Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[tape]

He wasn't weaker (or he wouldn't have won at all); he just needed to be at full strength to actually finish the fight.

I think there's just some confusion on how the levels are written, but any version of post 16 Yang Guo is stronger than GWM. When he fought and was handily winning against GWM, he should have been in his happiest (and thus weakest?) state, and when his Sad Palms were actually at full strength he just blew him out the water.

[a_tumiwa]

Not sure Xia Xueyi is above Yuan Chengzhi. I could be wrong but I thought it was stated that the Golden Snake Sword art is inferior to Huashan art. I also seem to recall that it was implied (if not stated) that Yuan Chengzhi by the first part of the novel already reached, if not surpassed, Xia Xueyi's level. No?

may i ask, did xia xueyi is the one who invented golden snake swordplay martial arts?

[WuxiaMaster]

I only read XKX once and my memories of it are a bit hazy, but the sects that got wiped out were generally on the smaller side right?

Small sects are really, really weak if any expert decides to wipe them out -- take Xie Xun thrashing all the top experts on Wanpan Island effortlessly.

Maybe instead of comparing small sects directly against Z3L4, it's better to use XYK as the bridge. Xie Xun and ZWJ can both thrash small sects effortlessly, and when the gap is too big it's not really helpful.

I would present a few points to support that Xie Yan Ke (XYK) is not that weak (Say, less than LV50)

1. His "xuan-tie crests" are sought after heavily by the wulin. It's almost like the "heavenly sword dragon sabre" of Xia Ke Xing. Why? Because the holder can ask him for any favor. And the entire Wulin knows he has the capability to deliver what no one else can. This shows that his LV is recognized to be far above everyone.

2. He also prove it the few times he fought. My memory is hazy, but I think he pretty much take out the entire xue shan pai (the NUMBER 1 sect in Xia Ke Xing alongside Chang Le Bang)，and thrash guys like Bai Wan Jian (top expert in xue shan pai)

I think there's no arguing that he is no.1 (or at least in the no.1 tier) in mainland Wulin. Would a LV40 guy be no.1 tier in mainland wulin? Would the whole wulin fight over a piece of metal to seek favor from a LV40 guy? I find that kind of hard to accept. The general wulin must be absolute thrash for that to be true.

[Ken Cheng]

I think there's just some confusion on how the levels are written, but any version of post 16 Yang Guo is stronger than GWM. When he fought and was handily winning against GWM, he should have been in his happiest (and thus weakest?) state, and when his Sad Palms were actually at full strength he just blew him out the water.

Even when it's a Great vs. a Great, the moment of victory comes down to one strike in the right spot at the right time.

[CancerLuna]

2. He also prove it the few times he fought. My memory is hazy, but I think he pretty much take out the entire xue shan pai (the NUMBER 1 sect in Xia Ke Xing alongside Chang Le Bang)，and thrash guys like Bai Wan Jian (top expert in xue shan pai)

I think there's no arguing that he is no.1 (or at least in the no.1 tier) in mainland Wulin. Would a LV40 guy be no.1 tier in mainland wulin? Would the whole wulin fight over a piece of metal to seek favor from a LV40 guy? I find that kind of hard to accept. The general wulin must be absolute thrash for that to be true.

I think it's not unreasonable to say he's #1 in mainland but we see through various books, being #1 in mainland can be somewhat 'easy' if a 'freak of nature' level character doesn't show up.

In HSDS, imagine if ZWJ didn't show up and ZSF dies, there's a new #1 but they are NOWHERE near them. The next closest are the Du Monks and IMO, they are many many levels below ZWJ/ZSF and I'd say the Du Monks themselves are themselves relatively strong/freak of nature level characters relatively to 'mainland' fighters cross novels. Who is after the Du Monks? It kinda keeps going down.

I just think the mainland 'plateau' is actually really really low and someone being #1 mainland doesn't really impress me. In those eras, outliers like DFBB (1v3), ZSF/ZWJ in HSDS are just really damn strong.

The underlying assumption with this reasoning, is that DGSD and LOCH/ROCH just had a ridiculous concentration of god-like fighters even cross novels.

[a_tumiwa]

I just think the mainland 'plateau' is actually really really low and someone being #1 mainland doesn't really impress me. In those eras, outliers like DFBB (1v3), ZSF/ZWJ in HSDS are just really damn strong.

speaking of DFBB and sunflower manual, in the novel (and what chapter), was there any explanation about the purpose of castration ?

[Ken Cheng]

To be more precise. GWM felt he was going to lose after about 200 stances.

Don't forget we're talking about the Golden Wheel Monk here. When does that baldy NOT think he's going to lose? People far, far weaker than Yeung Gor have been known to make him panic!

[tape]

Don't forget we're talking about the Golden Wheel Monk, here. When does that baldy NOT think he's going to lose? People far, far weaker than Yeung Gor have been known to make him panic!

Pre-16 YG beat all the other mercenaries in one blow, and he wasn't phased by it and took him on. YG then proceeded to cut down all his wheels and he still wasn't afraid until he was actually beat.

Post-16 Years his goal was to avenge his loss against Yang Guo and came back to China because his greatest wish was to fight him.

