ZWJ vs. YTZ, XuanMing Elders & Green Bat King.

[K2Grey]

In practice ZWJ's best bet is probably to immediately redirect the Xuan Ming Elders' attack at YTZ, then target the Green Bat King (what's he doing on the enemy side anyway?), using alot of inner power to do this as fast as possible. Then run away and come back in a few days when you've recharged to go take on YTZ.

Then again, how good is YTZ's lightness kungfu? I don't believe any specific lightness art was mentioned, but he did attack DCQ really fast - something like, YTZ rushed at DCQ and DCQ didn't see him until he was only a few steps away?

[ChronoReverse]

In terms of long-distance speed and endurance, ZWJ outclassed the Green Bat since that kind of thing is determined by internal energy.

However, in terms of short-ranged agility, the Green Bat was way above ZWJ (enough that ZWJ was astounded).


If ZWJ can redirect the two elder's energy to YTZ and thus injure one or the other he'd have a good chance. If he fully applied himself, he could viciously crush the Green Bat and then use Tai Chi to wear down YTZ.

[Unruly]

I believe with 9 Yang power, ZWJ's lightness kung fu matched the Bat King's.

ZWJ can certainly keep pace with the Bat King, and may even outdo him over long distances (Wei has some problems with using his lightness for long periods, right?), but in the short term, the efficiency of Bat King's lightness technique vs. ZWJ's Wudang lightness supplemented by 9 Yang means that chasing Bat King will cost him more energy than he can afford;

I'm not voting 'cos I don't know enough about YTZ to weigh in on his capabilities fairly.

But ZWJ's primary problem is groups with a formation strategy or some ability at teamwork; the assault speeds of this group vary enough, and they are not trained in a formation, that there will be numerous opportunities for QKDNY to trip the opposition up.

If he can get the Elders to hit YTZ and YTZ and Bat King to match palms (That's pretty sophisticated maneuvering, but seems very likely between QK and Taiji), he takes three of the foes pretty much out of the fight without exerting much force of his own; then it's a matter of whether or not the never-tiring, Taiji-breathing ZWJ can withstand YTZ long enough that his superior staying power seals the deal.

But if they don't all attack at once (The Elders and Bat King both know about QKDNY, so that's not unlikely, that they'd plan for it), they may be able to draw him into commiting energy to attacking a single one. ZWJ's power is his passive offensive potential in his 'redirecting' arts - if he's forced into an assault on an 'equal match' opponent, the others can nip his heels.

[augster123]

ZWJ can certainly keep pace with the Bat King, and may even outdo him over long distances (Wei has some problems with using his lightness for long periods, right?), but in the short term, the efficiency of Bat King's lightness technique vs. ZWJ's Wudang lightness supplemented by 9 Yang means that chasing Bat King will cost him more energy than he can afford;

I'm not voting 'cos I don't know enough about YTZ to weigh in on his capabilities fairly.

But ZWJ's primary problem is groups with a formation strategy or some ability at teamwork; the assault speeds of this group vary enough, and they are not trained in a formation, that there will be numerous opportunities for QKDNY to trip the opposition up.

If he can get the Elders to hit YTZ and YTZ and Bat King to match palms (That's pretty sophisticated maneuvering, but seems very likely between QK and Taiji), he takes three of the foes pretty much out of the fight without exerting much force of his own; then it's a matter of whether or not the never-tiring, Taiji-breathing ZWJ can withstand YTZ long enough that his superior staying power seals the deal.

But if they don't all attack at once (The Elders and Bat King both know about QKDNY, so that's not unlikely, that they'd plan for it), they may be able to draw him into commiting energy to attacking a single one. ZWJ's power is his passive offensive potential in his 'redirecting' arts - if he's forced into an assault on an 'equal match' opponent, the others can nip his heels.

Good point. Undoubtedly XuanMing Elders and Green Bat knows not to hit ZWJ head on for his 9 Yang Shen Gong and QKDNY are deadly. They'd want YTZ to go in crazy head on, matching palms with ZWJ and battling it out in internal energy, before they go throwing out 100% offense, taking advantage of ZWJ preoccupied hands.

ZWJ on the other hand would be trying to avoid YTZ directly and Green Bat King defensely while trying to take out the Xuan Ming Elders one by one.

Unruly, just vote base on your gut feeling. We'll never know EVERYTHING about all these people we put in the battle cage to register a fair vote. only Jin Yong can do that. hahaha, so might as well vote and have some fun.

