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[kidd]

Anyone else is sad that DY is no longer with WYY?

That totally changes the story and also the personal development and redemption for both of them.

Personal development and redemption for WYY, yes. But what personal development and redemption does DY gain from ending up with WYY?

I don't like JY making changes to his characters too. I prefer them to remain as they are with both their flaws and strengths. But, to me, the new DY actually has more personal development and redemption. This new DY finally matures get over his obsession of WYY. At least now, he does not see a woman just at face value.

[Han Solo]

I don't like JY making changes to his characters too. I prefer them to remain as they are with both their flaws and strengths. But, to me, the new DY actually has more personal development and redemption. This new DY finally matures get over his obsession of WYY. At least now, he does not see a woman just at face value.

Instead, he sees woman as a numeral value instead.

[kidd]

Instead, he sees woman as a numeral value instead.

In what way does he sees women as numeral values? Did he marry his wives with a target number in mind? Did he marry with the intention of getting as many wives as possible? I don't think so. So, how can he be considered as seeing women in numeral values?

[Han Solo]

In what way does he sees women as numeral values? Did he marry his wives with a target number in mind? Did he marry with the intention of getting as many wives as possible? I don't think so. So, how can he be considered as seeing women in numeral values?

How is it better than the old DY who personalify the concept of "one love is enough" or loyalty?

[kidd]

How is it better than the old DY who personalify the concept of "one love is enough" or loyalty?

Han, I notice that you have not answered any one of the questions I asked you. You always just reply with a new question or comment on my comment. So, can u stop avoiding my questions and answer them first? I really would like to know

1) What personal development and redemption does DY gain from ending up with WYY?

2) In what way does he sees women as numeral values?

[Candide]

1) What personal development and redemption does DY gain from ending up with WYY?

Hard work pays off. There's hope for stalkers everywhere.

[TaiHan]

Well, DY getting over WYY is a buddhist trait, IMO. The guy was always lost in thought over a girl, it doesn't really follow the ideal of buddhism(at least chan buddhism).

And DY getting marry to MWQ and ZL; it show DY had a greater heart. That he actually care about others rather than just only WYY. The saying such as "Seeing new, and forgetting the old," won't apply to him anymore. Also in history, doesn't DY had more one wife? 1 Deng have more than one, so why not DY?

[miette]

DYQ had some good kung fu, but he has literally one of the WORST fighting instincts in all of JY novel.

Are you referring to Duan Yuan Qing? Why does he have "literally one of the WORST fighting instincts in all of JY novel"?

[Whsie]

Wait who is DYQ? (I only read parts of DSGS , I got it from library.) Is DYQ the person that know 6 Mai Sun Jian? Or is he dude that knows 1 Yang Zhi. Or is he the leader of the Bad 4. If he's the person taht knows 6 Mai Sun Jian, then his fighting instict is ONE OF THE WORST. If he's the person taht knows 1 Yang Zhi, then his fighting insticnt is still mediocre. IF he is the leader of the Bad 4, then I have to admit his fighting insticnt is first class. But even if it is the Bad 4 leader, his kung fu's power still can't beat the XL28Z and his instinct is about par with H7G and GJ, but weaker than XF.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Duan Yanqing is the crippled leader of the Four Great Evils, named "Evil Overflowing The Basin", "E Guan Man Ying".

[Whsie]

Hehe, remember I didn't read of all of the book . But either way, XF still has better instinct. Now DYQ I admit does have good instinct, but he still can't beat XF, GJ, and H7G, the people who mastered XL18Z.

[miette]

Wait who is DYQ (I only read parts of DSGS...But even if it is the Bad 4 leader, his kung fu's power still can't beat the XL28Z and his instinct is about par with H7G and GJ, but weaker than XF.

Hehe, remember I didn't read of all of the book . But either way, XF still has better instinct. Now DYQ I admit does have good instinct, but he still can't beat XF, GJ, and H7G...

I get the feeling you're missing the point of my questions (in post #88). BTW, why did you make a statement about DYQ if you don't know who he is?

