Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[WuxiaMaster]

Add some remarks and additional characters:

LV 90: Xu Zhu (TL) – Internal at LV100. Held back by weak combat ability.
LV 85: Duan Yu (TL) – Assume working Liu Mai Shen Jian. Held by back weak combat ability.
LV 80: Duan Yu (TL), at Shaolin Meet – Assume functional Liu Mai Shen Jian. Held back by weak combat ability.
LV 70: Kurong (TL)
LV 48: Ding Mian (XA)

[WuxiaMaster]

Our main characters progression through time:

LV 22: Guo Jing, Huang Rong (LO) - When they first met each other.
LV 34: Guo Jing (LO) - After Hong Qi Gong taught him 15 Dragon Palms.
LV 40: Guo Jing (LO) - Right after learning full set of 18 Dragon Palms.
LV 46: Guo Jing (LO) - After learning from Zhou Botong at Peach Blossom Island.
LV 58: Guo Jing (LO) - After enlightened by Great Dipper during Begger's Meet.
LV 65: Guo Jing (LO) - At the end of LOCH.
LV 76: Guo Jing (RO) - Pre 16 Years.

LV 22: Yang Guo (RO) - When Li Mo Chou invade the Tomb
LV 32: Yang Guo (RO) - When he left Mt.Zhongnan after mastering Jade Maiden Sutra (Before Mt. Hua)
LV 38: Yang Guo (RO) - At Martial Arts Meet
LV 44: Yang Guo (RO) - Post Golden Wheel Monk Advice, before losing his arm
LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.
LV 80: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword.

LV 25: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - At start of novel <--- this might be too high, looking at YG/GJ.
LV 69: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - VS Sword-Using Opponents Only. LV60 VS Non Sword-Using Opponents. See FAQ.

LV 68: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - At battle against 6 righteous sects on Bright Peak.
LV 77: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - He frequently performed below this LV in the novel.

[Western Eccentric]

Our main characters progression through time:

LV 22: Guo Jing, Huang Rong (LO) - When they first met each other.
LV 34: Guo Jing (LO) - After Hong Qi Gong taught him 15 Dragon Palms.
LV 40: Guo Jing (LO) - Right after learning full set of 18 Dragon Palms.
LV 46: Guo Jing (LO) - After learning from Zhou Botong at Peach Blossom Island.
LV 58: Guo Jing (LO) - After enlightened by Great Dipper during Begger's Meet.
LV 65: Guo Jing (LO) - At the end of LOCH.
LV 76: Guo Jing (RO) - Pre 16 Years.

LV 22: Yang Guo (RO) - When Li Mo Chou invade the Tomb
LV 32: Yang Guo (RO) - When he left Mt.Zhongnan after mastering Jade Maiden Sutra (Before Mt. Hua)
LV 38: Yang Guo (RO) - At Martial Arts Meet
LV 44: Yang Guo (RO) - Post Golden Wheel Monk Advice, before losing his arm
LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.
LV 80: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword.

LV 25: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - At start of novel <--- this might be too high, looking at YG/GJ.
LV 69: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - VS Sword-Using Opponents Only. LV60 VS Non Sword-Using Opponents. See FAQ.

LV 68: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - At battle against 6 righteous sects on Bright Peak.
LV 77: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - He frequently performed below this LV in the novel.

Guo Jing
Lv 77 Pre 16 years/Mid ROCH

Yang Guo
Lv 45 Post Jinlun Advice/using Hero Sword
Lv 72 Pre 16 years Heavy Sword Yang Guo
Lv 75 Wooden Sword Yang Guo/after 6 years ocean training

Zhang Wuji
Lv 68 at Brightness Peak Battle
Lv 70 after Taichi Lesson
Lv 72 after Persian Martial Art Lesson
Lv 75 end HSDS

By the way why Kurong ranks so high🤔

[Polar-kun]

By the way why Kurong ranks so high🤔

DZM is 65 and that was before joining Celestial Monastery / learning basic LMSJ. He was the most junior out of all monks while Kurong is a generation older and is the 2nd best LMSJ user after DY. So he should logically be at least 1-cut above DZM unless proven otherwise.

[Polar-kun]

To reinforce it, JMZ pointed out in Shaolin that their MA display was inferior to the Dali Monastery. Not sure if this remark still exists in the later editions or not.

[played0ut]

LV 80: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword. [Happy State: -1LV, Sorrow State: +1LV]

LV 80: Guo Jing (RO) - Post 16 Years. Speculation.
LV 80: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation. Stronger than Ren Wo Xing. Lower limit LV75, upper limit unknown.
LV 80: Lin Yuan Tu (XA) - Speculation. He can range from LV75 to LV85.

