince the Wu brothers to forget about GF. HXM looked particularly good when YG is demonstrating his Jade Flute Swordplay to the Wu brothers.

When GF and YG fight and she cuts off his arm is another scene I thought was played well. YG could perhaps have seemed a bit more apologetic to GF about telling the Wu brothers that he and GF were engaged, but the scene was played as YG being ill from the double poisoning, so he's probably not in the best mood for the conversation. They way they shot GF cutting off his arm was a bit cliched, but it works well enough. And I liked it that when GJ comes into the room and sees the severed arm on the floor he's so shocked he literally falls over backward.

I'm a sucker for the romantic scenes, so I love the scene at QZJ when YG arrives after XLN's been wounded, and she discovers his arm is gone. I love all the scenes of them alone in Gu Mu: XLN putting on the wedding gown, the two of them talking and reading WCY's letter to LCY - those segments are all incredibly sweet to me. The wedding itself was well done, too, except for the scene of the bell dropping being done too fast. There's occasionally some heavy-handed editing in this series.

I like it when YG gets back to Passionless Valley & is reunited with CY and LWS, and CY just stares at his missing arm with a horrified expression on her face and doesn't say anything.

One of my very favorite scenes in the entire series is at Passionless Valley after XLN has jumped off the cliff and YG accuses HR of convincing XLN to kill herself. It was shot in a very interesting way, with the camera behind HR most of the time so the audience just sees YG pacing back and forth in front of her. I thought HXM delivered his lines really well there, especially when it gets to the point where YG tells HR he hates her. He says it very softly at first and his voice cracks. I thought that was a great line delivery.

Although at first I didn't like the way GX was played, I do like the scene with YG giving her the needles and GX asking him as her first wish to remove his mask. Maybe it was a little too flashy with showing him removing the mask in slow-motion, but I liked her reaction.

Like the sequence in Passionless Valley after XLN leaves, I also really like the sequence when YG returns after 16 years to find her. I can really feel his yearning for her and his despair when she doesn't appear. I was especially pleased that they took the time to dramatize the scene in the book where he runs to a high point to watch the sun setting, because when it sets the appointed day will be over.

I like every sequence with HR and GJ alone. They really convinced me they were a happily married couple. HR seemed just the way I imagined her from reading the book. I've never perceived GJ as dumb; he's just not very clever or perceptive sometimes, and the actor did a good job of being someone who was honorable and decent but not quick-witted.

There were some scenes I didn't like as well. Not many, but some. I do find HXM's performance as the young YG a little over the top, like he's trying too hard to seem juvenile. After YG leaves Gu Mu his performance gets better, IMHO - except for the sequence where CY is caring for him after JF injures him. He acts more like he's drunk than injured. That sequence is annoying until HY shows up.

I also found the scene very irritating where the Wu brothers are trying to get out of Passionless Valley to tell everyone that their father and the Indian Monk have been captured, and they both get pricked by Passion Flowers. That scene was too comical and was just unnecessary to the story. YG mourning at his father's burial place is also way overdone with all that wailing and banging his head on the tombstone.

There are several places in the series where short connecting scenes were shown that just weren't necessary. We didn't need to see so many overhead shots of Quan Zhen or Passionless Valley. We definitely didn't need to see some of the badly-digitized scenes of people moving from place to place, like Ke Zhen E going to meet CY and LWS near the end of the series. The worst of all was Gongsun Zhi and QCC falling into the grotto under Passionless Valley. It looked horrible, and since the audience already knew there was an opening there we really didn't need to see the couple falling down it, or landing at the bottom.

The ending of the series came too fast. They spent so much time on the buildup to GX's birthday celebration, and then rushed through the siege of Xiang Yang. It felt like they were running out of time or money and had to finish up in too much of a hurry. I was a little disappointed not to see the scene on Mt. Hua where YG teaches some martial arts to Zhang Jiunbao, but in some ways I'm glad they didn't include that as it seems a bit out of place in the novel.

[ChineseChik525]

So, directing this question at anyone, if you enjoyed this series what were some of your favorite moments? I know this may have been discussed already but this thread is so huge I've only made it through about half of it so far.

My personal favorite moments:
When GJ brings YG to Quan Zhen, at one point he picks up the young YG and carries the boy on his shoulder. Also when GJ leaves YG at QZJ and YG runs and grabs his uncle, GJ picks him up while YG is still hugging him and carries the boy back over to the QZ masters. I thought these two sequences were a great way of showing how much GJ cared for YG.

When YG and XLN are reunited at Da Xing Guan. I liked the way the director shot that sequence where they're sitting in the meadow talking. It was original and sweet to have some of YG's dialogue done while he's got his head pressed against XLN's bosom.

At the heroes' contest when YG is fighting HD and fakes him out with the Jade Bee Needles. I like the way YG acts so cocky. It makes me laugh every time I see it. My fiancee hates that scene for the same reason.

When YG announces his intention to marry XLN and he and GJ argue, the scene is so fraught with emotion that it's hard to watch. Both actors did a great job of conveying that intensity. GJ really convinces me that he's terribly hurt by YG's behavior.

The whole Passionless Valley sequence is good, but I especially like the scene when YG spits up blood and begs XLN to acknowledge him. I liked it that the blood got all over his face, like he spit it out really violently and then didn't care that he had blood all over him. He goes through the whole remainder of the scene and the fight with Fan Yiweng with blood on his face. I also liked it that HXM said his lines in a very hoarse voice afterward, as if he really was suffering.