Naturally, we all know XF first had the XL28Z. And according to DSGS, he and Xu Zhu shortens it to the XL18Z. The advantages of XL28Z (XF): it had more techniques. XL18Z's(North Beggar) adv: easier to memorize because it's shorter. The power is way stronger. XL18Z upgraded with 9 Yin (GJ in ROCH): though the techniques are the same as North Beggar's, but I think it's stronger. It said somewhere in the fight between Mongul fighters and GJ that "This sudden quick, sudden slow, sudden stronger, sudden weak, is the kung fu that H7G could not understand."
So technically, the XL18Z is suppose to be upgraded as it is passed on. With the power getting stronger. Eventually, GJ's 9Yin XL18Z would be the peak of the kung fu. And from his son-in-law, it would go into a decline until it was lost forever.
The reason I think it started deproving from his son-in-law is because obviously, he didn't have the internal energy to maximize the kung fu. In addition, his internal isn't strong enough, so he was only to be able learn 14. And obviously, since he only learned 14, every other beggar leader from that point on at teh most learned 14 palms. In addition, you must remember to use the improved XL18Z by 9 Yin, I think you actually have to learn 9 Yin, or else you won't understand that sudden quick, slow, strong, weak like H7G. Since GJ's son in law didn't learn 9 Yin, the one that he used is probably the H7G version.

What you've written about XL18Z - is it stated in the new editions of DGSD (or LOCH/ROCH/HSDS)? Please do not get me wrong, I'm not challenging you to come up with proof or anything like that. Nor do I need proof, a "yes" or "no" would suffice.

I'm only asking because I enjoyed reading the interesting contents of your post. However, I'd like to know (curious) if they're facts or personal opinions. TIA.

And of course as we all know, eventually, the kung fu was lost when the last Beggar Leader who learned 12 palms was killed.

Who is this leader to whom you were referring?

[Zhuge Liang]

Han, I notice that you have not answered any one of the questions I asked you. You always just reply with a new question or comment on my comment. So, can u stop avoiding my questions and answer them first? I really would like to know

1) What personal development and redemption does DY gain from ending up with WYY?

2) In what way does he sees women as numeral values?

At least in ending up with WYY, it shows DY as a man who can devote himself to one person. Both his brothers can also manage to love just one woman. But DY marries 2 women, how can you truly love more than one woman?

Both MYQ & ZL seem to truly love DY, what kind of man is he if he cannot at least return the same respect to them?

Whether or not multiple wives is common in those time is not relevant. In essence he has followed the footsteps of the father that raised him. Imagine if DY's wife decided to take on another husband.

[Black Night Sea]

Hi.

Hanky Panky: Huang Yaoshi did not have an "affair" with Mei Chaofeng. Why call it an affair if nothing happened? He just had some feelings for her, that is it.

I know that. It’s just that I couldn’t help myself on bringing back this infamous speculation that was posted before in forums, prior to LOCH 3rd Edition being released. I thought the message was conveyed very clearly with the inverted commas. If there was any confusion, I apologise for that.

XL18Z upgraded with 9 Yin (GJ in ROCH): though the techniques are the same as North Beggar's, but I think it's stronger.

(Sigh)… The 2 techniques Kanglong Youhui and Lushuang Bingzhi have already incorporated soft and hard energies into one. H7G and XF found it very difficult to achieve the same balance of proportions between softness and firmness with the other 16 techniques, and that’s when Guo Jing stepped up to correct it with Taoist theories from 9 Yin and Vacant Fist etc, etc (not 9 Yin or Quanzhen internal energy). It’s like how L/R technique operates, the no. of moves is increased (in XL 18 Palm’s case, it would be the variations), but one’s internal energy remains static. Thus techniques that leave opponents feeling like they’re fighting against 2 opponents (L/R Hand Technique) and 7 opponents (Quanzhen Big Dipper Formation) are in actual fact a figment of imagination, one that the Quanzhen School specialises in.

Here’s some proof that supports the idea of Vacant Fist theories being applied to XL 18 Palms with comparisons from LOCH with ROCH.

LOCH Chapter 17: ZBT explains Vacant Fist to Guo Jing.

...我師哥在日，曾對我說過以虛擊實、以不足勝有余的妙旨…
…When my Martial Brother (Wang Chongyang) was alive, he told me about the essentials of using emptiness to attack solidity, and using insufficiency to conquer redundancy…

…我這全真派最上乘的武功，要旨就在‘空、柔’二字…
…The main idea of this top-class Quanzhen art, is stemmed from the 2 words “emptiness” and “softness”…

ROCH Chapter 2: Guo Jing’s palm wind.