He gladly took on ZBT and Yideng individually, and when the other Greats ganged up on him he admitted defeat and threw down his weapons to honorably die.

There's a narrative that he's a coward or mentally weak but it's really not true and obviously only exists because he is the antagonist.

[WuxiaMaster]

I think it's not unreasonable to say he's #1 in mainland but we see through various books, being #1 in mainland can be somewhat 'easy' if a 'freak of nature' level character doesn't show up.

I just think the mainland 'plateau' is actually really really low and someone being #1 mainland doesn't really impress me. In those eras, outliers like DFBB (1v3), ZSF/ZWJ in HSDS are just really damn strong.

I don't think it is "that easy". For example, in SPW, the "general wulin" can be considered the 5 mountain sects less Songshan. How easy is it for ONE person to go up to any of the mountain and massacre the entire sect? The head of these sects are already near the LV40 range, so IMO you have to be at least a good 15 levels higher to do that.

The "general" wulin" in HSDS is around the Kongdong Elders, Kunlun Sect Leader LV. Individually, White Eagle is significantly stronger than them all, but even he tired out after taking on a couple of them continuously.

My point is, while you certainly don't need to be Great or Sub-Great LV, it is not that easy to single-handedly eliminate entire sects either.

[tape]

Are there any specific fights you can refer me to where Z3L4 (love the acronym btw) fight against the stronger fighters or are generally around when top fights occur?

Massacring smaller sects seems to be very subjective and it seems you rate it a bit higher than I do.

Also, I was under the impression a lot of the sects spoken about were actually 3rd/4th tier sects much weaker than Shaolin/Wudang but the story focused around them so it seemed they were bigger than they were. Were the eliminated sects actually close to major sects in terms of power? My reasoning is that the Lords personally came for the major sects, but sent disciples for the others so they should be much weaker.

I think the sects you mention are actually on the high end of wulin since they are top 10 sects generally. Z3L4 to my memory destroyed quite a few sects and in order for that to be true, they all couldn't have been top 10.

[a_tumiwa]

wanna ask a little about ode to gallantry

in 2017 tv series, Zhang Shan challenge Xia Yanke and beat him , did the novel have this kind of story?
and also shi po tian drank energy-drink (liquor?) of yin (from zhang shan) and yang (from li si), and he gain a strong power benefit from those . i think this one is also not exist in novel right?

[PJ]

in 2017 tv series, Zhang Shan challenge Xia Yanke and beat him , did the novel have this kind of story?

No.
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[WuxiaMaster]

No.
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Xie Yan Ke is super afraid of meeting anyone from the Island.

[Snafu3721]

I don't think it is "that easy". For example, in SPW, the "general wulin" can be considered the 5 mountain sects less Songshan. How easy is it for ONE person to go up to any of the mountain and massacre the entire sect? The head of these sects are already near the LV40 range, so IMO you have to be at least a good 15 levels higher to do that.

The "general" wulin" in HSDS is around the Kongdong Elders, Kunlun Sect Leader LV. Individually, White Eagle is significantly stronger than them all, but even he tired out after taking on a couple of them continuously.

My point is, while you certainly don't need to be Great or Sub-Great LV, it is not that easy to single-handedly eliminate entire sects either.

I'm with Tape on this one

It's very subjective. Many times small sects are completely sacrificed to build up a character, that you later find out is actually a 1-hit-KO if they faced a Greats lvl opponent.

For example, XX during his first appearance. The lion roar basically took out many "small sects"
QQJ taking out a small battalion of soldiers in LOCH (which can be argued is stronger than some small sects).
DGSD- depending on sect, I think even Evil #3 could wipe an entire one out... not to mention Evil #1

I guess it depends on what you consider small sect. I think there are actually Greats lvl sects Wudang with ZSF, Chuan Zhen with WCY, Shaolin in general. Then you have large powerful sects which would actually be SPW's 5 swords and HSDS Kunlun. They are definitely not "average wulin" sects

[a_tumiwa]

CMIIW, i think Shaolin and Wudang sect appear on Ode To gallantry?
the head of those 2 sects had an love affair with Shi XiaoCui based on 2017 tv series,
i dont know if this story exist in novel

[PJ]

CMIIW, i think Shaolin and Wudang sect appear on Ode To gallantry?
the head of those 2 sects had an love affair with Shi XiaoCui based on 2017 tv series,
i dont know if this story exist in novel

The TV writers are quite creative. Miaodi and Yucha appeared for about 10 seconds in the novel.

[CC]

The TV writers are quite creative. Miaodi and Yucha appeared for about 10 seconds in the novel.

Pffft, that's nothing compared to what YOU would do if you were given the helm.

[PJ]

I'd like to think I would stick faithfully to the source material

[CC]

I'd like to think I would stick faithfully to the source material

Oh, faithfully to source material.

I'd vote you to direct Gu Long stories then.

Good luck passing the mainland censors.

[Western Eccentric]

I think pre HIS Yang Guo ranks to low🤔🤔🤔🤔
It's true he is no match for 3 Mongolian Warriors or even Qiu Chuji but after having Jinlun Fawang "advise" he is without doubt stronger than Daerba/Huodu (lv 42) so he should be at least at lv 45..