2 part Dook Goo Kau Bai speculation scenario

[Ken Cheng]

One reason that some of us doubt Dook Goo Kau Bai's claims of invincibility is that we don't know the caliber of opponent he faced during his lifetime. It was said that he faced the best warriors of his era and defeated them all. How good, however, were the best of these warriors? Were they as good as the Greats of L/ROCH? Better? If these adversaries were so powerful, why were their names also forgotten in wulin mere decades later? Surely, Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung was old enough that he would have heard stories about Dook Goo Kau Bai and his adversaries.

Second, what would Doo Goo Kau Bai's reaction be if he'd actually met a superior martial artist and was defeated? Would he really be as delighted as he imagined he would be, or would defeat be bitter to him...making him obssessed with finding a way to defeat the opponent who had defeated him?

[IcyFox]

Second, what would Doo Goo Kau Bai's reaction be if he'd actually met a superior martial artist and was defeated? Would he really be as delighted as he imagined he would be, or would defeat be bitter to him...making him obssessed with finding a way to defeat the opponent who had defeated him?

The 2nd part should be easier to answer.

The only way for him to improve (or for anyone else to improve) when he had already hit such an advanced stage in martial arts mastery would be to get defeated by a stronger opponent. That's why he would be happy to be defeated. If he were defeated he would then be able to study his mistakes and improve himself. If there were no one capable enough to defeat him, then his level of martial arts mastery would remain stagnant and his improvement would be very slow, if at all. It's like chess - how the heck can Kasparov improve by playing with me? But I'm sure he was happy that Deep Blue existed as it allowed him to improve his chess skills. And yes, DGQB would in all probability be obsessed in improving his skills if he were defeated. If he weren't so serious in his martial arts training he wouldn't have hit such a high level.

[IcyFox]

If these adversaries were so powerful, why were their names also forgotten in wulin mere decades later? Surely, Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung was old enough that he would have heard stories about Dook Goo Kau Bai and his adversaries.

Refer to the thread Dugu Qiubai doubters take note and see Posts #2 and #22 for the possible answers on this part.

[Siven]

Let's not forget the mutant freak condor. I have a feeling that more than anything helped to convince YG of DGJB's "greatness."

When I'm about to die I'm going to go hide in a ravine somewhere and leave behind a "manual" of my amazing powers too.

[Dennis Chen]

By the end of ROCH, many of the youngsters in Wulin had forgotten the names of Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai. Fame is fleeting.

[danshu_]

Dugu Qiubai's (as described in ROCH) skill can be roughly estimated by looking at the following:

1) How the condor could kick the sh*t out of an already skilled Yang Guo.
2) How difficult an already skilled Yang Guo found the river training, and how profound an effect it had on him. The condor would not have forced Yang Guo to do it if it was not something Dugu Qiubai was doing. And even after Yang Guo had some successes, the condor didn't give a sh*t and wasn't happy. This shows he wasn't even close (at that point) to Dugu's level.
3) (The Most Significant) How difficult a post Heavy-Iron-Sword-possibly Greats Level Yang Guo found the ocean training. Again, the condor would not have knew to make Yang Guo travel for 1 month to reach the ocean if it wasn't one of Dugu's training methods.

Based on the above, it seems obvious that Dugu Qiubai ain't fakin' da funk (even though his actual level is still unknown)

[Ken Cheng]

By the end of ROCH, many of the youngsters in Wulin had forgotten the names of Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai.

I don't think so. People were still waxing lyrical about these figures a century later during the time of HSDS.

[PJ]

By the end of ROCH, many of the youngsters in Wulin had forgotten the names of Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai.

Not exactly. At the end of ROCH, this is what's written about the Greats' reputation:

黄药师、一灯、周伯通、郭靖、黄蓉在武林中都已享名数十年，江湖上可说是谁人不知，那个不晓

Huang Yaoshi, Yideng, Zhou Botong, Guo Jing, and Huang Rong's names have been renowned in the martial world for many years. It would be difficult to find anyone in jianghu who has not heard of them.