LV 78: Wang Chong Yang (LO) – It is logically impossible for him to be at this LV at the time of his death. He is placed here because it is always the Author Intention for him to be slightly above the 4 Greats at all point of time.

LV 77: Zhou Botong (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)
LV 77: Zhang San Feng (YT) - Held back largely by his old age.
LV 77: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - He frequently performed below this LV in the novel.

LV 76: Guo Jing (RO) - Pre 16 Years.


Level 75 （绝顶高手）- The "4 Greats" Level.

LV 75: East Heretic, Huang Yao Shi (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 75: South Emperor, Yideng (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 75: West Venom, Ouyang Feng (RO)
LV 75: North Beggar, Hong Qi Gong (RO)
LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.

Wang Chong Yang should at least by lvl 80 Speculation wise, if not 81-82.

-WCY beat the greats after 7 days and nights.
-10 years later, ZBT truly believes WCY would subdue them in half a day.

Zhou Botong added, “In terms of energy exertion, your master Hong Qigong’s
martial arts are on the external side of the spectrum. Even though I know
Quanzhen Sect’s martial arts, I am not his match. But I am afraid that once you
reach certain level of external type martial arts you cannot go much higher. Not
so with the internal type of martial arts, the type that my martial brother
practiced. The time when my martial brother won the title ‘Number One in the
Martial Arts World’ he was not just lucky. If he was still alive today and with the
additional ten years of training, if he again fought Eastern Heretic, Western
Poison and the others, I believe he would probably only need half a day, not
seven whole days and nights, to subdue them.”

ZBT being martial arts obsessive and being logical in his explanation-- it is very unlikely that it was hyperbole. With that, you can infer that WCY would be CEARLY higher level than the greats, and according to this chart, 5 pts higher.

-ZBT says he works extremely hard to improve, while WCY is a prodigious martial artist and improves in martial arts easily.

“The Quanzhen Sect Master Wang, how did he become both a Taoist saint and a
martial arts master?” Guo Jing asked.
“His natural talent was that incredible. He was able to master martial arts quite
easily, while I had to practice hard and diligently.” Zhou Botong answered.
“Where were

ZBT hasn't even learned WCY's more fearsome martial arts yet.


-Jin Yong has stated in the novel multiple times that WCY is exceptionally talented and masters martial arts easily, while showing how much work YG, GJ, and even ZBT works to improve.

Therefore we can presume WCY would at LEAST be a few points higher than ZBT if he were alive and still practicing. And considering how WCY would presumably cleanly beat the greats even more quickly now, he should at least be level 80.

[Western Eccentric]

Wang Chong Yang should at least by lvl 80 Speculation wise, if not 81-82.

-WCY beat the greats after 7 days and nights.
-10 years later, ZBT truly believes WCY would subdue them in half a day.

Zhou Botong added, “In terms of energy exertion, your master Hong Qigong’s
martial arts are on the external side of the spectrum. Even though I know
Quanzhen Sect’s martial arts, I am not his match. But I am afraid that once you
reach certain level of external type martial arts you cannot go much higher. Not
so with the internal type of martial arts, the type that my martial brother
practiced. The time when my martial brother won the title ‘Number One in the
Martial Arts World’ he was not just lucky. If he was still alive today and with the
additional ten years of training, if he again fought Eastern Heretic, Western
Poison and the others, I believe he would probably only need half a day, not
seven whole days and nights, to subdue them.”

ZBT being martial arts obsessive and being logical in his explanation-- it is very unlikely that it was hyperbole. With that, you can infer that WCY would be CEARLY higher level than the greats, and according to this chart, 5 pts higher.

-ZBT says he works extremely hard to improve, while WCY is a prodigious martial artist and improves in martial arts easily.

“The Quanzhen Sect Master Wang, how did he become both a Taoist saint and a
martial arts master?” Guo Jing asked.
“His natural talent was that incredible. He was able to master martial arts quite
easily, while I had to practice hard and diligently.” Zhou Botong answered.
“Where were

ZBT hasn't even learned WCY's more fearsome martial arts yet.


-Jin Yong has stated in the novel multiple times that WCY is exceptionally talented and masters martial arts easily, while showing how much work YG, GJ, and even ZBT works to improve.

Therefore we can presume WCY would at LEAST be a few points higher than ZBT if he were alive and still practicing. And considering how WCY would presumably cleanly beat the greats even more quickly now, he should at least be level 80.