[Black Night Sea]

Then again, how good is YTZ's lightness kungfu? I don't believe any specific lightness art was mentioned, but he did attack DCQ really fast - something like, YTZ rushed at DCQ and DCQ didn't see him until he was only a few steps away?

Through the words of a blind Ah Zi, he was *almost* as fast as her brother-in-law. She may have determined this by feeling out the air drag while she was on the back of You Tanzhi as he teared through the forest. (Damn! Someone’s spread the disease on me )

[CC]

I wonder, is re-directing all these strikes so easy? After all, he will be getting attacked by YTZ + 2 Xuan Ming Palms at about the same time.

[Whsie]

I wonder, is re-directing all these strikes so easy? After all, he will be getting attacked by YTZ + 2 Xuan Ming Palms at about the same time.

of course it'll be difficult. But focusing and redirecting the Xuan Min elder palms would be the most important part.

[augster123]

I wonder, is re-directing all these strikes so easy? After all, he will be getting attacked by YTZ + 2 Xuan Ming Palms at about the same time.

this is only possible due to ZWJ's superior speed to both You TanZhi and XuanMing Elders. Had it been Green Bat King and someone else, ZWJ would've failed and suffered miserably.

Even with Xuan Ming Elder's precaution, it may be difficult for ZWJ to do it but c'mon its ZWJ, with level 7 QKDNY and 9 Yang Shen Gong, he still can do it if the chance ever arises. But with Green Bat King's precaution and superior speed in close encounters, it is practically impossible.

[K2Grey]

I wonder, is re-directing all these strikes so easy?

Course it is. I could do it myself.

[PJ]

If ZWJ can redirect the two elder's energy to YTZ and thus injure one or the other he'd have a good chance.

That is indeed an excellent strategy. Good thinking, K2grey.

However, the enemies might do something like this:

Let's say that one of the Xuanming Elders attack Zhang Wuji. Wuji redirects that to You Tanzhi. You Tanzhi takes it fine. While this is all happening, while Wuji's energy is busy, the other Xuanming Elder and the King of Green Bat attack Wuji together, injuring him. Then it's the injured Zhang Wuji versus fully powered everybody else.

[Unruly]

I wonder, is re-directing all these strikes so easy? After all, he will be getting attacked by YTZ + 2 Xuan Ming Palms at about the same time.

The power of the attacks is somewhat secondary to the presence or absence of flaws in the assault - Taiji allows for some pretty sophisticated nullification/dispersal of force. So the real factor is mostly the technique - and the XM elders, being skilled in fighting as a single unit, can be considered as 'one entity' for manipulation with QKDNY.

So ZWJ is being assaulted by three 'attacks' (YTZ, Elders as a pair, and Bat), and needs to manipulate the force of two of those attacks (XM into striking YTZ anywhere, Bat King into matching palms with YTZ) - he never needs to (and shouldn't!) use QKDNY on YTZ himself.

Had it been Green Bat King and someone else, ZWJ would've failed and suffered miserably.

I do need a text check on something (Might be a bad translation, half-recalled adaptation, misremembered, etc.), but I recall the attack speed of some foe post Bright Peak (One of the Ahs?) being noted as 'comparable' to Bat King's. Remember that being a fast runner and having a swift swing for an attack aren't necessarily linked - Bat King's lightness makes his motions difficult to predict but I don't know if it makes his actual attack too fast to follow.

[augster123]

That is indeed an excellent strategy. Good thinking, K2grey.

However, the enemies might do something like this:

Let's say that one of the Xuanming Elders attack Zhang Wuji. Wuji redirects that to You Tanzhi. You Tanzhi takes it fine. While this is all happening, while Wuji's energy is busy, the other Xuanming Elder and the King of Green Bat attack Wuji together, injuring him. Then it's the injured Zhang Wuji versus fully powered everybody else.

If it was just one Xuan Ming Elder attack on YTZ (with YTZ not attacking), i don't think ZWJ would need a substantial amount of energy to redirect a single attack. ZWJ can now focus the other unused energy as defense against the other Xuan Ming elder and Green Bat King attacks. Furthermore, according to the "nature" of Xuan Ming Divine Palms, the attack bounces back to the user if the user's internal energy is not higher than the one he is hitting. Thus in this scenario, ZWJ would lose some Chen Chi or be slightly injured from the attacks of a Xuan Ming Elder and Greet Bat King but should have permanently/close to taking a Xuan Ming Elder out of the equation.

