HSDS revised: ZWJ didn't end up w/ ZM

[andrea7974]

With all due respect, I'm glad (in a good way) that given Mr. Jin Yong's age, he will not have time to revise the novels for the fourth time, this is bad enough already

So someone is hoping Mr. Jin Yong will so he won't have to revise his novels again.

Somehow I agree with this. I really don't understand why JY has to revise his novels

the idea that ZWJ won't end up with ZM, and HYS had an affair with MCF really makes me angry

[andrea7974]

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I don't think so, he's completely serious about this matter

He also said (he read it somewhere) Jin Yong plan to change the ending of Lu Ding ji (release date 2006) because Jin Yong said: Why should a bad boy like WXB get such a a happy ending with 6 (or 7?) wives. So the ending of LDJ will be changed something like this:

WXB will lose his wives one by one until he got nobody left and he remains single again, he also becomes poor .........

this is what I call happy ending

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Would this theory be able to encompass ZWJ now wanting 4 girls in light of the male to female imbalance of the new generation?

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If I understand the ending of the revised HSDS correctly, at the end Wu Ji is undecided, that means he couldn't decide which of the 4 girls he loved most and should marry (thus the ending is an open end ending). That surely makes ZWJ a follower of a 0CP (zero child policy) which could be regarded as an advanced form of Mainland's 1CP (one child policy). So ZWJ (a patriot) practically by remaining single had taken the male-female imbalance into account.

[kidd]

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If I understand the ending of the revised HSDS correctly, at the end Wu Ji is undecided, that means he couldn't decide which of the 4 girls he loved most and should marry (thus the ending is an open end ending). That surely makes ZWJ a follower of a 0CP (zero child policy) which could be regarded as an advanced form of Mainland's 1CP (one child policy). So ZWJ (a patriot) practically by remaining single had taken the male-female imbalance into account.

People can have children out of wedlock, you know?

Although he is undecided at the end, he is still only left with ZM, right?

ZZR - claimed her promise from ZWJ, then gave some speech and left.
XZ - still in Persia.
Zhu-Er - still gone.

[Zhuge Liang]

Why do you think that they aren't treated respectfully already?

Despite making an apparent choice in Zhao Min, Zhang Wuji continues to carry the hope of a "journey of five" in his heart.

Meanwhile, Xiaozhao, who has become the leader of the Persian Ming Sect, sends a messenger to Zhang Wuji, with word that she hopes to reunite with him one day. Hence, by the end of the book, Zhang Wuji forgives Zhou Zhiruo for using "love" as an excuse for criminal acts, hopes that Xiaozhao will give up her position as the virgin sect-leader and dreams of Yin Li "returning one day to look for me, the grown-up Zhang Wuji".

This is what really makes me sick. He can make a decision to not sacrifice his own revenge on Bright Peak to save everyone but he can't bare to let go of his fan girls. It seems it is now Xiao Zhao he loves but he chooses Zhao Min by default but still yearns for XZ. It was bad enough that he jilts ZZR at the eleventh hour by choosing to leave with ZM but now he is repeating the cycle.

As if that is not enough he even hopes Yin Li will return for him. How can he truly love any of them? Next he'll be wanting MieJue to rise from the grave to be president of his fanclub - under this revision's mentality, ZWJ probably thinks MieJue hates him so much due to her secretly loving him.

If he wanted to retire from wulin to enjoy some peace he is sorely mistaken if he thinks he'll get any with this kind of attitude. Someone prick him with a passion flower bouquet already!

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Dugu Seeking a win. You win i concede. That is probably the best punishment for him. Like watching a cookery programme - you can see but can't taste.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

[QUOTE=babyblues]

I think only person he didn't kiss is Yin Li..

/QUOTE]

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He did held Yin Li in his arms, IIRC probably kissed her too

It's not like JY changed into him ultra womanizer who goes around groping every female he can find. If JY really wanted to turn ZWJ carnal desires loose, he would have allowed WJ to consumate some of those relationships. Many have criticized ZWJ for being too indecisive including the affairs of the heart, and it seems like the upcoming revision will follow this trend.

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Well, the cute and kind-hearted Wu Ji seemed to succeed in wildly evoking motherly instincts embedded deeply and slumbering in maiden's hearts. But he is certainly not a classical playboy (who controls girls), he rather is a plaything or a 'played boy' controlled by devious girls (ZM, ZZR) battling ferociously for his love with all feminine/unfeminine tricks at hand. This passive behaviour of Wu Ji imo disturbs and angers 'macho' Candide more than ZWJ's indecisions.

When both of them are taken on to the Persian ship, Zhang Wuji makes a promise with his own mouth to marry Xiaozhao. He is even willing to jump into the ocean with her, so that both of them will never be apart.

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Men said those things to please women's hearts (knowing women expect that sort of thing). So who is to be blamed? Well, if those hopeless romantic, enchanting, unfathomable, unpredictable etc, etc, creatures called women still insist on hearing that sort of nonsense, they at least have to take half of the blame on their shoulders.

