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Thread: 5 best fighters of jinyong?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    I don't even get what you're talking about anymore.

    I didn't make it a bigger deal, I explained why shortsight and I found you rude.

    You did not present examples as I asked. What are multiple accusations?

    You've deviated from the topic of top 5 JY characters long time ago just by bringing in XF/YG/DY/XZ. What's more is that Ah Qing achieved and exceeded of what they achieved. I did make it clear YG thought he had no chance while it took TWO of the most powerful protagonists DY and XZ to capture the Liao king. Ah Qing did it with less effort.

    Now don't do into "so back to the topic" with your claims of YG/XF/DY/XZ disputed ('evidence' you claimed in the first place to deny Ah Qing). Those 'evidence' you claimed to be conclusive are wrong.

    Ah Qing may well have a claim of top 5 JY characters or not, I really don't care. She's from a lesser known work and little comparability. It's just your ignorant persistence and bad forum etiquette that's annoying me. Okay you can say I've insulted you now. And that's what it is since my last post of reasoning obviously fell flat.
    Then you obviously did not read my posts correctly or carefully.

    The other guy brought up the idea that Ah Qin was among the top 5, and so I brought up evidences to counter him. What's wrong with that?

    And Don't tell me you " really don't care." if you don't care, then don't post. I've countered every single one of your arguments, and all you manage to come up with is :" I really don't care, and , your ignorant persistence and bad forum etiquette is bugging me...."

    You also just admitted that you aren't familiar with the works of Ah Qin. Your just getting frustrated because I've actually provided evidences that you can't topple. You know, its funny, because you know I'm right and you're just arguing with me just for the sake of arguing with me.....

    I've conveyed my message clearly :" Ah Qin isn't one of the 5 best fighters of Jin Yong." I don't say that because i don't like her. I say that because i can, and HAVE, named 5 people who can defeat her. Unlike you, I actually stuck to the topic, and I actually have a point in my words.
    Last edited by jackattack; 03-06-10 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #62
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    Look.

    Original post was about Ah Qing's prowess in confronting the 2000 soldiers easily.

    Then you said, that's nothing to be amazed with about, YG/XF/XZ/DY did better (your so-called evidence).

    But they did not. I already showed you why (#58).

    What's more to say? What was your counter?

    In your last post, you said, "So you do realize now that Ah Qin and Yang Guo and Duan Yu and Xu Zhu and Xiao Feng achieved the same thing? Awesome!" What a change from "no the guys did better".

    For Ah Qing to do better than DY and XZ combined, that's cause to disuss her possible inclusion in top 5. I'm not even going to go into your own list of top 5, which you found conclusive.

    Show evidence to me because you did not present them anywhere. Stop throwing these imaginary 'counters' around when you did not present anything. If you want to speak about evidence, write them out clearly, quote boxes or " " preferred.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Look.

    Original post was about Ah Qing's prowess in confronting the 2000 soldiers easily.

    Then you said, that's nothing to be amazed with about, YG/XF/XZ/DY did better (your so-called evidence).

    But they did not. I already showed you why (#58).

    What's more to say? What was your counter?

    In your last post, you said, "So you do realize now that Ah Qin and Yang Guo and Duan Yu and Xu Zhu and Xiao Feng achieved the same thing? Awesome!" What a change from "no the guys did better".

    For Ah Qing to do better than DY and XZ combined, that's cause to disuss her possible inclusion in top 5. I'm not even going to go into your own list of top 5, which you found conclusive.

    Show evidence to me because you did not present them anywhere. Stop throwing these imaginary 'counters' around when you did not present anything. If you want to speak about evidence, write them out clearly, quote boxes or " " preferred.
    I already showed you again and again, and explained to you again and again, that Ah Qin DID NOT " counter 2000 soldiers easily."

    And no, the original post was not about ah qin confronting 2000 soldiers. I only joined the discussion because Bliss claimed it would take Sweeper Monk to defeat Ah Qin, which I disagreed with. Stop trying to twist the facts.