However, if YTZ and a Xuan Ming Elder attacked at the same time, of which ZWJ does his redirecting move which would require quite a bit of energy, ZWJ would be injured by the attacks of the other Xuan Ming Elder and Green Bat King but the Xuan Ming Elder who got his attack redirected to meet palms with YTZ would also be injured. How much damage ZWJ did suffer compared to the redirected Xuan Ming Elder is the question. The elder should be permanently out of the battle from that hit but i don't think ZWJ will be out of action THAT fast.

[augster123]

I do need a text check on something (Might be a bad translation, half-recalled adaptation, misremembered, etc.), but I recall the attack speed of some foe post Bright Peak (One of the Ahs?) being noted as 'comparable' to Bat King's. Remember that being a fast runner and having a swift swing for an attack aren't necessarily linked - Bat King's lightness makes his motions difficult to predict but I don't know if it makes his actual attack too fast to follow.

i got the impression for Green Bat King's speedy, close, unpredictable physical manuevers/attacks mainly from his encounter with those 4 mongolian fighters that were part of the fake "Ming Cult" trying to recruit/kill Z3F. so it should be within the same chapter.

[Exodus]

ZWJ would turn into a snowman for sure you guys are overestimating ZWJ's martial arts and his fighting spirit sucks

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

ZWJ has difficulty challenging the Xuan Ming elders.. He needs to fully concentrate on them whenever they fight. How can he stand a chance if there are two more freezers?

[augster123]

ZWJ has difficulty challenging the Xuan Ming elders.. He needs to fully concentrate on them whenever they fight. How can he stand a chance if there are two more freezers?

didn't someone mention ZWJ being able to finish XuanMing Elders in 30 palms or less, possibly without using QKDNY level 7?

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

didn't someone mention ZWJ being able to finish XuanMing Elders in 30 palms or less, possibly without using QKDNY level 7?

He was unable to do so in actual fact. If he could he would have done so and immediately went to rescue ZZR and ZM.. He had to direct each other energy towards each other and make them fight.. And i doubt this would happen in the ZWJ vs four cold people..

[augster123]

He was unable to do so in actual fact. If he could he would have done so and immediately went to rescue ZZR and ZM.. He had to direct each other energy towards each other and make them fight.. And i doubt this would happen in the ZWJ vs four cold people..

well if he goes crazy using all he got (QKDNY level 7 and Tai Chi Zhuan backed with 9 yang shen gong), he might get lucky, purely focusing on redirecting XuanMing Elders and Green Bat King's attacks to YTZ, while avoiding YTZ attacks, as mentioned by someone else before.

[AnhHung]

In the battle of the Ming people on the Ming peak, didn't left herald use QKDNY to redirect all the palms of everybody? I dont know if this happends in the book, but the adaptation 86 showed this. If YTZ and the elders are all maching palms with ZWJ at the same time, he shouldnt hav any problem redirecting their palms (energy).

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

well if he goes crazy using all he got (QKDNY level 7 and Tai Chi Zhuan backed with 9 yang shen gong), he might get lucky, purely focusing on redirecting XuanMing Elders and Green Bat King's attacks to YTZ, while avoiding YTZ attacks, as mentioned by someone else before.

That will cause fire deviation and it will only make matters worse if he goes crazy.

Chances of victory is very low. He can only focus on the XuanMing elders, he sometimes has difficulty defeating them, how is it possible for him to fight anymore fighters at the same time. Moreover, you know the Green Bat King's speed, he will surround ZWJ in such a way he cannot escape or dodge YTZ' attacks. Avoiding attacks is definitely not easy if you are battling three other experts at the same time..

Also, the six level of QKDNY cannot be used to challenge the Xuan Ming elders as mentioned here:

玄冥二老是顶尖高手，如以第五六层的挪移乾坤功夫对付，却又奈何二人不得.

What makes you think the seventh level would be very effective in redirecting the attacks among the three people, or if possible to an outsider. There is a limit to its power. Honestly, ZWJ only succeeded because he managed to sow discord among the two brothers. If he continued redirecting their attacks, he will get depleted of energy very quickly. He used all his 9Yang energy combined with his 7th level QKDNY which is described as follows:

这一牵一引中贯注了九阳神功，使的是乾坤大挪移第七层最高深的功夫。这层功夫最耗心血内力，丝毫疏忽不得， 稍有运用不善，自己便会走火入魔.

He needed to put in all his effort into fighting the two XuanMing elders. I doubt he will stand a chance if the other two fighters joined in the battle.