Just My humble opinion..
Pre LOCH/1st Huashan Meeting
Lv 70 Wang Chongyang
Lin Chaoying
Lv 65 Yideng
Hong Qigong
Ouyang Feng
Huang Yaoshi

End LOCH/2nd Huashan Meeting
Lv 75 Wang Chongyang (after Yiyang Zhi Lesson - arguably)
Lv 78 Wang Chongyang (after 9 Yin Lesson/before his death - arguably)
Lv 72 Zhou Botong
Ouyang Feng
Lv 70 Huang Yaoshi
Hong Qigong
Yideng
Lv 65 Guo Jing

Yeahhh if we see how easily "insane" Ouyang Feng defeat Guo Jing at 2nd Huashan Meeting (Lv 72 vs Lv 65) I'am agree with you that Wang can defeat the other Greats in half a day (Lv 78 vs Lv 70)

[Western Eccentric]

Also at ROCH Lao Wantong said if Wang Chongyang still live he only need 10 strokes to defeat post 16 years Jinlun while Yang Guo at his "sad" mode only need 4 strokes !!!!
So if we use post 16 years Jinlun as a "benchmark" we can consider that Yang Guo at least a half level better than Wang Chongyang..

[played0ut]

Yeahhh if we see how easily "insane" Ouyang Feng defeat Guo Jing at 2nd Huashan Meeting (Lv 72 vs Lv 65) I'am agree with you that Wang can defeat the other Greats in half a day (Lv 78 vs Lv 70)

He would have to be 5+ levels above them according to the first post on level differences, and prob better than ZBT at least marginally.

That means if greats are lvl 75, WCY logically and reasonably needs to be lvl 80, even if you ignore all my other good points in my last post.

[played0ut]

Also at ROCH Lao Wantong said if Wang Chongyang still live he only need 10 strokes to defeat post 16 years Jinlun while Yang Guo at his "sad" mode only need 4 strokes !!!!
So if we use post 16 years Jinlun as a "benchmark" we can consider that Yang Guo at least a half level better than Wang Chongyang..

I think this time was more hyperbole. ZBT was agitated and wasn't explaining calmly and logically, unlike when explaining to GJ how WCY would be far stronger than before.

[Western Eccentric]

I think this time was more hyperbole. ZBT was agitated and wasn't explaining calmly and logically, unlike when explaining to GJ how WCY would be far stronger than before.

Yeahhh you're right but Zhou Botong makes this comment to Guo Jing at LOCH that also mean he refer to LOCH Greats (Lv 70s) not ROCH Greats (Lv 75s) so I think Lv 78 for Wang Chongyang is "fair" if we use post 16 years Jinlun Fawang at ROCH as a "benchmark"..

[played0ut]

Yeahhh you're right but Zhou Botong makes this comment to Guo Jing at LOCH that also mean he refer to LOCH Greats (Lv 70s) not ROCH Greats (Lv 75s) so I think Lv 78 for Wang Chongyang is "fair" if we use post 16 years Jinlun Fawang at ROCH as a "benchmark"..

Not exactly. It's clear that his "pace" of learning is faster than the greats.


For example:

Greats enjoy + 5 levels in 10 years.
WCY enjoy + 7 in 10 years.


That means after 20 years,
Greats : +10
WCY : + 14


Obviously there are laws of diminishing returns, and the stronger you are, the harder it is to improve.



Now note:

1st Huashan tournament.

If greats are at lvl 60, WCY is 64-65 (After 7 days and nights, he manages to subdue them).


If after 10 years, and WCY can subdue them in under half a day accd. to ZBT, then

Greats: lvl 70
WCY: lvl 75



There are 2 CONSTANTS:
1) WCY improves at faster pace than the greats (in same amount of time, if greats improve 5 lvls, WCY improves AT LEAST 6 lvls)
2) WCY can definitely subdue them, and relatively quickly (5 levels above at least).

2, 3 LV Difference – There are concrete or acknowledged evidence that A is stronger than B, but the difference is still extremely narrow. A would probably win, but only after an extremely long and arduous battle (possibly >1000+ exchange). It would take a lot out of A (exhausting all his energy/stamina) to win this battle.

Example: ZBT vs Greats

5 LV Difference - The difference is wide enough now that A would most definitely win, provided A fight seriously and not let down his guard. B can give a very good challenge.

Therefore, that means at the end of ROCH, ALREADY being able to 'quickly' subdue them (5 lvls above), AND ALSO outpacing them in training over decades,

WCY is AT LEAST lvl 80, if not higher. 81-82 is fair.

[Western Eccentric]

Not exactly. It's clear that his "pace" of learning is faster than the greats.


For example:

Greats enjoy + 5 levels in 10 years.
WCY enjoy + 7 in 10 years.


That means after 20 years,
Greats : +10
WCY : + 14


Obviously there are laws of diminishing returns, and the stronger you are, the harder it is to improve.