    And then I explained that Yang Guo and Duan Yu and Xu Zhu did better. And no you did not show me why not.

    As I have already explained, when Ah QIn went past those guards, the guards were SCATTERED because they were guarding a PALACE. When Yang Guo, Duan Yu, Xu Zhu, and Xiao Feng went after those kings, the guards were SPECIFICALLY protecting a PERSON. DO YOU UNDERSTAND????? THERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE. DON'T MISS IT!!!!!

    My last post was sarcastic, and obviously you didn't get it.

    Once more time, as I have already explained, ah qin did NOT do better than duan yu and xu zhu combined. And as I have already explained, even is she DID, she still isn't considered top 5.

    You couldn't find an argument to counter that point, so instead you said :" I'm not even going to go into your own list of top 5, which you found conclusive." See, you wouldn't go into that list because you know that you CAN'T, because you KNOW that Ah Qin is just rubbish when put next to people like Da Mo and Sweeper Monk.

    Try basing your argument on something other than utter fangirltism and accusations.

  4. #64
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    Give me evidence from the novel, or it did not happen. Are you using your personal view of "scattered vs compact"? Those 2000 soldiers were there to stop Ah Qing, not stand guard. Give me evidence that Ah Qing's 2000 troops were more scattered and easier to get past than YG/DY/XZ.

    What's the point of going into your own top 5 when you can't even face that Ah Qing did do better than DY/XZ combined? Huang Shang is the clear odd one out from your list. I highly doubt he'll be able to take on DY/XZ. That's beside the point and frankly is for another discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Give me evidence from the novel, or it did not happen. Are you using your personal view of "scattered vs compact"? Those 2000 soldiers were there to stop Ah Qing, not stand guard. Give me evidence that Ah Qing's 2000 troops were more scattered and easier to get past than YG/DY/XZ.

    What's the point of going into your own top 5 when you can't even face that Ah Qing did do better than DY/XZ combined? Huang Shang is the clear odd one out from your list. I highly doubt he'll be able to take on DY/XZ. That's beside the point and frankly is for another discussion.

    Look, I'm done with DY/XZ vs Ah Qin, ok? But, if you really want evidence, well, listen to this. When DY/XZ tried to get to the Liao Emperor, the soldiers were there to SPECIFICALLY PROTECT ONE PERSON, and they SURROUNDED HIM WITH LAYERS AND LAYERS OF HUMAN BODY. WHen Yang Guo was after the Mongolian king, the archers and cavalry where there to SPECIFICALLY PROTECT one person, and they sent rows and rows of arrows at just Yang Guo. When Xiao Feng captured the Senior Liao emperor, the soldiers were there to SPECIFICALLY PROTECT the senior emperor.

    The soldiers standing guard at the Wu palace, on the otherhand, were just standing guard of a palace that they have captured. Were they ALL trying to protect Fan Yao? NO. They were just standing guard at the main entrance or the gate, or watever, and then Ah Qin managed to get through them. If ALL 2000 soldiers were crowding around Fan Yao specifically protecting Fan Yao, it would be a whole different story.

    Anyways, why don't YOU give ME some evidence that says otherwise instead of just bombarding me with questions and purposefully ignoring all of my posts?

    Regarding your last paragraph-

    1). As I have already explained, we don't know if Ah Qin really did better than Duan Yu and Xu Zhu.

    2). Even if she did, it doesn't matter, because there are MANY that are also far better than Duan Yu and Xu Zhu.

    3). So you think Ah Qin can take on Duan Yu and Xu Zhu? Take away her sword and we don't even know if she can beat an ordinary soldier. ( There isn't even proof that she knows martial arts or any internal arts, we just know she's skilled with the sword ).

    4). Why don't you stop ignoring all my other candidates?

    Give me proof that Ah Qin can beat Dugu Qiubai, who can use a freaking grass as a sword, in a sword fight. Give me proof that Ah Qin can beat someone who has reached a stage where he doesn't even NEED a sword to fight with a sword. Give me proof, that a girl who can disarm soldiers can defeat the founder of Shao Lin- Da Mo.