…歐陽鋒剛將柯鎮惡震下屋頂，但覺一股微風撲面而來，風勢雖然不勁，然已逼得自己呼吸不暢，知道 不妙…
…Ouyang Feng had just knocked Ke Zhen’e off the roof when he suddenly felt a breeze blowing against his face. Although the wind wasn't strong, it forced his own breathing to be impeded, and knew there was something not right about it…

Note: Notice how the force starts off very gently as soon as GJ launched it out and then gradually ended up quite forceful once it reached OYF’s mouth. This is also how the system of Taichi Quan works. And if there has really been a single person that influenced Zhang Sanfeng to invent something like Taichi Quan, that person would be Guo Jing.

ROCH Chapter 13: When GJ and JLFW exchanged palms for the very first time.

…郭靖見對方掌勢奇速，急使一招「見龍在田」擋開。兩人雙掌相交，竟沒半點聲息，身子都幌了兩幌。郭靖退後 三步，金輪法王卻穩站原地不動。他本力遠較郭靖為大、功力也深，掌法武技卻頗有不及。郭靖順勢退後，卸去敵 人的猛勁，以免受傷。金輪法王卻極為好勝，強自硬接了這一招，忍著胸口隱隱作痛，竟然凝立不動 …
…Guo Jing saw that the palm was arriving unusually fast so hurriedly used a stance of [Seeing the Dragon In The Field] to block it. There was barely any noise created as the palms clashed, and yet both had swayed on impact. Guo Jing took three steps back, while Jinlun Fawang stood his ground steadily. His strength in comparison was much stronger than Guo Jing’s and his internal energy was also profound but the proficiency of his palms was considerably inferior to Guo Jing’s. Guo Jing seized the opportunity to retreat back in order to disperse the enemy’s fierce power and avoid injury. But Jinlun Fawang was far too ambitious on the approach, and had stubbornly met this palm solidly. He firmly stood there without moving, as he swallowed the faint but aching pain there in his chest…

So technically, the XL18Z is suppose to be upgraded as it is passed on. With the power getting stronger.

The technique doesn’t get stronger by itself; it more-or-less depends on the user.

The following aren’t comparisons of exact situations but it gives you the gist of what I’m trying to suggest here:

ROCH Chapter 21: GJ’s battle with the Mongolian warriors.

郭靖一掌「見龍在田」往他僵直的膝蓋上擊去。瀟湘子收棒擋格，未及發毒，身子已被掌力住得飄開 五尺。
Guo Jing used a stance of [Seeing The Dragon In The Field] and sent it towards Xiaoxiang Zi’s stiff kneecaps. Xiaoxiang Zi gathered his rod back to block the attack and before he had any more time to fire some more poison out, he had been forced back 5 feet by his palm.

DGSD Chapter 25: XF sitting down infusing Ah Zi with his own Qi.

…他想也不想，右手一揚，一股渾厚雄勁之極的掌風劈了出去…這細細一的一枚鋼針在尺許之內急射過來，要以無 質的掌風將之震開，所使的掌力自是大得驚人。他一掌擊出，身子同時盡力向右斜出只聞取一陣淡淡的腥臭之氣… 便在此時，阿紫的身軀也被他這一掌推了出去，哼也不哼，身子平平飛出，拍的一聲，摔在十余丈外，她身子落下 后又地雪地上滑了數丈，這才停住…

…Without any thought, his right hand hurled over, and an extremely vigorous and powerful wind from his palm struck out…this tiny steel needle was quickly fired over to him in a little over 1 feet of space between him and Ah Zi. In order for him to shake it off using a palm wind that isn’t made up of matter, the power of the force was of course large and frightening. As he attacked, at the same time he leant himself to the right and then smelt a light stench…At this juncture, Ah Zi’s body was thrust out by his single palm, and without even letting out noises of groans, she had flown out like a rocket and darted out across. With a thudding noise made, she had fallen over 100 feet away; only after sliding for several more tens of feet out on the snowy ground did her body finally grind to a halt…

Who is this leader to whom you were referring?

