Greatest embarrassment in wuxia

[PJ]

What do you consider to be the most embarrassing/disappointing fight in the Jin Yong universe? By embarrassing, what I mean is that one of the combatants was not performing as well as you'd expect.

A poll is coming.

[Ken Cheng]

What about Mo Yung F'uk's performance against Kiu Fung during the big Shaolin Conference confrontation? After having been championed as Kiu Fung's equal for his entire adult life, being exposed as considerably less than that in front of much of wulin could not have been pleasant.

[Yeung Gor]

How about that Taoist monk who was suppose to keep watch over the kid Yeung Gor but got outwitted and tied up and spread with feces all over his body and almost burn to death.

[Ken Cheng]

How about that Taoist monk who was suppose to keep watch over the kid Yeung Gor but got outwitted and tied up and spread with feces all over his body and almost burn to death.

That was bad, but that Taoist was an idiot to begin with. These embarrassments seem to be reserved for competent individuals and good fighters who *should* do better, but somehow don't.

And I still think Mo Yung F'uk takes the prize on this one.

[PJ]

What about Mo Yung F'uk's performance against Kiu Fung during the big Shaolin Conference confrontation? After having been championed as Kiu Fung's equal for his entire adult life, being exposed as considerably less than that in front of much of wulin could not have been pleasant.

Well, by the time Murong Fu faced Xiao Feng, we already know that he sucks, so it's not a surprise any more. Plus, I don't think that Murong ever lost to Xiao Feng in a fair one-on-one fight, so the embarrassment there is more collective than a single incidence.

I actually consider Murong Fu and his 4 assistants not able to handle Duan Yanqing to be more embarrassing. But of course, him losing to the never-learned-kungfu-properly Duan Yu multiple times can be the ultimate embarrassment in DGSD.

[Ken Cheng]

Well, by the time Murong Fu faced Xiao Feng, we already know that he sucks, so it's not a surprise any more.

Not to us, no, but to the collective wulin, it was quite a revelation (and the first real big crack in Mo Yung F'uk's public image).

I've found one to match Mo Yung F'uk that wasn't in the poll: how about West Poison Au Yeung Fung being duped by Wong Yung's traps not once, but twice? The Great West Poison got buried alive with sandbags by Mongol soldiers, then the next night, got turned into a popsicle by the same soldiers. For one of the Greats, that's *got* to be humiliating!

[Candide]

It's He Zudao for me. ZWJ v.s Persians or two Wudang heroes v.s ZZR or GWM v.s XLN for example would be the more embarassing ones, but those Persians, ZZR and XLN had very weird techniques that nobody had ever seen before, so that is kind of an OK excuse. Zhang Gunbo was using very basic, entry level Shaolin kungfu that everyone knew, and He Zudao was a bag of tricks and more powerful than anyone in Shaolin at that time.

[Single Whip]

I am voting for 98 Quan Zhen sect guys not being able to contain Guo Jing, or perhaps subsequently when Hui Do (?), the Mongolian Prince, saying to Guo Jing, if you can withstand several of my strokes, then I will let you go, but in the fight, not only Guo Jing can take his strokes, he also almost took his precious fan and basically kick his *** in front of his subordinates.

I just love Guo Jing in those scenes.

[ChronoReverse]

And GJ wasn't even going all out. He's too nice XD


In terms of sheer "What the hell?" I'd say XF "versus" Ah Zhu. How does a defenseless girl offering no resistance take a full power direct physical blow from the mighty XF and not turn into mush?

[Bai Qi44]

Some of those, I don't consider them embarassments at all. He Zudo not beating the young Zhang Guan Bo in "10" moves is hardly an embarassment. Judging from the 2nd edition, Zhang Guan Bo would've been easily defeated if the fight went beyond 10 moves. Still, lasting 10 moves against He Zudo at 16 is quite impressive.

Wuse not being able to see through Gwok Seung's martial arts origins again is not an embarssment. How many people during GS's era had access to so many great fighters and to so many great kung fu types. There are very few so Wuse not being able to recognize Gwok Seung's moves is totally understandable.

The Golden Wheel Monk not being able to defeat XNL is an embarassment cause he couldn't defeat her in front of other experts and his juniors and to boot, he needed other experts to help him gang up on her.

I consider MYF's defeat in front of so many wuxia / shaolin elites to Duan Yu to be the biggest embarassment in JY. Not only because he wasn't able to defeat Duan Yu, but cause MYF's cousin had to beg DY to spare his life in front of so many. Now, that's embarassing.

[Whsie]

I was considering 3.
1. JLFW vs. XLN
2. XF not killing Ah Zhu
3. Xuzhu

I chose XZ in the end

[Black Night Sea]

1) XF's scuffle with a tiger
We're aware that the likes of Huang Yaoshi and Ouyang Feng are able to put horses to rest with a mere single palm hit in LOCH and even Ao Bai in DOMD (despite no martial arts training) can kill a mad bull with a simple fist. However, one of the Tianlong 4 Greats namely Xiao Feng (who's martial arts are at 伯仲之間 with Guo Jing and Yang Guo etc based on general consensus) could not even slaughter a tiger with not 1 but 2 palm hits, 70% and 80% strength dealt respectively. Was his Xianglong Zhang really worthy of praise from Jinyong's "Golden Mouth"?