    That's what I thought...... you can't.

  6. #66
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    Evidence. Show me evidence that the soldiers were scattered and hence easier to get past. The 2000 soldiers were called specifically to stop Ah Qing.

    Now,

    1) Feat-wise, Ah Qing did better than DY and XZ combined unless you can show me proof otherwise.

    2) If she did do better than DY/XZ combined, that's more than enough cause to consider her as top 5 JY characters. How much do you think Sweeper Monk is better than the two of them combined? Yet he is considered the best fighter.

    3) That analogy applies to Dugu Qiubai too. Take away his sword, yes even his wooden and no-sword sword.

    4) There's no need to prove Ah Qing is better than your self-proclaimed top 5. They have no basis at all. You denied Ah Qing's feat of charging through 2000 soldiers as beneath XF/DY/XZ/YG. I showed that's wrong. End of story.

    Again in your last post, you completely ignored my numerous calls for textual evidence. Try not to do that this time.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Evidence. Show me evidence that the soldiers were scattered and hence easier to get past. The 2000 soldiers were called specifically to stop Ah Qing.

    Now,

    1) Feat-wise, Ah Qing did better than DY and XZ combined unless you can show me proof otherwise.

    2) If she did do better than DY/XZ combined, that's more than enough cause to consider her as top 5 JY characters. How much do you think Sweeper Monk is better than the two of them combined? Yet he is considered the best fighter.

    3) That analogy applies to Dugu Qiubai too. Take away his sword, yes even his wooden and no-sword sword.

    4) There's no need to prove Ah Qing is better than your self-proclaimed top 5. They have no basis at all. You denied Ah Qing's feat of charging through 2000 soldiers as beneath XF/DY/XZ/YG. I showed that's wrong. End of story.

    Again in your last post, you completely ignored my numerous calls for textual evidence. Try not to do that this time.
    Show me evidence that the 2000 soldiers were called to specifically stop Ah Qin. Show me. That's right.... you can't.

    1). Again, even feat wise, she didn't do better than Duan Yu and Xu Zhu.

    2). First of all, just because her feats make her a match for Duan Yu and Xu Zhu's feats, that does not mean she can match them in a fight. Second of all, Sweeper Monk would annihilate Duan Yu and Xu Zhu without much effort, similar to what he did to Xiao Feng, Xiao Yuan Shan, Mo Rongbo, Mo rongfu, and Jiu Muzhi.

    3). Dugu Qiubai had incredible internal energy, because that is needed when he wielded the Heavy Iron Sword. As far as we know, we don't even know if Ah Qin had ANY internal energy at all.

    Oh and then your next claim :" Take away his sword, yes even his wooden and no-sword sword." is just plain stupid. How do you take away a "no-sword sword"???? Perhaps you can show me?

    4). Now you're claiming Da Mo and Dugu Qiubai have no basis at all. Seriously now I really think I'm wasting my time here.

    Read your own post again, and laugh at your own failure.

  8. #68
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    Did you even read Yue Nujian? You asking for evidence of 2000 soldiers really diminishes your case. Here it is anyway

    范蠡,范蠡!我要杀了你的西施,她逃不了的!

    阿青的声音忽东忽西,在宫墙外传进来。

    范蠡定了定神,说道:我要去见见这人。轻轻放脱了西施的手,快步向宫门走去。

    范蠡走到宫门之外,月光铺地,一眼望去,不见有人,朗声说道:阿青姑娘,请你过
    来,我有话说。四下里寂静无声。范蠡又道:阿青姑娘,多时不见,你可好么?可是
    仍然不闻回答。范蠡等了良久,始终不见阿青现身。

    他低声吩咐卫士,立即调来一千名甲士、一千名剑士,在馆娃宫前后守卫。
    ...

    蓦地里宫门外响起了一阵吆喝声,跟着呛啷郎、呛啷朗响声不绝,那是兵刃落地之声。
    这声音从宫门外直响进来,便如一条极长的长蛇,飞快的游来,长廊上也响起了兵刃落地的
    声音。一千名甲士和一千名剑士阻挡不了阿青。

    1,2) Read above.