Shi Huolong, the Beggar Clan leader murdered by Yuanzhen (Cheng Kun).

[wkeej]

Anyone else is sad that DY is no longer with WYY?

i prefer duan yu to marry ah zhu. http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...highlight=duan

second choice - mu wanqing
third choice - wang yu-yan
fourth choice - zhong ling

[wkeej]

1) What personal development and redemption does DY gain from ending up with WYY?

2) In what way does he sees women as numeral values?

1. if you are set on something, go all the way for it. (involving not telling truth)
2. last time
(a) first gf = mu wanqing; second = zhong ling; third = wang yu-yan
(b) first wife = wang yu-yan; only jy knows whether he have concubines later.

soon
(a) first gf = mu wanqing; second = zhong ling; third = wang yu-yan; fourth = xiao lei.
(b) first wife = think should be xiao lei; second = mu wanqing; third = zhong ling. again only jy knows whether he have MORE concubines later.

the above person = women; first, second, third blah blah blah = numbers
so, he "sees women as numeral values"?

[Whsie]

Hey, I didn't read all of the book remember? So when you say DCQ, I assumed the last name was Duan, which I was correct. But there was 3, I assumed you said the one with 6 mai sun jian who actually looked the most like a pansy .
Oh yeah, miette: well, my XL18Z anaylsis has part proof, part opinion. Like the part where I wrote the XL28Z to XL18Z in terms of power is supported in the new LOCH when H7G teaches GJ the XL18Z. The part about GJ's son-in-law is supported in the text as well in the area where YG's decendent first makes a appearance. And ShiHuoLong part about learning 12 palms and his death were supported as well in the same area.
Now the opinion parts is GJ's son-in-law using H7G's version. But you can assume that since GJ's son in law only has the internal energy to learn up to 14 palms, he didn't learn 9 Yin. The only other thing that is not supported is that the 9 Yin XL18Z and H7G's XL18Z - seeing which ones stronger.
Hanky Panky: Yes, I remember reading those parts about ZBT talking about using soft and emptiness. I remember all those quotations, except for DSGS one, because I never read that part. But when you say XF's palm strike blew away the lady 100 ft, you have to remember she has literally no internal or outer kung fu. You can't really compare that to the mongolian warrior. That mongolian warrior actually was pretty strong and had a decent internal energy (better than YG before he learns Demonic). In addition, I would think XL18Z from GJ is better than the rest because, you also can save more energy. It won't be like just blow everything and get yourself worned out. And when I said it was stronger, I didn't mean like the power was stronger(even though it could have been, but not text evidence), I meant the overall kung gu got stronger.

[miette]

Hey, I didn't read all of the book remember? So when you say DCQ, I assumed the last name was Duan, which I was correct. But there was 3, I assumed you said the one with 6 mai sun jian who actually looked the most like a pansy .

"So when you say DCQ..." - DCQ? Why are you suddenly bringing up DCQ? I did not say anything about DCQ in this thread.

My questions were about Duan Yuan Qing:

1. If you were referring to him when you made that statement about "DYQ had some good kung fu, but he has literally one of the WORST fighting instincts in all of JY novel.";
2. Your reason for this statement about DYQ's fighting instincts;
3. And since you mentioned later, "Wait who is DYQ", why you would make a statement about the man when you didn't know who he was.

From your replies, I get the feeling that you're missing the point of my questions.

Or perhaps you did get my questions and have answered them, it's just me who's not seeing it.

Anyway, never mind. It's a trivial matter after all.

Thanks for that about XL18Z! I'll read the trilogy, as well as the latest version of DGSD, for a precise idea about this skill.

[Whsie]

I checked out Athena's site (your A GENIUS), and it said that XL18Z is no longer in the Yi Tian Jian in the newest edition of HSDS. So XL18Z is lost forever after ShiHuoLong died.

[miette]

I checked out Athena's site (your A GENIUS), and it said that XL18Z is no longer in the Yi Tian Jian in the newest edition of HSDS. So XL18Z is lost forever after ShiHuoLong died.

Is it stated in the novel that XL18Z "is lost forever" with the death of Shi Huolong? Or is this an assumption based on the contents (revised) of Yi Tian Jian?