PS
So he did marriage vows to all four girls (YL, ZZR, ZM, XZ)? That makes the revised edition really 4 open-ended

[Candide]

Hey that doesn't disturb or anger me. I don't mind ZWJ flirting and/or being "played" by those girls, but I prefer him wake up at the end and settle with someone (Zhao Min). I like Xiao Zhao but her ending in HSDS 2nd ed is better. The new ending (if it's true) cheapens her sacrifice. What I don't like about this new ZWJ is that he makes way too many bullsith promises. The previous ZWJ was very careful and considerate when he promised someone.

[RevanShan]

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If I understand the ending of the revised HSDS correctly, at the end Wu Ji is undecided, that means he couldn't decide which of the 4 girls he loved most and should marry (thus the ending is an open end ending).

Yes, ZWJ is undecided about whom he loves most, but his own opinion doesn't matter anyway. Pretty much everything he did in his adult life was forced upon him by circumstances. So I found it hard to imagine he would do anything but go with ZM to Mongolia.

[Laviathan]

This is absurb !

We got ourselves a new WeiXiaoBao, while the original WXB (from DOMD) will no longer become the WXB we knew.

Duan Yu will also end up with eight wives, another WeiXiaoBao.

With all due respect, I'm glad (in a good way) that given Mr. Jin Yong's age, he will not have time to revise the novels for the fourth time, this is bad enough already

So someone is hoping Mr. Jin Yong will so he won't have to revise his novels again.

Somehow I agree with this. I really don't understand why JY has to revise his novels

How many of the 3rd editions have you guys read, if you don't mind me asking? I have read them all, except for the newest HSDS, and up until now, every revision was WONDERFUL. Granted, I did not agree with everything Jin Yong wrote or changedd, but I do think that it is a good thing that Jin Yong has the energy and inspiration to revise his novels while he is still alive, so we as readers can compare and understand the different stages of Jin Yong's development as a writer.

In my opinion, all these complaints are utterly absurd.

the idea that ZWJ won't end up with ZM, and HYS had an affair with MCF really makes me angry

For the 10th time: THEY DID NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR.

[Temujin]

How many of the 3rd editions have you guys read, if you don't mind me asking? I have read them all, except for the newest HSDS, and up until now, every revision was WONDERFUL. Granted, I did not agree with everything Jin Yong wrote or changedd, but I do think that it is a good thing that Jin Yong has the energy and inspiration to revise his novels while he is still alive, so we as readers can compare and understand the different stages of Jin Yong's development as a writer.

Honestly I have not read any of Jin Yong novels for many many years now. The novels I read in the past were also only the first edition. It was through the old Wuxia Discussion forum and Spcnet.tv that I was informed about the changes in the second edition and I'm quite content with the changes , as they DID bring some closure and clarification to most of the incoherent storylines in the first edition.

Therefore, all the changes in the third edition I know were ALSO from this forum, and the old Wuxia Discussion forum, some other forums in the internet and from friends who are fans of JY works.

Leaving that aside, I honestly don't have any problems with the changes so far, quoting as you said 'every revision was WONDERFUL' However, the changes that we know so far (before HSDS third edition), really did not change any characters' personalities.

The changes brought to this new ZWJ is different, imho, makes him sounds like WXB, but with feminine mentality, as he lets his mind being played by this women, and not to mention, his inability to make decision. It clearly downplayed his character. If this is true, I do not like these new changes at all.

In addition, while it is still a speculation, if WXB is changed to be a poor, wifeless fella at the end, it is really a highly controversial changes, as this is what makes him special as a antihero character among other JY's heroes. It is the same as changing Guo Jing to be a playboy, and goes into a seclusion with all his women.

And making Duan Yu ending up with eight girls, IMHO, also makes his naive, innocent character detract a lot from the DY we used to know (gone are the impression we have on him, acting as a stalker to WYY, not caring about anyone else other than WYY).

Finally, off course this is all rumors and speculations, we should all wait until the books are on the shelves.

[Han Solo]

Granted, I did not agree with everything Jin Yong wrote or changedd, but I do think that it is a good thing that Jin Yong has the energy and inspiration to revise his novels while he is still alive, so we as readers can compare and understand the different stages of Jin Yong's development as a writer.

Well, what that does not strengthen a work, will inevitably dilute the epic tales that Jin Yong written. Elegant fragments, free-floating fantasies, disturbing relationships etc that detracts from the story are the things that ought not been revised in anyway.

For me personally, what matters was not the writer, but the story itself. The story now, and the story forever.

[crimson18]

they shud change SDXL(ROCH)
[1] Yang Guo obtained an arm from a man like in Feng Yun or a witch create an arm for him
[2] nothing written of Guo Polu but of Guo Xiang...change this part

[Laviathan]

Finally, off course this is all rumors and speculations, we should all wait until the books are on the shelves.

Right, exactly. In the 3rd edition of Book and Sword, an extra epilogue was added (about Chen Jialuo crying and trying to kill himself blabla), and I really hated the whole thing. Also there were other stuff in the new versions which I did not like. If the new HSDS is crappy, I will be the first to complain.