    3) First, tell me what is a no-sword sword if you're convinced of its existence. Then, I'll tell you how to remove that.
    I've always been critical as to what DGQB really meant in saying no-sword sword.

    4) Try not to put words in my mouth. I said your ranking of supposed top 5 is baseless.

    Again, for the third consecutive post, include textual evidence next time instead of just pulling things out of your.. brain.

  9. #69
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    Give it up, it's like arguing with the 6 Fairies of Peach valley.
    明月心跳起來,又回頭,嫣然道,你還要不要我帶上那面具?
    傅紅雪冷道,現在你臉上豈非已經戴上了個面具?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss View Post
    Give it up, it's like arguing with the 6 Fairies of Peach valley.
    lol @ this and the other Ah Qing thread...

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Did you even read Yue Nujian? You asking for evidence of 2000 soldiers really diminishes your case. Here it is anyway

    “范蠡,范蠡!我要杀了你的西施,她逃不了的!”

    阿青的声音忽东忽西,在宫墙外传进来。

    范蠡定了定神,说道:“我要去见见这人。”轻轻放脱了西施的手,快步向宫门走去。

    范蠡走到宫门之外,月光铺地,一眼望去,不见有人,朗声说道:“阿青姑娘,请你过
    来,我有话说。”四下里寂静无声。范蠡又道:“阿青姑娘,多时不见,你可好么?”可是
    仍然不闻回答。范蠡等了良久,始终不见阿青现身。

    他低声吩咐卫士,立即调来一千名甲士、一千名剑士,在馆娃宫前后守卫。
    ...

    蓦地里宫门外响起了一阵吆喝声,跟着呛啷郎、呛啷朗响声不绝,那是兵刃落地之声。
    这声音从宫门外直响进来,便如一条极长的长蛇,飞快的游来,长廊上也响起了兵刃落地的
    声音。一千名甲士和一千名剑士阻挡不了阿青。

    1,2) Read above.

    3) First, tell me what is a no-sword sword if you're convinced of its existence. Then, I'll tell you how to remove that.
    I've always been critical as to what DGQB really meant in saying no-sword sword.

    4) Try not to put words in my mouth. I said your ranking of supposed top 5 is baseless.

    Again, for the third consecutive post, include textual evidence next time instead of just pulling things out of your.. brain.
    Read your own evidence again.

    key words:

    他低声吩咐卫士,立即调来一千名甲士、一千名剑士,在馆娃宫前后守卫。

    INFRONT OF AND BEHIND THE PALACE. ( 在馆娃宫前后守卫 ) They are guarding a palace, infront of it and behind it. That is NOT the same as 300 soldiers guarding ONE PERSON by surrounding him with their own bodies.

    Try giving me evidence that Ah Qin can beat Sweeper Monk or Da Mo in a fight. Give me REAL evidence, and this time, don't harrass yourself while trying to do it. thanks. See, you can't.

    What has Ah Qin done besides get past soldiers guarding a palace? WHAT? Really, is that your ONLY argument? Tons of people have feats like that.

    Oh and by the way, the Yue Maiden Sword Technique sucks. Guo Jing's 7th teacher used it and she got her butt whooped plenty of times.

    can you read or are you only able to read in the thing you want to see?


    Last edited by jackattack; 03-07-10 at 08:48 PM.

  12. #72
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    I clicked on this thread just to see what the controversy was.

    INFRONT OF AND BEHIND THE PALACE. ( 在馆娃宫前后守卫 ) They are guarding a palace, infront of it and behind it. That is NOT the same as 300 soldiers guarding ONE PERSON by surrounding him with their own bodies.
    Actually, the structure seems pretty similar to me. One has 2000 soldiers surrounding a palace, the other has 300 soldiers surrounding a person.