Now note:

1st Huashan tournament.

If greats are at lvl 60, WCY is 64-65 (After 7 days and nights, he manages to subdue them).


If after 10 years, and WCY can subdue them in under half a day accd. to ZBT, then

Greats: lvl 70
WCY: lvl 75



There are 2 CONSTANTS:
1) WCY improves at faster pace than the greats (in same amount of time, if greats improve 5 lvls, WCY improves AT LEAST 6 lvls)
2) WCY can definitely subdue them, and relatively quickly (5 levels above at least).




Therefore, that means at the end of ROCH, ALREADY being able to 'quickly' subdue them (5 lvls above), AND ALSO outpacing them in training over decades,

WCY is AT LEAST lvl 80, if not higher. 81-82 is fair.

Yeahhh but you also said that Wang Chongyang can defeat post 16 years Jinlun Fawang (comment by Zhou Botong) in 10 moves as a "hyperbole" or perhaps "sarcasm" that's mean Wang Chongyang "true level" only a half better than the Old Greats (Lv 75) and Zhou Botong/Jinlun (Lv 77) and quite impossible higher than Lv 80 coz as we know Yang Guo only at Lv 80 though he can crush Jinlun in 4 strokes when he got sad so how can Wang Chongyang's level higher than Yang Guo if he need 10 strokes to defeat Jinlun (if what Zhou said is "true") 😀😀😀😀

[Snafu3721]

Summarizing the above on WCY:

I think ZBT's assumptions is correct to a certain degree based on what he witness was WCY's developmental progression.

He has made an observation that it was very difficult to break the plateau of external techniques improvement once you reach "Greats technique" level. Because at Greats Lvl technique-- the efficiency and usage, utilization, and effectiveness of a person's internal energy should be at Max. There isn't much to improve on. There exist only very few legendary tier techniques that I think can be limitless.

So it is true that in the end, I believe it comes down to Internal cultivation and martial theory

Given that WCY actually had absorbed the essence of 9-yin. His pace of internal progression and martial theory should've all advanced greatly relative the the original 4 Greats. In fact, ZBT most likely believed that WCY would've became the strongest ROCH Great if he had lived to the end of ROCH novel. Obviously, through plot twists, many of the original Greats got pieces of the 9-yin anyways.

Also, I have always believed that ROCH Greats were much more superior to their LOCH counterparts. (which is always one of my points of contention with SPW and DFBB's ranking).

So I think if we're trying to rank WCY
he should have 2 categories: "LOCH WCY" and "potential ROCH WCY if he didn't die"
But to be honest, I think some of the rankings we've included are a bit redundant and not necessary. We could just leave WCY at his prime

[CC]

I think we should leave potential levels if characters lived to 101 years out of this.

Or that would allow all those younger ones like ZWJ,XF,LHC,DY,SPT and XZ to reach level 100.

[Western Eccentric]

I think we should leave potential levels if characters lived to 101 years out of this.

Or that would allow all those younger ones like ZWJ,XF,LHC,DY,SPT and XZ to reach level 100.

Agree with you..

[WuxiaMaster]

Barring rare exception (e.g speculating Guo Xiang LV at the time of her death), this chart doesn't rate or take into account the potential of characters at all.

For WCY, there is a big paradox - it is just illogical for him to be stronger than ROCH Greats when he was alive since the greats have improved tremendously since 1st Mt Hua. ZBT comment is definitely exaggeration.

[Western Eccentric]

Barring rare exception (e.g speculating Guo Xiang LV at the time of her death), this chart doesn't rate or take into account the potential of characters at all.

For WCY, there is a big paradox - it is just illogical for him to be stronger than ROCH Greats when he was alive since the greats have improved tremendously since 1st Mt Hua. ZBT comment is definitely exaggeration.

But I'am quite doubt that Guo Xiang stronger than Lin Chaoying (at her prime)..

[Western Eccentric]

So where should we place Wang Chongyang "at his prime"..
Lv 70
Lv 72
Lv 75
Since Lin Chaoying at Lv 70 Wang Chongyang at least Lv 72 IMHO after Yiyang Zhi/9 Yin "lesson"

[WuxiaMaster]

So where should we place Wang Chongyang "at his prime"..
Lv 70
Lv 72
Lv 75
Since Lin Chaoying at Lv 70 Wang Chongyang at least Lv 72 IMHO after Yiyang Zhi/9 Yin "lesson"

If we really want to rate WCY at the time of his death, we need to guess the 4 Greats LV during the first Mt Hua. (LV70 for LCY was based on the time of her death)

One interesting note, Huang Yao Shi was only around LV45 at age 30. :P