I was pretty happy with the fight sequences overall. I especially like when YG is trying to convince the Wu brothers to forget about GF. HXM looked particularly good when YG is demonstrating his Jade Flute Swordplay to the Wu brothers.

When GF and YG fight and she cuts off his arm is another scene I thought was played well. YG could perhaps have seemed a bit more apologetic to GF about telling the Wu brothers that he and GF were engaged, but the scene was played as YG being ill from the double poisoning, so he's probably not in the best mood for the conversation. They way they shot GF cutting off his arm was a bit cliched, but it works well enough. And I liked it that when GJ comes into the room and sees the severed arm on the floor he's so shocked he literally falls over backward.

I'm a sucker for the romantic scenes, so I love the scene at QZJ when YG arrives after XLN's been wounded, and she discovers his arm is gone. I love all the scenes of them alone in Gu Mu: XLN putting on the wedding gown, the two of them talking and reading WCY's letter to LCY - those segments are all incredibly sweet to me. The wedding itself was well done, too, except for the scene of the bell dropping being done too fast. There's occasionally some heavy-handed editing in this series.

I like it when YG gets back to Passionless Valley & is reunited with CY and LWS, and CY just stares at his missing arm with a horrified expression on her face and doesn't say anything.

One of my very favorite scenes in the entire series is at Passionless Valley after XLN has jumped off the cliff and YG accuses HR of convincing XLN to kill herself. It was shot in a very interesting way, with the camera behind HR most of the time so the audience just sees YG pacing back and forth in front of her. I thought HXM delivered his lines really well there, especially when it gets to the point where YG tells HR he hates her. He says it very softly at first and his voice cracks. I thought that was a great line delivery.

Although at first I didn't like the way GX was played, I do like the scene with YG giving her the needles and GX asking him as her first wish to remove his mask. Maybe it was a little too flashy with showing him removing the mask in slow-motion, but I liked her reaction.

Like the sequence in Passionless Valley after XLN leaves, I also really like the sequence when YG returns after 16 years to find her. I can really feel his yearning for her and his despair when she doesn't appear. I was especially pleased that they took the time to dramatize the scene in the book where he runs to a high point to watch the sun setting, because when it sets the appointed day will be over.

I like every sequence with HR and GJ alone. They really convinced me they were a happily married couple. HR seemed just the way I imagined her from reading the book. I've never perceived GJ as dumb; he's just not very clever or perceptive sometimes, and the actor did a good job of being someone who was honorable and decent but not quick-witted.

There were some scenes I didn't like as well. Not many, but some. I do find HXM's performance as the young YG a little over the top, like he's trying too hard to seem juvenile. After YG leaves Gu Mu his performance gets better, IMHO - except for the sequence where CY is caring for him after JF injures him. He acts more like he's drunk than injured. That sequence is annoying until HY shows up.

I also found the scene very irritating where the Wu brothers are trying to get out of Passionless Valley to tell everyone that their father and the Indian Monk have been captured, and they both get pricked by Passion Flowers. That scene was too comical and was just unnecessary to the story. YG mourning at his father's burial place is also way overdone with all that wailing and banging his head on the tombstone.

There are several places in the series where short connecting scenes were shown that just weren't necessary. We didn't need to see so many overhead shots of Quan Zhen or Passionless Valley. We definitely didn't need to see some of the badly-digitized scenes of people moving from place to place, like Ke Zhen E going to meet CY and LWS near the end of the series. The worst of all was Gongsun Zhi and QCC falling into the grotto under Passionless Valley. It looked horrible, and since the audience already knew there was an opening there we really didn't need to see the couple falling down it, or landing at the bottom.

The ending of the series came too fast. They spent so much time on the buildup to GX's birthday celebration, and then rushed through the siege of Xiang Yang. It felt like they were running out of time or money and had to finish up in too much of a hurry. I was a little disappointed not to see the scene on Mt. Hua where YG teaches some martial arts to Zhang Jiunbao, but in some ways I'm glad they didn't include that as it seems a bit out of place in the novel.

wow. it seems like you enjoyed pretty much the whole series
the scenes that you mentioned above are all pretty great, imo. i especially like the romantic ones with the two of them together
i think the ending was rushed. they should have at least included the part where the crowned the new 5 masters (i forgot their names, sorry, but that part was in the book), like the new dong nan xi bei zhong (north south east west middle?) masters.
oh, and HXM is hot
oh, and another thing. was zhang junbao even mentioned in this version? i dont remember him

[sniffles]

wow. it seems like you enjoyed pretty much the whole series
the scenes that you mentioned above are all pretty great, imo. i especially like the romantic ones with the two of them together
i think the ending was rushed. they should have at least included the part where the crowned the new 5 masters (i forgot their names, sorry, but that part was in the book), like the new dong nan xi bei zhong (north south east west middle?) masters.
oh, and HXM is hot
oh, and another thing. was zhang junbao even mentioned in this version? i dont remember him

I do like it a lot. It's not perfect, but the good stuff outweighs the bad.

HXM is indeed very pleasant to look at.

They completely left out Zhang Junbao. No mention at all. Which I guess I can understand from the perspective of a tv show. At that point ZJZ probably didn't know if he'd be able to make a version of HSDS, and the whole point of that scene in the book is to introduce the characters for the next book. There's not a lot of use in having that scene in a tv series if the next series wasn't going to follow immediately after this one. But I agree, I would have liked to have the scene naming the new five great masters. That would have made a nice conclusion to the series.

[shen diao xia]

I am just disappointed that we never get to read more about the couple after the end of ROCH. I would have preferred a continuous transition to HSDS rather than a gap of about 80/90 yrs???