    If you want to argue that Ah Qing did not encounter all 2000 soldiers because they were spread out, the same can be argued about Duan/Xuzhu.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss View Post
    Give it up, it's like arguing with the 6 Fairies of Peach valley.
    Look, Bro, I understand its hard to accept that your favorite character can be defeated, but please don't let your passion for Ah Qin cloud your judgement. I know how much you love Ah Qin and I really don't want to hurt your feelings....... I'm just trying to point out some of the misconceptions you have in your mind..... I really don't want to hurt your feelings because I know Ah Qin is your favorite........ But again, sometimes we gotta accept things for what they really are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I clicked on this thread just to see what the controversy was.



    Actually, the structure seems pretty similar to me. One has 2000 soldiers surrounding a palace, the other has 300 soldiers surrounding a person.

    If you want to argue that Ah Qing did not encounter all 2000 soldiers because they were spread out, the same can be argued about Duan/Xuzhu.
    How big is a palace? How big is a person? Which one is harder to guard?

    Ask yourself that question.

    And then ask yourself, will Da Mo or Sweeper monk have any trouble getting past 2000 guards guarding a palace?

    No.
    Last edited by jackattack; 03-07-10 at 09:05 PM.

  15. #75
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    Maybe it also has something to do with your unfriendly attitude, yelling at forum members with exclamation marks when we're all just sharing this space to put forth some trivial opinions about fiction.

    Change is not made by a newbie coming into a 10-year old establishment, putting up a holier-than-thou attitude, yelling at senior members, and sarcastically ridiculing their opinions.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    How big is a palace? How big is a person? Which one is harder to guard?

    Ask yourself that question.
    Valid point, but Jin Yong wrote that:

    一千名甲士和一千名剑士阻挡不了阿青

    2000 soldiers could not stop Ah Qing.

    I doubt Jin Yong would explicitly say that the total number of soldiers present could not stop her, if in fact Ah Qing only encountered a fraction of the soldiers. For example, the rest of them could have rushed to help as Ah Qing showed up.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss View Post
    Give it up, it's like arguing with the 6 Fairies of Peach valley.
    It's almost worst than that!

    I wonder if jackattack is a very experienced spcnet poster in troll mode who had lost a major argument in jan/feb time frame and came back with vengeance to wreck havoc ... if I'm the admin/moderator, I'll trace the IP address for more info.

    Jackattack, sorry if you think this is an insult, but you have provided quite an entertainment to the forum lately, congratulations!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Maybe it also has something to do with your unfriendly attitude, yelling at forum members with exclamation marks when we're all just sharing this space to put forth some trivial opinions about fiction.

    Change is not made by a newbie coming into a 10-year old establishment, putting up a holier-than-thou attitude, yelling at senior members, and sarcastically ridiculing their opinions.
    PJ, you may have tickled the guy more! I'm getting the popcorn, tidbits ready ... this is gonna be more interesting than 82nd Academy Awards ... the least (and most!) popular rookie poster of the month goes to ... you-know-who!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Maybe it also has something to do with your unfriendly attitude, yelling at forum members with exclamation marks when we're all just sharing this space to put forth some trivial opinions about fiction.

    Change is not made by a newbie coming into a 10-year old establishment, putting up a holier-than-thou attitude, yelling at senior members, and sarcastically ridiculing their opinions.
    How exactly did I... er... "yell"?

    If you can't counter my point then maybe you should give up trying? Calling me a newbie doesn't really change the fact that you guys have lost.....
    Last edited by jackattack; 03-07-10 at 09:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortsight View Post
    It's almost worst than that!

    I wonder if jackattack is a very experienced spcnet poster in troll mode who had lost a major argument in jan/feb time frame and came back with vengeance to wreck havoc ... if I'm the admin/moderator, I'll trace the IP address for more info.

    Jackattack, sorry if you think this is an insult, but you have provided quite an entertainment to the forum lately, congratulations!
    Ok.... were you attempting to make a joke back there? Because if that was a joke...... it wasn't very funny......
    Last edited by jackattack; 03-07-10 at 09:53 PM.

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