2) H7G vs. GJ
When H7G used "80%" of his power and struck at GJ's shoulder at the 2nd Huashan Tournament, you'd think his arm would've been torn off or to a lesser extent become dislocated from its joint, but no…in the "perfectly consistent" world of Jinyong, GJ only felt immense pain and that was it. What if it was his "100% strength"? With that sort of power, H7G doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of surviving against GJ if the fight dragged on let alone beat him……

3) QZ Taoists' fights
Despite such overwhelming numerical advantage they have over their opponents, 98 friggin' QZ Taoists would not have defeated the duo of Huo Du and Da'erba and was utterly pwned by GJ. The majority later in the story, even high-tailed it out just because XLN cut their wrists. *I know Mr. Wang…I know how u feel atm…*

[Crazy8]

what about the when XLN got rape by the toaist monk and the Tao sect found out about it

[K2Grey]

The Murong Fu vs blindfolded Duan Yu incident was sorta behind closed doors, but for heaven's sake, MRF had been training martial arts for his entire life and had a weapon and couldn't hit a blindfolded kid with no real skills.

But of course the public MRF vs DY spectacle was probably the most humiliating possible incident. Especially after XF throws him to the ground after it's all over. He probably thought he and his entire house were a joke now as he went to go kill himself.

Although XF's inability to kill stuff is rather inconsistent with everything he does supposedly being unblockable, or heaven shaking, or so on.

[wkeej]

what about the when XLN got rape by the toaist monk and the Tao sect found out about it

yes, i am also thinking of non-fighting scene too. how's about the scene when zm did a commando somersault in the peasant's home. maybe it's not in the novel.

[PJ]

Hi Hank,

1) XF's scuffle with a tiger
We're aware that the likes of Huang Yaoshi and Ouyang Feng are able to put horses to rest with a mere single palm hit in LOCH and even Ao Bai in DOMD (despite no martial arts training) can kill a mad bull with a simple fist. However, one of the Tianlong 4 Greats namely Xiao Feng (who's martial arts are at 伯仲之間 with Guo Jing and Yang Guo etc based on general consensus) could not even slaughter a tiger with not 1 but 2 palm hits, 70% and 80% strength dealt respectively. Was his Xianglong Zhang really worthy of praise from Jinyong's "Golden Mouth"?

Where was this? I must know.

[shen long]

But of course the public MRF vs DY spectacle was probably the most humiliating possible incident. Especially after XF throws him to the ground after it's all over. He probably thought he and his entire house were a joke now as he went to go kill himself.

yeah that has to be the most humiliating fight, I m surprised its not in the poll. Btw the incident on my sig can be one of them

[Black Night Sea]

Hi Hank,



Where was this? I must know.

It's the chapter right after he blasted Ah Zi into oblivion.

The Murong Fu vs blindfolded Duan Yu incident was sorta behind closed doors, but for heaven's sake, MRF had been training martial arts for his entire life and had a weapon and couldn't hit a blindfolded kid with no real skills.

Pretty certain DY was using LBWB when he was evading from MRF's sword slashes which is exactly what he did to 3rd Evil Yuelaosan previously - blindfolded too - when he was disguised as MRF.

IMO, you can't really pick on MRF's and 3rd Evil's skills here, it's probably more to do with the brilliant steps of LBWB. But that's not to say it can certainly avoid a whole flurry of palm winds by XF and the like.

[PJ]

Some of those, I don't consider them embarassments at all. He Zudo not beating the young Zhang Guan Bo in "10" moves is hardly an embarassment. Judging from the 2nd edition, Zhang Guan Bo would've been easily defeated if the fight went beyond 10 moves. Still, lasting 10 moves against He Zudo at 16 is quite impressive.

Well, it is stated that He Zudao was hundreds of times superior to young Zhang Junbao in the field of martial arts. Given this fact, in my opinion He should have been able to easily defeat Zhang in my opinion, if he would have chosen his 10 stances more wisely.

In DGSD, Duan Yu also had more internal energy than Murong Fu. Yet it was stated that if they were to compete "normally" (using their maximum skills), Duan Yu would be killed by the second stance.

Wuse not being able to see through Gwok Seung's martial arts origins again is not an embarssment. How many people during GS's era had access to so many great fighters and to so many great kung fu types. There are very few so Wuse not being able to recognize Gwok Seung's moves is totally understandable.

Not recognizing Guo Xiang's martial arts background in 10 stances is forgivable, but not defeating her in the said amount of time is a bit embarrassing in my opinion.

yeah that has to be the most humiliating fight, I m surprised its not in the poll. Btw the incident on my sig can be one of them

I did not put it in the poll because, as stated in my opening description, By embarrassing, what I mean is that one of the combatants was not performing as well as you'd expect. Well, Murong Fu had no chance against a 6MSJ-blasting Duan Yu, and we/I knew that. The narrator also explained that he would not have been grabbed by Xiao Feng in one move in a normal situation; however since MRF was directing his full attention to Duan Yu in a suicidal move, anyone could have killed him that time.

[Zhuge Liang]

XF not killing Ah Zhu instantly i don't think is an embarassment. I think it was because he was holding back to a certain extent due to his good nature and recent time together with Duan Zhengchuan.