[Extremer88]

I don't think so. People were still waxing lyrical about these figures a century later during the time of HSDS.

Some of the people in HSDS when they saw ZZR using her moves, heard of the 9Yin before. They also knew that 9Yin was supreme 100 years ago.

But not much of the greats were mentioned by people in HSDS, except ZSF, Xie Xun, Miejue and the Yellow-dressed lady.

[Ken Cheng]

But not much of the greats were mentioned by people in HSDS, except ZSF, Xie Xun, Miejue and the Yellow-dressed lady.

Golden Haired Lion King Tse Tsun talked about the Greats (including Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor) fairly often: he often discussed wulin history with Cheung Chui San when they were living on Ice Fire Island.

Mo Dong Hero # 3 Yu Doi Nam discussed the subject of Yeung Gor with someone prior to getting crippled.

Even Cheung Mo Gei (at least in HSDS '86) invoked North Beggar Hung 7 Gung's name when he went to rescue Chow Chi Yerk from Chan Yau Leung and the Beggar's Union.

[CC]

DGKB's name relative to the Greats should be _more_ readily remembered. After all, the Greats didn't go around seeking for defeat or actively compete with anyone else outside their little circle of 5-6.

Just put it down to a plot device/hole.

[siegefried]

If DGQB killed all his opponents, who can remember him?

[PJ]

If DGQB killed all his opponents, who can remember him?

He did not kill his opponents. He merely defeated them. It was said that he very much regretted injuring a righteous man, and for that he threw away his sword at that stage forever. So, I do not think that Demonic Swordsman would slaughter his opponents easily.

Also, if he killed his opponents, it would have generated more news around the world, which would make him more well known to the public.

[Extremer88]

DGQB have honour and pride. He won't kill people just because they lost to him.

Speaking of the righteous man, could it be Huang Shang?

[danshu_]

I have a question with regards to this topic:

It is generally assumed that DGQB lived at a time when he could have challenged some DGSD experts. People wonder why his name is not more well known, and why he was forgotten by the time of LOCH/ROCH. Many doubters say his claims of having no match under heaven is a product of him facing weak fighters. Yang Guo assumes he died around 70-80 years ago IIRC. So my question is, what is the justification for assuming DGQB lived during that period? Is it solely based on the condor being still alive? Any other evidence?

Of course by asking this I'm hinting that he may have lived earlier, much earlier, like Tang dynasty. One piece of possible evidence: In the sword tomb, Yang Guo found DG's wooden sword had rotted away. Obviously the sword tomb was protected from the elements, seeing as the metal swords were not terribly corroded. How long does it take for protected wood to rot? I've got tons of old shovel and axe handles in my basement somewhere that have probably been around for 70-80 years, and they are not rotten at all.

Just a thought..

[PJ]

Speaking of the righteous man, could it be Huang Shang?

That has been an actively pondered theory for years. Personally, I have heard about theory many times, but never read the article. Does anyone know where I can find the article about Dugu Qiubai vs Huang Shang?

If Huang Shang was injured by Demonic Swordsman, I'm not sure if it tells us anything about their martial arts. It doesn't mean Huang Shang is inferior at that time, since Dugu and others could have ganged up on Huang.

[Extremer88]

That has been an actively pondered theory for years. Personally, I have heard about theory many times, but never read the article. Does anyone know where I can find the article about Dugu Qiubai vs Huang Shang?

I think I have the link to the article, I'm still trying to dig it out, I'll post the link if I found it.

Anyway, I also got this theory that DGQB and WCY coexists at the same time.

[danshu_]

That has been an actively pondered theory for years. Personally, I have heard about theory many times, but never read the article. Does anyone know where I can find the article about Dugu Qiubai vs Huang Shang?

If Huang Shang was injured by Demonic Swordsman, I'm not sure if it tells us anything about their martial arts. It doesn't mean Huang Shang is inferior at that time, since Dugu and others could have ganged up on Huang.

An "accidental" wounding would probably imply that it wasnt a result of Dugu beating an opponent in a duel. There would have been other extenuating circumstances.