Well, what that does not strengthen a work, will inevitably dilute the epic tales that Jin Yong written. Elegant fragments, free-floating fantasies, disturbing relationships etc that detracts from the story are the things that ought not been revised in anyway.

For me personally, what matters was not the writer, but the story itself. The story now, and the story forever.

OK, but the things Jin Yong revised also enhance the logical continuity of the story, like correcting flaws etc.

[HuangYushi]

... In the 3rd edition of Book and Sword, an extra epilogue was added (about Chen Jialuo crying and trying to kill himself blabla), and I really hated the whole thing.

Huh? An epilogue as in "Hou Ji" [后记] or actually added to the story towards the end? Man, I thought Chen Jialuo is about as soft as JY "heroes" can get, but trying to kill himself is a bit over the top. I don't want to go off-topic here, but I never liked Chen Jialuo from the day I read Book/Sword.

Zhang Wuji may seem indecisive in terms of his relationships with the four women, but at least, he was decisive enough to make decisions as a leader of the Ming Sect (in the 2nd ed, that is), even when he first assumed the position. But when Chen Jialuo first took over the leadership of the Red Flower Society, he deferred to people like Wu Chen the Taoist, Zhao Banshan, Lu Feiqing, etc, whenever he had to make decisions. In fact, he deferred to them so much (in the 2nd ed) that I got quite irritated with him!

Coming back to Zhang Wuji and his love life ... if we consider the Condor Trilogy as a whole, there is a very strong nationalistic theme that ties the three novels together. LOCH and ROCH are closely related, and HSDS is related to the earlier two works by virtue of the Dragon Sabre and the Heaven Sword, which was made basically to keep the Han peoples' fight against the Mongolians alive. After all, HSDS' real title is "Relying on Heaven for the Slaughter of the Dragon".

While it is very nice and realistic to have people getting into relationships during the course of life, the main draw of HSDS (to me, at least), is the premise presented by Zhang Wuji himself. Caught between two opposing sides who are also his "family", he strives to keep the "big picture" in mind as he works on bringing reconciliation among the feuding parties. Subsequently, he is thrown into an even "bigger" picture when he becomes the leader of a bunch of anti-Yuan rebels. Yet, he has managed to discharge these heavy responsibilities without too many problems.

This is the "big picture" Zhang Wuji of the 2nd ed. If the "big picture" Zhang Wuji of the 3rd ed is similar or remains largely the same, I won't find fault with him, regardless of who he chooses to spend his life with or thinks about all day. Fans of Zhao Min will not be happy with me, but isn't it true that no one can truly control what a man does/thinks, except the man himself? If there is any choice, it will have to come from Zhang Wuji himself, and if he chooses one, a combination or all four of them, hey, the man has spoken.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

I thought that JY had stated that he wrote DOMD, his final novel, as a satiric piece of work to poke fun at some of his previous works and characters. Whatever JY does with his revisions with DOMD and any of his other works, I feel that for us readers and fans, the edition we most enjoyed will forever be the standardized version that we harp on.

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I think the generation before would cherish the 1st edition,
the generation of today would cherish the 2nd
and the next generation would only remember the 3rd edition.

It is similar with the music with which we are brought up, it is difficult to be 'objective', too many factors (youth, memories etc.) are intertwined with it.

[Candide]

Lav, I thought that bit was added in Book & Sword 2nd ed when Chen was trying to kill himself and Lu the Wudang old fart gave him the Bald Eagle's sword from Hua Qingtong etc.?

[Laviathan]

Huh? An epilogue as in "Hou Ji" [后记] or actually added to the story towards the end?

A extra chapter.

Lav, I thought that bit was added in Book & Sword 2nd ed when Chen was trying to kill himself and Lu the Wudang old fart gave him the Bald Eagle's sword from Hua Qingtong etc.?

Oh? The new chapter was added to the 3rd edition. The second edition I read did not contain the epilogue.

[wkeej]

jy's stories have stong political elements. They centre on china and the "foreign" powers, be it khitans, manchus or mongols.
that's why i personally find it perfectly all right for and prefer zwj and zm to leave mainland for happy life in mongolia/somewhere else like island of ice and fire.

if we consider the Condor Trilogy as a whole, there is a very strong nationalistic theme that ties the three novels together.

[athlonkmf]

The 9-yang originates from a drinking contest of some mysterious dude with WCY?

First problem: time frame. When did this contest occurs?
2nd problem: mysterious dude happens to just write it down instead of becoming the a topnotch famous artist.
3rd problem: WCY doesn't seem like a drinking dude....



I'd think my version would be better: 9-yang was written by the crazy Au Yeung Fung while he was wandering the world after the rape-incident.
He wanted to give it to his son, but couldn't find him, so he wrote it down in the library of shaolin thinking only his son could be smart enough to find it.

He wrote it down as 9-yin, but the ones hearing (z3f and quo sheung) the completely opposite manual, would refer it as yang because Z3F's old master only told them the phrases but not the name.